Q4. Total Depravity

[Pastor Ralph]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

[pickledilly]

I don't know how to improve on Pastor Ralph's explanation, which was really helpful to me. I have no delusions about the goodness of humanity, which does not mean that I don't find myself thinking more of me than I should at times.

I do believe in the total depravity of man. The human heart has been so thoroughly corrupted and corroded by sin that it is dead to the person of God, blind to the Light of truth, deaf to the Word of life. It craves only what it loves, which is the darkness of self and wickedness. Even when we come to recognize this condition and begin to desire what we are lacking, we have absolutely no ability to gain it ourselves. God demands perfection, and we are desperately flawed.

We are capable of doing "good" things, but even that ability has been degraded by the sinful soul (mind, will, and emotions) and we cannot fit the biblical definition of goodness. Yet somewhere within the heart is some point of contact for the Holy Spirit to do His work to bring conviction of sin (John 16:8) and give faith leading to righteousness (Galatians 5:5). Pastor Ralph's statement that it is a trace remnant of God's image in man sounds very reasonable. Regardless of how, it is simple truth that man cannot make himself good enough to reach God. We are restored to God ONLY because He reaches down to make us holy and morally perfect (good) through Christ.

I think humanity has always tended to believe that man is basically good. We certainly see it openly in our day, as humanism has taken such a hold in our philosophies of life. Our prideful flesh does not want to accept the flaws and incapacities of our true moral depravity. We don't want to be in need; we like self-sufficiency and control. We believe that our own goodness can be developed and will ultimately win. But Jesus said, ”No one is good except God alone.” (Mark 10:18) The only good in us is God in us.

[hanks]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24)

What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean?

Total depravity is the total lack of spiritual good and the inability to do anything good before God. Any good that existed, when we were made in God

[jabarke]

Some of us, in a way, "take pride" in admitting we are depraved. We think by saying we are wretched & depraved sinners that that puts in rare company & that makes us good now. We feel for those people that continue to delude themselves into thinking they have sin but still believe deep in their heart that they are basically good people. We usually bog down at this point, however. Not knowing the way to a true, God changed life, we resort to our own self will & human power to change into a good person. We grit our teeth & really try harder to become good christians. Growing up in a Christian home I sort of grew up under the law. I was told what was the right thing to do & what was the wrong thing to do. If I messed up I was punished. Consequently, I carry some heavy baggage that I need to get rid of in order to truly allow God's Spirit in me to change my heart. A life not driven by the fear of punishment but a life changed, from the heart out, by God's Spirit. Not by my will power or strength of character which we sometimes believe is how we become good but by God's TRANSFORMING GRACE. So often we read things & hear sermons that we need to do this or that in obedience to God & to please him & so we can look back one day & say we have run a good race. But, again, the most important part is left out which is how do we get there. I liken this to a coach giving the team a great inspiring pregame speech & the players run out fired up ready to perform but when they hit the field they suddenly realize they were not told how to run the plays that will ultimately give them the victory. Those plays are learned when we spend time with God in prayer & reading of his word & in giving ourselves daily to Him. This is how He changes our hearts & minds to feel, think & act like Him. We naturally fall more in love with Him through this process & our lives are changed by Him through this process.

[Elwood C O'Dell]

Man is born with a bent towards sin. His inner nature is defiled. This will manifest itself in outward actions at some time and in some place.

[reily]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

Total depravity: Man has no ability to contribute or add to the work of God. he also has no ability to choose Good becuase of his depraved nature. The heart is wicked None.

becuase is is decieved by the flesh, It does not know what he does not know. He may even know Gods word but it means nothing to him even it meant something he is powerless to choose right

Bible teaches that Man is born in sin and is a sinner by nature. There is nothing in him that can change him to choose good

All have sinned

[charisbarak]

Total depravity describes the human race. We were born under sin and cannot help ourselves from sinning. There is no one good, not one.

No, God's original goodness is overshadowed by our sinfulness.

Modern man thinks of everyone as basically good but God says our very hearts are wicked & unknowable by anyone, but Himself. Even babies are sinners!!

[Delivered]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24

What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words.

Total depravity is the state the heart is in of those who do not put their trust in the LORD.

Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean?

Man does understand, it is there in his heart, there is a difference between good and evil,

evil does lurk in the heart of man: This is why we must be careful what we put in our hearts, minds,

for it will be seen in our lives.

The flesh will rule only if we allow it to, it is our choice, it is called "faith" - Abraham was no longer

a man most miserable, as he put his "faith in God Almighty. It is not by God's law that man is saved

from the most miserable state he finds himself in, it is only by faith in God Almighty.

Faith in God's love, seen in His Son, Jesus took our sins on Him and died; It is by our faith we believe

God raised the Son and set Him at His right hand, therefore, giving to us God's Spirit, to help us

overcome the desires of the flesh, rooted in the heart of man.

Man is most miserable when he allows sin to win, to rule. We must feed our inner man with

God's Word, and then we will see God's original goodness, filling those areas of our hearts, with desire

to walk in obedience.

Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good?How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

Man is comfortable living in the flesh, not wanting to know God's laws. Man is blinded to their true person, as they become proud of the good deeds they do in the flesh, thinking, what a good person they are; when in reality, the bible tells us, there is no one GOOD, but God.

[Stan]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

That we are all sinners. We can't be Holy as God is Holy with out the help of Jesus and the Holy Spirit at work in our lives.

No, we have goodness in us but not rightousness even the good we do or try and do can come from sinful motives. We all want to see our selves as basically good but our good is not enough when it comes to God and our salvation. To be right with God we must have faith in Jesus nothing we docan earn us a place with Him and the Father, we will be judges for what we do in the flesh wheather good or bad Paul tells us so only through Jesus can we be seen as clean and righteous.

[JustJeff]

"Total Depravity" is evil to the core. Because of this our sinful nature reigns over God's implantation of good that is in us.

When Jesus did good virtue flowed out of Him. He expected nothing in return. With us, there are always strings attached, whether it is to feel good, get name recognition, store up treasures in heaven, etc.

Our pride refuses to allow us to see the dark side within us. We think that by helping out at the local soup kitchen once a week or by paying tithes that we are good. Nonsense. These are the types of things that we are bound to do by our faith. God's good is 24/7 and mankind refuses that much committment. We always seem to take time off, knowingly or unknowingly, to sin. We are commanded to walk as Christ walked that is, good all the time, in thought and deed.

[masika]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

Total depravity is the fallen state of man as a result of Original Sin. The doctrine of total depravity asserts that people are by nature not inclined to love God wholly with heart, mind, and strength, as God requires, but rather all are inclined to serve their own interests over those of their neighbor and to reject the rule of God. Even religion and philanthropy are destructive to the extent that these originate from a human imagination, passions, and will. Therefore, in Reformed Theology, God must predestine individuals into salvation since man is incapable of choosing God.[5]

Total depravity does not mean, however, that people are as evil as possible. Rather, it means that even the good which a person may intend is faulty in its premise, false in its motive, and weak in its implementation; and there is no mere refinement of natural capacities that can correct this condition. Thus, even acts of generosity and altruism are in fact egoist acts in disguise.[6]

Nonetheless, the doctrine teaches optimism concerning God's love for what he has made and God's ability to accomplish the ultimate good that he intends for his creation. In particular, in the process of salvation, God overcomes man's inability with his divine grace and enables men and women to choose to follow him, though the precise means of this overcoming varies between the theological systems. The differences between the solutions to the problem of total depravity revolve around the relation between divine grace and human free will

[paulcrf]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

The doctrine of total deprivity of man means that man is totally deprived of goodness. Even the remaining good in him, possessing the remnant of God's image, is flawed. Their is no part in us which is good.

Man's original goodness has fall to sin. Man is deceitful and conniving. Man can pretend to be good, but in the eyes of the Lord, we are sinners.

It means that even our righteousness is like a filthy rags.

The modern man tend to believe he is basically good because he is self-righteous. He pretends he does not need Christ to wash his sins away.

The bible teaches that it is only through Christ that we can be good in the eyes of God.

[servant for Christ]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

The doctrine of total depravity is that our heart is deceitful. It cannot be trusted. It is out of corruption. The heart is the source of all sin. Some of the things that comes from the heare are evil thoughts, murders, adulteries and fornications, stealing, false withess, and blasphemies. The mind and conscience are defiled by sin and that makes everything also defiled. Sin is defiling to the soul, renders it unlovely and abominable in the eyes of a pure and holy God. No, it does not mean that none of God's goodness shows through. It means that we are made in the image of God and His goodness. Modern man believe's that we are good because of all the kind deed's, good deed's, and hard work that we will make up for the wrong doing. That is not the case. The Bible teaches that we are sin. We were born in sin, living in sin rather than turn to God's righteousness. The human heart cannot be changed by itself. We have to experience the grace of God by being born again through faith in Christ and receive a new heart. One that will turn from sin and evil ways and deligfht in doing God's will and living for Him.

[JanMary]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words.

It means that our fallen nature is deceitful and wicked and is untrustworthy to do or be good according to God's standards of Holiness.

Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean?

No,the imprint or remnant of who God created us to be, is still there, but is unregenerate.

Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good?

Because we don't want to admit that we are sinners. The teaching of evolution, which is a fraud, teaches that creatures are evolving to be better, and smarter and stronger...all on our own, since they don't believe there is a Creator.

How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

The Bible teaches that man was created by God in His image in a perfected glorified state, but when Adam and Eve sinned, the human race fell into a depraved state of sin, and death (thank God!) entered in....or we'd be forever in our fallen state. The only way to be redeemed and to enter into relationship with our Creator God once again, is through His Son Jesus Christ, whose blood was shed to cleanse us from our sins, and to bring us back to a righteous state, where we can now choose to do good and to be good through Him.

[Jen]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

Total depravity to me says evil through and through. Totally filthy and unable to help yourself. When I put it in this definition I would find it hard to say that any of God's original goodness shows through.

Modern man is so accustomed to his own sin nature and the corruption of the world that he does not see this. Anyone who has "known" the holiness of God would find it hard to find any goodness left in man especially when he examines his own heart. The verses above would teach that there is no good in man on his own. The goodness that people see that is real is God in us.

God Bless!

Jen

Numbers 6:24-26

[June]

It means we are a mixture of good & evil. Even the good is corrupted and can't be trusted. The mouth speaks evil from the heart and out of the heart comes more evil making the human unclean. Every aspect of man is flawed. We are blinded to the degradation of sin we tolerate in our lives. We can not allow any sin to invade our lives and be oblivious to it 'cause any sin will fester and cause us to fall.

[RickJW]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

The doctrine of total depravity, in Scripture, teaches that, while there may be some good in man, he is given over to his sinful nature - even the good that he may do comes from questionable motives. We, particularly in the American culture, would like to believe that we are basically good, with a little badness thrown in. Scripture tells us the opposite. Even the American ideal of raising one's self up by his own bootstraps is not in keeping with God's teaching through scripture, that we are powerless to do anything without God.

[Patsy Laycoax]

Total depravity is the belief that no good thing dwells in our flesh, we all have a corrupt nature.

We may do good things but we either have the wrong motive or it leads to our being prideful in what we have done. So yes, some of God's original goodness can show through but it will be marred by wrong motives or lead to the sin of pride. Total depravity means there is no part in us that is still perfect as God created man.

Modern man believes we are basically good because to admit otherwise would hurt his pride. We don't want to think we aren't good and in need of someone to save us but the Bible teaches even our righteousness is as filthy rags so we are incapable of doing good with pure motives and not letting pride slip in. We are all sinners by birth and by choice and in need of a new nature that only our Savior Jesus Christ can provide.

[McCollum]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

"Total depravity The heart is deceitful and above all things beyound cure and who can understand it?(Jeremiah 17:9)"All is some what corrupt and therefore even the "good" in us can not be trusted. The things we say come from the heart and these things make us "unclean" when we let such throughs as murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony and slander. These are what robs us from being "clean" and with out flaws. Some time the good that we do ends up with us having wondered it was something worth doing (mixed motives and emotitions). No it does not mean that God's original goodness beleives that we are basically good with a little corruption because mankind beleive that obedience to the law can save us, but this is insulting, obedience to God Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ Grace and Mercy can only save us.

[joan22]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

WHAT IS THE DOCTRINE OF "TOTAL DEPRAVITY"

THE DOCTRINE OF TOTAL DEPRAVITY IS THAT EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING IS CORRUPT. EVEN IF THERE IS GOOD IN US THERE IS NO WAY IT CAN BE TRUSTED, THIS COMES BACK TO MAN SINFUL NATURE. ONCE ADAM SIN WE ALSO INHERITED, THESE SINFUL GENES.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT NONE OF GOD"S ORIGINAL GOODNESS SHOWS THROUGH,BECAUSE THE SECOND ADAM JESUS CHRIST CAME AND REDEEMED THE WORLD ,WE HAVE A CHANCE TO SHOW GOD"S ORIGINAL GOODNESS. SO WHAT IT DOES MEAN IS THAT EVEN THOU WE ARE NO GOOD, THE CROSS HAPPEN, REDEMPTION CAME SALVATION IS FREE;

MODERN MAN BELIEVE THAT MAN TEND TO BE BASICALLY GOOD. WITH LITTLE CORRUPTION THROWN IN BUT CAN BE FIXED WITH SOME EFFORT. THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT IN MATTHEW 15:18-20 THAT THE THINGS THAT COMES OUT OF THE MOUTH COMES FROM THE HEART AND THAT THESE MAKE A MAN UNCLEAN FOR OUT OF THE HEART COMES EVIL THOUGHTS.

[Ms CJ]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

1.It is a deception. We see it in most all forms of religions. It is by works that they believe they will be saved. It is an easy way for them to justify why they can sin and still go to heaven or live forever with the gods they have created.

2. Is the word goodness the right word? Would not the right wording here be; " is the image of God that man was created in, does it show through? And the answer to that would be no. Unless you are born again do you or anyone see the God in you. Your works are dead to you and to others unless done through His Son Jesus Christ. This is Paul says; "you works are dead least any man should boast".

[Eudora]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24)

The words were spoken by Jeremiah concerning his own countrymen, not all of them, probably, but the more corrupted part of the nation, who to their other vices had added a consummate hypocrisy; and of the hearts of these men he draws a most hideous picture, and describes them under three bad characters.

What is the doctrine of "total depravity"?

1: Deceitful above all things. deceitful--from a root, "supplanting," "tripping up insidiously by the heel," from which Jacob (Ho 12:3) took his name. In speaking of the Jews' deceit of heart, he appropriately uses a term alluding to their forefather, whose deceit, but not whose faith, they followed. His "supplanting" was in order to obtain Jehovah's blessing. They plant Jehovah for "trust in man" (Jer 17:5), and then think to deceive God, as if it could escape His notice, that it is in man, not in Him, they trust.

2. Desperately wicked. Incurable (Mic 1:9). Trust in one's own heart is as foolish as in our fellow man. He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. Proverbs 28:26 The heart is abominably wicked, so that neither can a man know his own heart, nor can any other know that of his neighbor's.

3. Tries to live according to it

[Sarah43]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

What is the doctrine of "total depravity"?

The doctrine of total depravity asserts that humans are spiritually helpless against sin, because of Adam's fall into disobedience described in Genesis. Humans need salvation offered by God through Christ in order to find freedom from depravity. Salvation is a gift from God effected through Christ.

Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? No, total depravity does not mean that none of God's orignal goodness shows through. But it means that all goodness comes from God, including Salvation.

Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good?

Because our society is a secular one and sinful also. We are taught that free will and making of the self by the self is possible and good.

How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

The Bible teaches that the self is depraved and a person needs grace, the Holy Spirit, to be transformed, resurrected, and made good.

[smurf1948]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

That all men are not basically good . All things from the mouth are from the heart which bring forth are murderous, adulteress, unclean.

None of his original goodness shows because our sin is to bad.

Modern man hates to admit how bad we really are. How sinful we became.

The bible teaches that even the good in us can't be trusted. The heart is full of deceit.

[nes]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

Total depravity is the fallen state of man as a result of Original Sin. The doctrine of total depravity asserts that people are by nature not inclined to love God wholly with heart, mind, and strength, as God requires, but rather all are inclined to serve their own interests over those of their neighbor and to reject the rule of God.

Most of modern man cannot accept that they are bad, they think they are good, because of what the 10 commandments said. they think helping, giving make them a good man.they think following the 10 commandments make them good, but what they don't know if they missed one of it they've sinned.