Barbara A. Lee Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Any grumbling and complaining against the leader is directed at God because the leader works with God. He is a spokes-person for God. The only time the people should be able to complain is when the leader is going blatantly and knowingly against God and His teachings. A leader takes the complaining personally because they assume that the complaining is against them. What they, sometimes unknowingly and unintentionally, do is assume the role of God. "People are only as good as their leaders" is so true but when you have leaders who do not listen and do what the Lord wants them to do it is shame on the leaders, not the people. We are in that situation with our leaders here in America now. When they took prayer out of the school and all reference to Christ is thumbed at, God is going to bring His wrath upon us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Answer: 1.Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Because the leader only says,and do what the Lord has told them to do. 2.Are there any cases where this might not be true? When the leader is,doing something against the Character,Word,Will of God. 3.Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? Leaders can become passionate also. 4.What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." KNOWING WHO YOU ARE IN CHRIST JESUS...IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU,BUT CHRIST IN YOU: 1John 4:17- Herein is our love made perfect , that we may have boldness in the day of judgment : because as he is , so are we in this world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." There are genuine cases where grumbling against a leader can be a symptom of grumbling against God. God speaks to his leaders who should be listening to God and executing the plans that God gives him sometimes the people are so out of tune with God that they take what the leader say as personal( against them). However when the leaders listens to gossip and comes to the people as if God instructed him this is against the will of God. People are not that simple that they can differentiate gossip from God's messages. Person will grumble we know that we see Aaron and Miriam grumbling against Moses (brothers and sisters) Some leaders are petty and frivolous and cant take criticism in good faith. They feel they are running a boot camp and what ever they say must go regardless of who is affected. Earlier we saw where compromise comes in. Yes I agree it is not about me, you or the leader, it is about God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyho1 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." The reason(s) why grumbling against a leader is really a sympton of grumbling against the lord because people tend to believe that a leader is middle man or medium from God, and when the leader does not perform the act adequately to protect the people then they think that God is doing it on purpose to punish them. Yes, there are cases that this might not be true is when a person(s) believe that all leaders are humans like us, and that they can only follow, but can also make mistakes since they are not perfect? Leaders tend to take complaints so personally because they have everything on their belt to lead, when a person(s) complain, it affects their leadership ability, it is a bad sign for them. It takes faith and a lot of trust in the lord to believe that we are just a steward of God, and since God is in control, then we know it is not all about us, but about God and his glory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiKosum Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." If we follow the precept that the Lord puts authority over us, then yes, grumbling against a leader can be taken as grumbling against the Lord. I am sure there are instances where this is not entirely true although I can't think of any now. As the bumper sticker says, "Lord I love you, it's your people I can't stand!". It is human nature that when people face criticism they take it personally. However this is much more evident in Asian than Western culture. Asians tend to take themselves too seriously. Most Caucasians will be able to look at criticisms objectively. There is much the Asians can learn from Westerners in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Grumbling agaist a leader can be doing so against God because the leader is ordained by God Himself to carry the service for the people. However, some times if a leader does what God has not instrcuted him to do and if the action of the leader is not a righteous act then the grumbling taht will follow this act will rightly and justifiably be against him and NOT against God. Leaders who believe that they have a responsibility for the people they lead tend to have a personal ego and thus a feeling of personal self injury to their pride if people complain about their action. A leader should carry God's instruction rightly and also always pray to God to grant him the grace to always bear in mind what God has said in His word that any grambling against a minister is grumbling agaisnt Him. This realisation should encrouge the leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses 4 Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." And in the morning you will see the glory of the LORD, because he has heard your grumbling against him. Who are we that you should grumble against us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." The true leader of God is His representative and mouth piece to the people. A lot of leaders would rather not do some of the things that God desires, but they carry out His instructions anyway. Whether it is popular or not. When people grumble against the leader, it is the leader they can see and hurt. The leader is in the flesh. Leaders can bring criticism on themselves if they are not carrying out their responsibilities in a Biblical fashion and are not in God's will. Leaders can take complaints so personally because of their emotional, spiritual, and physical investment in their leadership responsibilities. It is hard not to take things personal. That is why it is so important to maintain perspective in Jesus the Christ so that we do not become defeated and demoralized. It is all about God. The scripture teaches us that and we must internalize that principle and walk humbly with the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonna Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." If after prayer and conviction, you feel the leader is following God and you submit to the Leader you are submitting to the Lord. It is important for us to chose who we follow and do not go for the flash in the pan minister, and then submit wholly to the Leader with a servant's heart. Leaders who have not submitted themselves wholly to God and stay true to humility can fail and take on what is not theirs to take on. Humility, strength of character and a strong prayer life will keep you true to knowing it is all for the Lord and you are just the messenger/servant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexandria Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Grumbling against a leader can really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord, when that leader is a leader chosen by God to do his will, so when grumbling against a leader who is trying to do what the Lord has commanded him to do, you are really grumbling against God, as God is the true leader and the person he chose is just the messenger. There can be cases where this might not be true, such as when a leader claims to be God or to take the credit for something that rightfully belongs to God. Some leaders are not sent by God and if this is the case then grumbling would not in any way be considered grumbling against the Lord. Leaders tend to take complaints personally, because the complaints are aimed at them and most leaders tend to forget when they are constantly being blamed for things that may go wrong, that it is really the Lord who they are complaining about. Because of this they tend to take things personally and become angry or resentful. It takes having and accepting the Lord as you leader and trusting him to handle everything. If the leader of a group of people has an intimate relationship with the Lord then he just knows and trusts that God will fix everything, through him. This is when he, the leader finally realizes it is definitely not about him but it is about the lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? When we grumble against a leader we are grumbling against the Lord because the Lord is talking through the leader. Are there any cases where this might not be true? Yes, when the leader is a non-believer and then the Lord is not talking through him. Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? It is hard for us to remember that it is not us they are complaining about What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Maybe we need to remind ourselves that it is not about us everyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis63 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? When the leader is aligned with what God has commanded according to the Spirit's leading and not their own. When the leader is following guidance from God they are a vessel, an instrument being used by God, therefore the complaint is not really against the leader but against / to God. Because the leader is physical, in the natural before them they are the direct recipient of the out lash, God is a Spirit so most will not cry out to Him until / unless something traumatic occurs. When one grumbles against God judgment is to come, it may be delayed, it may be subtle, it may not be devastating, it maybe something aimed so that the Believer will refocus, but it will surely come. Romans 13:2 Are there any cases where this might not be true? When the leader in acting in the flesh, when their actions are carnal, when they are not moving according to the Spirit, but according to their spirit. Solomon was a good leader initially as he followed the Lord's guidance. With the talents, gifts and ability that God gave Him he did wonders and the nation was at peace. The taxes however were a great burden upon the people, when he departed from the scene his son began to reign. The son lead according to man and the kingdom divided. Eli judge and priest was mighty in the Lord, however because he being lead by his feelings did not judge in all manners according to the Lord. Resulting in the nation losing a battle, the ark, his sons being slain and the transfer of the priesthood. We whom may be grumbling against the leader be it they may not be in the Will of God should still make every effort to be as Christ gave ensample. There were many times that the religious leadership of His day moved according to their flesh, traditions, and rituals. How did Jesus conduct Himself on these occasions. Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? Simply put leaders, are human being. They tend to take the grumbles / complaints personally because they are in the face of them, or they are hearing about them. Because God blessed mankind with emotions / feeling they act as sensors, the leaders either reacts or responds, some internalize and hold on to the complaint; some see it as a tool to strive to do better; some turn it over to God. They cast their care over to God, unfortunately because they are human some pick the care up after casting it unto God. Sometimes this process becomes a constant, because the leader leans upon their own understanding. What does it take to learn that "it's not about you"? Sometimes it takes going through the process. Sometimes it takes an self evaluation process where one learns to let go and let God. When in the service of the Lord as the Leader leans not onto their own understanding, as the picture becomes clearer the Spirit bring back to recall that the battle is not against flesh and blood, that sin is in the world, that the adversary continues to prowl, that just as those who have walked in victory from the days of old turned it over to Lord, they must as well. That does not mean doing nothing, that mean adhering to the Holy Spirit's leading according to the Word. Any where that God guides He will provide. This applies to all who are in Christ. If we are to reconcile, reconcile as the Word say. If we are to lead, lead as the Word says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marloes Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." The leader is working in behalf of God, and we should listen to him. Sometimes, leaders do something nonscriptural, or invent an extra scripture - then they don't act on behalf of God. Then we complain against them in person, and not to our Lord. Well, the words are spoken to them! I think they have to realize, and to read about Moses to see he had the same problem. This might encourage them. And then they have to pray that the Spirit helps them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Grumbling against a leader can really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord they are realy complaining about God's provision for them Are there any cases where this might not be true? There are cases where this might not be true, one such case is where a leader's performance is in opposition to the moral laws of God. Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? Leaders tend to take complaints so personally because they do not attribute their posistion of leadership as a God ordained position and that they are standing in place of God before the people. What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." To learn that "it's not about you" require a spirit of humility and obedience to God as He instructs you to lead His people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 The way that grumbling against a leader maybe a symptom of grumbling against the Lord is if the leader is following what the Lord is commanding him to do then they are grumbling against the Lord. There are cases where this might not be true and that is if the leader is not doing what the Lord has told him to do. The reason that the leaders tend to take complaints so personally is they think that they are implementing their plan and not God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellt77 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 If leaders are following the teachings of God...then grumbling will be against God not the earthborn leader. If the leader is not acting in accordance with God's teachings or through God's direction then directed complaints could be truly placed with the leader. Leaders take complaints personally because they are not in touch with God's teachings and to not accept that all things happen in accordance with God's plan. It take understanding of God's power, will and teachings are involved all day, every day of your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammie7 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Grumbling against a leader is grumbling against God because God is the one that the leader is hearing from not us sometime it is hard to hear what the leader is saying when we want to do our own thing which sometime is not what God told the leader. When you want to do one job and God is telling the leader that you are anoint to do something else. Sometime leader make complaint so personal because they think the person is complain about them. But it is God they are complain about.Because this is who is is hearing from. You have to keep telling your self this because if you are hearing from God you have nothing to worry about, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Because we fail to remember that it is God who places our leaders over us. We always think we need to be in control,we disagree and feel we need to be right. Pride gets in the way and we reject our leaders and their objectives. Yes, when a leader is not following the word of God in their leading, when they go against Godly principles. They take it personal because the attacks or arguments seem to be against them they seem to forget at times who put them where they are and give in to pride also. We would need to be totally commited to the Lord and not self. I don't see this happening till Jesus comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshener Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Answering Q.2: God creates and owns everything on earth. HE picks leaders as HE wishes and leaders must act or work according to HIS commands; so when the people start to grumble to any leader it is, of course,as they are grumbling against God who chose HIS representative. To my few knowledge, there might be rare cases which not be true and that will happen when the leaders are not doing the right things which are against HIS command or Order; then the grumbling of the followers might not be the grumbling against God. The leaders tend to take the complaints as of their owns for they are naturally human-beings, think first as they are attacked personally for they forget and seldom aware that they are only God's representatives and have the duties to only accomplish the works as best as they can. To me,I believe that such a phrase is the very important one to be always set in front of my face that I, as trying to be good and humble servant, in proclaming HIS Words and Deeds, can have always self-awareness, politeness and happiness in trying to execute the received orders or works on HIS behalf the best I can for HIS Glory both on earth and in the heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.a. Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." I believe that a leader, when preaching the Word of God, is criticized and this criticism is directed against the Lord. There are times when people do not want to listen to the Word and try to pass it off as 'judgemental' or claim that a truly merciful God will not let any perish. There are times when leaders can take the Word out of context and be grumbled against for misinterpreting the real message in the text. This would lead to grumbling against the leader, as it does not truly represent God's spoken truth. I think that leaders take complaints so personally because they consider their job as leading others to Christ. When there are instances that this doesn't happen, they feel they have 'missed the mark' and were not led by the Spirit. Leaders who seek their hearts and know they used the Word to reveal God's truth need to learn to give it all to God and trust Him with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csreeves Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Complaining has always been a mystery to me. I have come from a background of complainers so when is it ok to complain? It is human, but is it right. When I complain I am complaining to God about what a poor job he did on me. Others say you can complain when you are making a prayer request, but leaders can't accept complaining because in their humanness they take it personally. I am never sure we acheive the "it's not about me" level. I think that it all is a journey and when we get to Heaven we will stop "all about me" I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noke Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Grumbling against a leader is a symptom of grumbling against the Lord when leaders are carrying out what God commanded them to do. This might not be true when leaders are falsely doing what God did not command them to do. Leaders tend to take complaints personally because complaints are directed straight to them and naturally they feel the blame. It takes a lot of understanding the whole scenario to learn that "its not about you" but about God who gave instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurselaino Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 [bQ2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." ] Exo 16:7 and in the morning you shall see the glory of the LORD, because he has heard your grumbling against the LORD. For what are we, that you grumble against us?" Exo 16:8 And Moses said, "When the LORD gives you in the evening meat to eat and in the morning bread to the full, because the LORD has heard your grumbling that you grumble against him--what are we? Your grumbling is not against us but against the LORD." [/b] When a leader is following the Lord what he is doing is God's will...if someone is complaining about that then they are complaining about the will of God. There is times when there are complaints against a leader where the complain is actually for the Leader. That would be when the leader is doing his will and not God's. That is something we are all to look for in our leaders ... that they are following biblical principals and not their own needs and ideas. We as humans want everyone to agree with us and like us and when someone complains against us we take it personally. We have to learn to follow the Lord's leading no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyinBelize Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? The Lord God is in control. He appoints the leaders. No one is perfect, except for Jesus. The leaders will not be perfect and you and I are not perfect. In humility and respect for one another as servants on the journey...we submit to one another in love. People expect the pastor to be perfect. If the pastor thinks he/she needs to fall into that trap to maintain authority they are headed for trouble. Honest humility is the key. We are on the road...no one has arrived. I know of a pastor who has trouble with money. He tends to help himself to the church funds and to the church savings more often than he should. Yet, I am reminded that I have failings, too. Oh this is horrendous (not). This is just a blip on God's radar and it is up to God to deal with it. He is still appointed by God to pastor the church. I wish he would confess this sin, it would make it easier for me to deal with, yet...I should be more concerned about confessing my own sin, one is resistance to this authority. Are there any cases where this might not be true? If the pastor leads the people away from God's kingdom goals. Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? Complaints usually involve a "you" statement. " You should_______ "You need to _______" It's stated personally. What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." Prayerful confidence in God's call. Prayerful confidence in God's guidance. Listening and experiencing God's way of guiding me...so that when people question the direction and decision I am confident in the Lord and can say...."NO, we will go the way God ordains." and know "it is not about me" or an errant decision I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilter Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 IN A LOT OF CASES IT IS NOT GRUMBLING AGAINST THE LORD. IT IS GRUMBLING AGAINST THE LEADERS. THE LEADERS ARE JUST THAT. LEADERS TAKES COMPLAINTS PERSONAL AND GET DEFENSIVE. WE ALL ARE GOD CHILDREN WE MUST PRAY FOR SOLUTIONS. AND LISTEN WHEN HE TELLS US WHAT TO DO. I KNOW THAT NOT ALL PEOPLE WILL AGREE BUT THE LEADER SHOULD BE STRONG AND GO WITH WHAT GOD IS TELLING HIM TO DO TO BE A STRONG LEADER. LEADERS MOTTO SHOULD BE "NOT MY WIIL BUT THY WIIL LORD" AS SOMEONE WITH A LEADER THAT THAT GIVES EXAMPLES OF OTHERS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONFIDANT I HAVE LOST MY FAITH IN HIM AND NOT AT MY CHURCH. MY GRUMBLING TODAY OR ANY OTHER DAY IS NOT AGAINST THE LORD.IT IS AGAINST LEADERS IN MY CHURCH. GOD NEVER DOES ANYTHING TO HURT US BUT HE WILL GET OUR ATTENTION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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