Q2. Grumbling against the Lord

[blezed]

Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you."

1) Grumbling against a leader really can be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord because the leader is here in physical form and it is easier to latch out at him. What we need to realize is that the leader is only following God's instructions and when we grumble we are really grumbling against God.

2) Cases where we may not be grumbling against the Lord is when a leader is not being obedient to God's will. Sometimes we have leaders that say they are a leader and not really called by God to lead and are doing their own thing.

3) Leaders tend to take complaints personally because they forget that it is not about them but about God.

4) To learn that "it's not about you" we must continue to stay in the Word, pray and consult God on everything we do.

[pickledilly]

It can happen both ways. When leaders follow the LORD’s direction, like Moses was doing, they will face resistance and complaining from people who are not following. In a leadership position I held in my church several years ago, I certainly ran into this. The complaints felt personal because they were directed to me personally. If you aren’t careful it will discourage and derail you! But God always helped me see that I was to follow Him and not the complainers (there will always be complainers!). I knew I’d sought His leading to begin with and knew I must be true to what He showed me. They were resisting Him and because they didn’t have the spiritual maturity to recognize that, I was just the flesh and blood human face they could dump their criticisms on. God brought me to that mindset as I yielded to His plan, His will, His glory. For me, that was the secret to not taking it personally.

But sometimes complaints can be valid. Sometimes leaders seek desires of the flesh and not God’s will. Sometimes leaders pursue their own interests and not God’s glory. Sometimes they are being recklessly proud and not modestly bold in faith. That has to be handled biblically, though – not with murmuring and griping, but with prayerful, humble, and loving discussion/confrontation. This approach is different from moaning and groaning.

[Ashech]

Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you."

1) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord?

When a leader is following and doing the Lord's will, anyone grumbles his work is grumbling against HIS work.

2) Are there any cases where this might not be true?

Yes, only to highlight the leader, not in his unknowing but stubborness in swaying against God' purposes.

3) Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally?

They are still human and hard to 'die to self'. Those who are leaders, they needs encouragement and comfort not complaints.

4) What does it take to learn that "it's not about you."

Learn to live, is for Him and not for self. Rom 12:1-2

[Trusting God]

Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord?

Grumbling against a leader is really a symptom of grumbling against the Lord, because it is the Lord who is equipping the leader for the work. When the leader is following the directions of the Lord and His Word, and people grumble and complains about what the leader is doing they are actually complaining against the One the leader is following.

Grumbling against a leader is a symptom of grumbling against the Lord. In the Bible, leaders called themselves

[fireball3]

Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you."

1,Because a leader has been instructed by the lord.

2,no

3,Because sometimes the people u are dealing with are hard headed.

4,when u stop going in circles and u are to puffed up get out of your flesh it stinks

[wifee]

2a)If we grumble to our minister about his leading in the church,we are really grumbling against the Lord because they are God’s representative.

b)If leader is directing people to act not in the will of God,man leading not God e.g..Midwives refused to kill first born males against instructions of Pharoah

c)ministers have a pastoral heart and care for people, wants to help people to be content and peaceful, still fighting the senses of the flesh,so are discouraged and feel they have failed when people make complaint about their leadership.

d)It takes a leader to burn out trying to keep everyone content,&/or when leader receives affirmation their leadership is in line with God’s will, then act with the meekness of humility,resisting pride in any form and proceeding as they sense the Lord is asking them to do, and leave the rest to Jesus.

[IvoryEagle]

Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? IN MANY CASES, WHAT THE LEADER IS REQUIRING IS NOT THEIR IDEA AND IT IS OBVIOUS, IT HAS TO BE THE LORD.

Are there any cases where this might not be true? YES, MANY TIMES, SATAN AND EGO INTERVENE AND THE WRONG MESSAGE IS CONVEYED.

Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? BECAUSE WE ARE HUMAN AND LOVE THE LORD; IT IS PERSONAL WHEN OTHERS RESPOND OTHERWISE.

What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." CONTINUING TO LIVE, LISTEN, AND LEARN THE WAYS OF GOD.

[Craig]

Church members grumble and complain when they are directed or encouraged to do things that stretch them.  To do things outside their comfort zones or personalities.  Leaders sensitive to their congregations and to God's direction for their churches often initiate ministries that not only reach out to the community to present the gospel and fill physical needs, but also seek to develop the spiritual life of limited church members.  To expand their walk with Jesus.  To many this probably seems like a desert moment.  Often church members resist.  They rebel.  This often begins with grumbling and complaining against their pastor.  But in actuality it is against God who is directing the pastor.

 

Grumbling and complaining can be legitimate when a leader is clearly corrupt or out of touch with God's will for their church.  However, this must be corrected promptly and prayerfully.  The leader must be replaced and the church moves on without grumbling or complaining.

 

All levels of church leadership often take grumbling and complaining personally, because most pour their hearts and souls into their ministries.  This makes them vulnerable to grumbling and complaining.  To counter this, a leader must walk closely with God in prayer and Bible study.  In addition, he must surround himself with encouragers and people who will help him maintain perspective.

 

I have been through this trial and I just pass it to God through prayer and keep on going.  I am a minister because called me to be a minister. 

 

 

[Onerivertrail]

Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8) Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord? Are there any cases where this might not be true? Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally? What does it take to learn that "it's not about you." 

Grumbling against a leader is another way of complaining about and rebelling against what God has done. Some even hope God hears what they say. Others are just focused on what they feel the leader has failed to do for them and express it with hostility toward that leader. Maybe those who are whole heartedly following the Lord have discerned a bad leader in their group. Some leaders take criticism very personally because they feel its all about them and forget who the director of their steps really is. To learn its not about you then a leader must get His mind on God and off of himself. Success depends on God and not on how well we feel we put it all together.

[Ademola]

lesson 4, Q2.

1. Grumbling against a leader is grumbling against God because its Yahweh who chooses leaders and charts their paths. 1samuel 8:6-8.

2. None!

3. They ( leaders) often forget that they are mere vessel/instrument in the hand of God.

4. Jesus Christ said " he who listen to you listen to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects he who sent me." (Luke 10:16) . God is in charge of the affairs of our lives. As a matter of fact, God is in charge of everything we are just vessels in his hand.

[Irmela]

Q2. (Exodus 16:7-8)

Why can grumbling against a leader really be a symptom of grumbling against the Lord?

Are there any cases where this might not be true?

Why do leaders tend to take complaints so personally?

What does it take to learn that "it's not about you."

The leader presumably spoken about is one chosen by God and one who is fully surrendered to Him.  As he would be deemed to be a spokesperson of God, or God's arm extended, reaching out to the ones God has placed him over, then any complaints against him could be said are actually complaints against God, that is if he is properly fulfilling his role.  

If and when this so called leader,  as described above,  is not acting in compliance to God's leadership, then  to my understanding it would not be against the Lord.  Then again it would need to be handled in a way that is not grumbling, but prayerfully confront him, not just by one person, but by the persons who feel that he is out of sinc.  It would not be right to become a gossiping subject.

Complaints are taken personally because they are the ones fulfilling the action.  

Prayerfully lay the known complaints before God, and await His way of handling it.

 

[Krissi]

I suppose, at times, a complaint against a leader is, in reality, a complaint against God, but also dare say that the overwhelming majority of the time, when a congregant complains about the leader, it is ABOUT THE LEADER. 

Why is it that congregants are to submit to church discipline -- if it ever happens -- but the leaders of the church are supposed to slough off criticism without self-reflection by pretending it is misplaced?

Leaders should take criticisms personally. After all, those words are aimed at them. This doesn't mean that the criticism are well-founded, though some may hit the target, but only that the criticism should be taken seriously. Then, after a cool-headed analysis, if the criticisms are wrong, they should be discarded and forgotten; if right, they should be heeded prayerfully.

Without suffering and criticism, sanctification rarely proceeds. This means that criticism may be of the Lord, not against Him.

I simply don't see any evidence that contemporary church leaders are taking flak directed at God.