Q2. Father and the Son

[jamdixon]

1. v. 8 tells us that GOD is the Alpha and Omega, the beginninig and the ending, which is, was, and is to come. GOD is every thing, fro, creation to the ends of the world, and everything that dwells and dwelt therein. In other words, GOD is...

2. Jesus is described just like GOD the father, the first and the last, signifying his diety along with His father. John 1 say's, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." v. 2 "The same was in the beginning with God." v. 3 "All things were made by Him;and without Him was not any thing made that was made." Verses 8 and 17 show the father and son in the trinity, equal but sub existent.

[Shelly]

1:8 The Father is the Alpha and Omega, this is confirmed in Isaiah 41:4, 43:10, 48:12. Jesus is also the the 1st and the last (alpha and omega) as stated in Rev.1:17. This is confirmed by Isaiah as well in 44:6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, and his redeemer , the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last and there is no God besides Me."

The significance of this? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being. (John 1:1-3)

[Julie Ann]

He is the first and last, the beginning and the end and so is Jesus.

[Hennie]

These words confirms that our God has allways been. These words were also used by Christ and confirms the trinity. It confirms that Jesus is truly God (John 1:1)

[PressThrough]

Q2. What does this tell us about the Father? The Father is the speaker here in 1:8 and in 21:6. But Jesus is the speaker in 1:17 and 22:12-13. What is the significance of this for our understanding of who Jesus is?

Revelation 1:8 tell's us that God is the Alpha & Omega. The implied meaning of Revelation 1:8, 21:6, 1:17, and 22:12-13, is that Jesus Is God!!!

[paddy]

What does 1:8 tell us about the Father? The Father is the speaker here in 1:8 and in 21:6. But Jesus is the speaker in 1:17 and 22:12-13. What is the significance of this for our understanding of who Jesus is?

Rev 1:8 and 21:6 God describes Himself as being eternal. In 1:17 and 22:12-13 Jesus also describes Himself as being eternal. This gives us to understand that the Father and the Son have the same attributes and, therefore, both are God.

[Durable]

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

I am trying to answer here without reading in much detail how others answered this question. But I am a little baffled here. As I have always taken, Revelation, as something God gave Jesus and then Jesus to John. So in all the verses mentioned, Rev. 1:8, 21:6 and Rev. 1:17, 22:12-13, I had took it as Jesus speaking taking into account the context of the passage. I really have to study this more.

But I see, Jesus uplifting His deity, His relation to God the Father. As in the verse he spoke, Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? God the Father is in Jesus, and He in Him, the divine nature, Jesus was there in the beginning and will be there for eternity. Both have divine characteristics that are the same in nature.

Agape in Christ

Durable

[cowboynmb]

Like the member "Biblereader" the text in red made me think that at first it was Jesus but then the word "Almighty" at the end signifies the Father. We must remember that certain things are placed in the Bible are by man such as the words of Christ in red and words in italics which were not in the original texts but added for clarification in English. Since both the Father and Jesus both claimed to be the beginning and the end I think Christ was reemphasizing his equality with the Father as the Son Incarnate. Just as he said if you've seen Me, you've seen the Father. Both are the same except in the way in which they deal and reveal themselves to man.

[browe73]

THAT JESUS AND GOD IS THE SAME PERSON AND IT PROVES THE IDEA OF THE TRINTY AS TRUE

[innocent]

Rev. 1:8 tell us that God is eternal and is the Almighty.

This is significant to the understanding of whom Jesus is because it revealed to us that Jesus also is God, thereby support the believe on trinity and God heads.

[Skroehr]

Q2. What does 1:8 tell us about the Father?

It tells me that God the Father is timeless. Has always been....is now....and will be in time to come.

The Father is the speaker here in 1:8 and in 21:6. But Jesus is the speaker in 1:17 and 22:12-13. What is the significance of this for our understanding of who Jesus is?

This says to me that Jesus, who speaks as the father and is also timeless is one with the father. I feel this is yet another confirmation of the holy trinity.

[dragonslayer]

The Father ,God had no beginning . He is from everlasting to everlasting. In verse 17 and 22:12-13 he is being revealed as having the same attributes as the Father , Jesus is identified with the Father as being Almighty God. [isaiah 9:6 ,John 8:58 . etc. He is Jehovah God,Yahweh, the second Person of the Divine Trinity. [Had a tough time for a while getting in here. ] Love you all. Jehovah shalom.

[Barbara1]

Q2. What does this tell us about the Father? The Father is the speaker here in 1:8 and in 21:6. But Jesus is the speaker in 1:17 and 22:12-13. What is the significance of this for our understanding of who Jesus is?

That the Father as "Alpha" is the creator of that is, and the giver of all good and perfect gifts while we are here on this earth, and as " Omega" will in the end send Jesus for those that chose follow Him.

That Jesus as "Alpha" is the first born of God, and the first to be resurrected, and as "Omega" He will come to get us as our Savior, our Prince, our King, our Lord.

[mommyoliver]

THE VERSE IS TELLING US THAT THE FATHER IS NOT ONLY THE ALPHA AND OMEGA BUT ALSO THE ONE WHO IS ,WHO WAS, AND WHO IS TO COME.

THE PURPOSE OF US KNOW WHAT GOD SAID AND WHAT JESUS SAID IS TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID FOR INSTANCE IT SAYS IN VERSE 17 THAT I FELL ON MY KNEES WE KNOW HE JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT SEEING GOD

[HasanaMonique]

Question: Last summer I had the opportunity to visit Africa. While there I clearly heard a voice that said the following, "I am Alpha and Omega. The God of Good and Evil" Would God ever say anything like this?

[Katzen]

I have a red letter edition Bible which has verses 1:8, 1:17 and 22:12-13 in red text...Jesus being the speaker. Of the verses in Q2, verses 1:7 and 21:6 are in black text...our Father being the speaker.

Nevertheless, the Father and Jesus are one. They always were and they always will be.

[Schleproq]

I happen to believe that Jesus is the God of the old testament, and that Jesus is speaking in all of these verses. I am open to the idea that one verse is God the Father speaking and the other is Jesus, but how do we determine which are which? Because the description is "Alpha and Omega", and "first and last" in all cases, I am enclined to believe that it is the same entity speaking in all cases, and that would have to be Jesus Christ. Regardless, these verses are defintely telling us that Christ has been since the beginning, and will be till the end.

[johjoy]

These scriptures reveal simply that Jesus and God the Father are one and the same. They are not separate. They also reveal the eternal nature of God, that God has always been and that He always will be.

Jesus says in John 14:8-11

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

Furthermore, in John chapter 1 it is written:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. (vs.1,2) . . . The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.  We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the father, full of grace and truth. (vs. 14).

Both of these passages in John make clear, as the passages in Revelation, that Jesus and God the Father are one. In fact, I just learned that when Jesus is referred to as the son of man, in biblical times, this referrent "son of man" meant someone is human. The son of a man or person is another person. Likewise, Jesus is referred to as the son of God because he is God.

Jesus was God in the flesh i.e. both the son of Man and the Son of God.

John 1 also reveals Jesus and God the Father as Alpha, being in the beginning. Throughout Revelation, we see them also as the end.

Referring to God's eternal nature, Romans 1:16-17 says:

For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities -- his eternal power and divine nature -- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

God's Word reveals to us that God is eternal, that God is and that Jesus is God. I have no excuse but to serve and worship accordingly.

[ellymht]

This question is of particular importance to me as some refute the position of Christ as related to Father God. God refers of Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. One thing that has always struck me as particularly relevant is the conversation that God is having with Moses and God identifies Himself as "I AM". Interestingly, Jesus uses the exact same phrase when refering to Himself in John 8:58, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" I felt that Jesus was clearly stating without a doubt who He was. My thought is that He would not have chosen the same wording, that would be blasphemy if He were not. The choice references in Revelation, only seem to support this that both Father God and Jesus would refer to themselves as the beginning and the end. Coincidence? I don't think so!! I think that it is easy to connect these references and clearly support this relationship.

[brafferty]

This tells us that Jesus and the Father are equal and all that the Father has is Jesus

[chenista]

First and last refer to the completness - In the beginning was the Word - Jesus was the Word, he was here in the beginning and through to the End.

Revelations refers to the completeness, no other deity can come full circle - we are all ONE in the body of Christ -

It is fullness, completeness....

It is ALL we need. He does not have to be proven, I AM - there is no other authority.

[alisicia]

REVELATION

Chapter 2

"Revelation to the Seven Churches"

Most churches of today don't realize that at the sounding of the seventh trumpet and Jesus Christ's return, all of the churches will still be right here on earth. This was pointed out in the first chapter. The churches John saw, the "seven candlesticks", were right here on earth on the "Day of the Lord". On that "Day of the Lord" the entire tribulation is over, finished, and the churches [candlesticks] are still on the earth.

Friend, if your looking for a "Rapture", for someone to fly you out of here before Satan comes to earth in his role as the Antichrist, as many churches teach; it means you will have already worshipped the Antichrist at the time this vision of John. It means that you have taken Satan's name, and that you have also taken his number; it means you have been deceived. This is why it is important that you should study all of God's Word, and not listen to the traditions of men that go against the Word of God. It will save you great deal of embarrassment when you stand before your Heavenly Father on "The Day of the Lord". Don't be ignorant of God's Word.

Revelation 2:1 "Unto the angel of the church of Eph'-e-sus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"

This letter is written to the church of Ephesus. Here, the promises of blessings are not given to the church itself; but only to those few overcomers that are within it. These stars are the angels over each of these churches, and the "golden candlesticks" are the seven churches. This was established in the first chapter.

Jesus told John to write to the church at Ephesus first. The message is to Christians in all churches of these end times, and now especially to those who have doctrines and works that match that of the Ephesus Church.

Revelation 2:2 "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars [false]."

Christ continues speaking to the Church of Ephesus, and all churches with like doctrine and works. Jesus recognizes the good traits of this church and it's people, including the fact that this church even tests their members according to their fruits of their works and words. This church even has pinpointed the liars, or hypocrites that live and worship amongst them.

Revelation 2:3 "And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted."

This sounds like a pretty good church. They are trying; they have patience, they can't stand evil around them, and they are strong of the Lord.

Revelation 2:4 "Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love."

Now what is the "first love"? If you love and are a follower of Almighty God, that isn't to difficult to understand. The first covenant is God, and Christ is "the living Word". There are many who have left Christ, and have gone to forms of godliness, but in doing so, they deny the power thereof [of God].

Remember, these are the seven types of Churches in the world that exist on "the Day of the Lord", or the Lord's day. That day is the day the seventh trumpet sounds, and our Lord Jesus Christ returns.

Does your church preach and believe in the "Virgin birth of Christ"? How about the death, and resurrection, and the ascension into heaven of Jesus Christ? Does your church believe that the only way to the Heavenly Father is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ? How about all those stories and parables in the Bible; how is your church teaching them? This is what tell you if your church has left it's first love.

To deny Jesus' virgin birth, His death and resurrection, and ascension into heaven, is to deny that Jesus Christ is our Savior. Many ministers today simply do not believe that the Bible is anything but a storybook. Their sermons are about everything sweet and lovely, but not of God's love and justice. Many of these pastors are locked into the traditions of their denominations that they learned in their seminary, and to sway from that could mean loss of job, and more important to many of these preachers, their pensions or livelihood. But for whatever their reason, the truths of God's holy Word has taken the back seat to their systems traditions.

Revelation 2:5 "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

There are many churches that never study from the Old Testament. They leave their members in total ignorance and open to the deceptions that are coming upon us, that are increasing by the day. Jesus is warning this Church of Ephesus to repent, and get back into all of God's Word. Christ is the center of the entire Word of God, and He is the first love of all your study.

God is threatening that if you do not get back to your first love, He will tare your church up. If that candlestick representation your church and it will be gone. What again was this church doing that was so wrong? They strayed from Christ and His teachings, and in their believing in the Word of God. The focus of their worship was not Christ, but worldly matters. If you have strayed, repent and get back on track.

Revelation 2:6 "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nic-o-la-i'-tanes, which I also hate."

There are no written records of the Nicolaitanes, however this type are appearing in churches now, at the end of this earth age. They are hateful and disruptive people towards God. In Strong's Greek dictionary, their number is #3531, "Kebarah", and here we are referred to #3527. When we go there we see these people are called, "Kabar; to accumulate in large number, an abundance; to multiply." The church at Pergamos also practiced this.

The Dixon Bible Dictionary said of the "Nicolaitanes", "They had become established in the Churches of Ephesus and Pergamos; and taught that it was the right and liberty of Christians to eat meat offered to idols, and indulge in other forms of heathenism."

In modern day churches, most are taking in heathen forms of religious practices in their worship, and accepting heathen traditions as being from God. Doctrine and deeds which are contrary to God's Word are allowed and even promoted. This should cause you to draw attention to Romans 11:7, where Paul said, "Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

This is speaking to the time of our generation, and that obtainable thing that is the wisdom and knowledge within all of God's Word. Included are all prophecies, and the understanding that the Antichrist comes first. This one world system spreading now over the earth will drag all religious orders to it, including Christian churches. The Nicolaitanes will try to convience the churches of the type of Ephesus and Pergamos to join them. And they will accept the heathen customs and traditions that fit into this godless "one world system", that has already been formed.

Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

The "Tree of Life" is Jesus Christ, and if you are an overcomer against these godless practices and doctrines, you will partake in Christ's Millennium Kingdom. This is discussed fully in chapter twenty two. You will either be in this "paradise of God" as an overcomer, or after judgment you will be sent to the lake of fire. Your church system could lead you there.

Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyr'-na write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive [lived again];"

Here is the second church Jesus told John to write about. It is the church of Smyrna, and all those churches of today which are like it. This is one of the churches God is very pleased with. If your church is not like Smyrna, then you could be in trouble. The key to the church of Smyrna's form of worship is that they took and understood the entire Word of God.

Remember from the first chapter; "He that is first [first earth age], and the last [eternal] is our Lord Jesus Christ". "The Alpha and Omega" is one of the names for Jesus Christ, and it is He that is speaking to John. "Which was dead, and is alive;" is another description of Jesus. Jesus Christ's flesh body was crucified and dead, and in three days Jesus came alive to conquer death. Jesus is the Messiah.

Revelation 2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, [but thou art rich] and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

This tribulation is the tribulation of the Antichrist. Remember, John is in the Spirit, and on the "day of the Lord", or "the Lord's Day", which is the last day of this earth age. The seventh trumpet is about to sound. We are living in that generation and this writing is to you and I in our generation.

Smyrna was poor in earthly standards, but rich in knowledge and understanding. This Smyrna church knew God's Word, and stood upon their understanding of it. The Church of Smyrna had strength through the Word of God. The Smyrna Church knew the blasphemy of certain people that crept into Smyrna's congregation. These blasphemous people claimed to be of the tribe of Judah, or of the land of Judah, referring to their commitment to God. However, they are "Kenites", and imposters, and are of "the synagogues of Satan".

To the Christian, our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit of God. The synagogues were, and still are the subsitute for doing it God's way. It became the, "instead of the temple of God", when they came to worship. Those of the synagogues of Satan were the cause for the changes made in worship in Jesus day, and they are the same ones who are causing many churches to worship and follow other ways today. Do you know who these Kenites are? Do you know what they do, or where they came from? The Smyrna Church did. Jesus is saying here, if the ability to identify and know these people of Satan is not taught in your church, He is not happy with you.

Jesus said your rich if you understand the seed line of Satan. That understanding of the Kenites is the "Key of David", the truth. In Mark 13, Jesus makes it very clear, there is a tribulation coming; and that tribulation is a deception of the truth. While some Christians will be very ashamed, others that are not ashamed will be delivered up before these synagogues of Satan, and then the Holy Spirit will speak through them, as He did on the Pentecost Day. We read of this in Acts 2.

Peter identified this in Acts 2:14-21, as that spoken of by Joel the prophet. [Joel 2:28-32]; This was a sample of how it will be in these end times. Friend, we are living in the end times. This "synagogue of Satan" is very active today, and putting up quite a deception before the churches of today, to draw them into their godless, "one world system", which is preparing the way for their father Satan's arrival as the Antichrist.

The Church of Smyrna and those churches of like doctrine, know who these Kenites are, and God will bless them for this knowledge.

Revelation 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.."

When you know exactly what the deceptions of these Kenites are and from the rest of Revelation, you how these Kenites are working. The purpose is how to identify them, and then you will have nothing to fear from them. God will protect you, for the entire tribulation is nothing but smoke and mirrors. It's deceptions, tricks, and all sorts of supernatural wonders given by God to Satan [the Antichrist]. The Antichrist and his children, the Kenites, will use those powers to deceive you into worshipping Satan in ignorance as the true Christ.

When you know who Satan is, and that he comes to the earth before Jesus Christ comes, you simply can not be tricked by Satan or his children. These Kenites are Satan's children through the womb of Eve. The child born from that sexual union was "Cain", and all the offspring of Cain, to this generation are called the "Kenites". Though you are unaware of this, rest assured that the Kenites know all about themselves. This race of Kenites have copied and mimic what ever group they happen to enter.

I Chronicles 2:55 "And the families of the scribes which dwelt in Jabez [Jerusalem], the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, the Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab."

These scribes were the Sopherites that set out to write the "Textual Criticism" called the "Sopherim". Their purpose was to rewrite the Word of God, and teach is as their traditions, to replace the teaching of the Massorah of the Levitical priesthood. This is why they sought to kill Jesus from the day of the start of his ministry, Jesus knew the difference. Notice also that they are of the house of Rechab, of the lineage of Cain, not of the house of Israel, they came from the land of Hemath, of the location of the Kenites.

I Chronicles 2:55 gives us the time that the Kenites took over the duties of the scribes, or keeping safe the true meaning of God's Word, and because of this we have a Massorah Text. Whereby if anything is added to, or taken away from God's Word, it would stand out. These Kenites dominated the priestly duties of the Levites also, when the Jews came out of Babylon. This is quite obvious by Ezra's writing, in Ezra 2:43-65. It is this band of Kenites that sat in the seat of Moses, that Jesus referred to constantly through His ministry in the Gospels.

The nature of the Kenites is exactly as their father Satan is, thus when you understand how Satan infiltrates, and uses and twists the Word of God to deceive and confuse, you can see how these people will infiltrate your church, and lead you into their father's camp. We are told in Mark 13:11 that when you go against them, they will cause you to give an answer why you will not follow them. There is a reason you are not to think ahead at this time of what you will say, but to let the Holy Spirit to speak through you. That is because these people are wordsmiths, they know how to take words you say and twist meanings to accommodate themselves. Satan and his kids know the Word of God, and be assured that they have been in a position to distort it for thousands of years.

Don't make plans to fight the Antichrist, for you will lose. Instead, study to prepare yourself to know about him, and what he will do. He will do exactly what God will give him authority to do, and nothing more. When we keep our eyes on Jesus Christ and know we will not see Him in this flesh body each of us have, then the hardest step is out of the way. For whoever claims to be Christ, simply cannot be, for you will see Him in your flesh body.

We see also in Mark 13:11, the total time of tribulation for the saints and faithful is for ten [10] days. To those who hold fast to the Lord for those ten days, God's reward to His elect [those that know the truth and remain true to Christ] is "the crown of Life", that is eternal life. This earth age is about over, and our minds should be set, and looking to the day of our Lord's return.

The only two that are assured of losing their lives in the Antichrist's tribulation are the two witnesses. Their death marks the last three and an half days of this earth age. Then Christ will return. This is recorded in Revelation 11 and we will study it in detail.

Remember that the Church at Smyrna is still on earth when all this takes place. No so-called "rapture" has occurred; However, all those who are looking for the rapture will have already served the Antichrist, and taken his name and his number.

Revelation 2:11 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Here we see that beautiful saying again. Those in the church of Ephesus, except for the overcomers, are going to have their church [candlestick] smashed; However, those in the Church of Smyrna are getting ready to receive the "crown of life", eternal life. Those who receive this reward will not see the second death, the death of the soul.

Revelation 2:12 "And to the angel of the church in Per'-ga-mos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;"

"Per'-ga-mos" is the type of another church existing in these latter days; compare it now to your Church. The reference to the "sharp sword with two edges", is because Jesus Christ is preparing to do some cutting on some dead wood. A pruning is going to take place. He is going to discipline the Pergamos church.

Revelation 2:13 "I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Sa'-tan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein An'-ti-pas was my faithful martyr [my witness, my faithful one], who was slain among you where Sa'-tan dwelleth."

The Pergamos Church is a very high-minded church. This church had a special high authoritative person they called "savior" [not Christ], and this church believed that you had to go through him, and please him to be saved and approach the Heavenly Father. The symbol of this "savior" was the serpent. This is because of his identification being related back to Ancient Babylonian worship. He was a follower of the serpent [satan], even though the things he did and said appeared to be good.

Pergamos still carries the true name of Christ, with a strong faith. The time is fixed for us when this church claims to be Christ, but takes an identification with the "seat of Satan". "Antipas" in the Greek, is "Anti-father", or "Antichrist" in the spiritual sense. We are observing this Church of Pergamos in John's vision that takes place "on the Lord's day". This is looking back on the final days of this earth age.

As we will see in Revelation 12:7, Satan is now in heaven as our accuser, until the time when Michael casts him, and his fallen angels to the earth. The actual time of "Antipas" or Satan's coming is set in Revelation 9:1, when the fifth angel sounds the fifth trumpet. These events will be covered in detail in those chapters.

Satan is God's servant, just as Nebuchadnezzar was God's servant in Ancient Babylon. The seat of Satan will be in Jerusalem, and that is where he will dwell. Satan, the Antichrist, will dwell and live in Jerusalem, just as you expect the True Christ to come and reign. That is why we are told in Matthew 24, and Mark 13, that when you see him there, you had better get out of Judea [the nation of Israel today].

Revelation 2:14 "But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the dactrine of Ba'-laam, who taught Ba'-lic to cast a stumbling block before the children of Is'-ra-el, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication."

God has something against this Church at Pergamos, and all the churches like it. What is "Balaam", and just what is the "fornication" that they are involved with?

We are talking about religious activities, and spiritual matters here. This "fornication" is a spiritual act. "Balaam" was a teacher who taught for money. He was so stupid that he couldn't hear when God talked directly to him. In fact he didn't even realize the difference when the *** he was riding spoke to him. This old boy still can't catch on, because all he can think of is preaching, and collecting his money for that teaching.

Where and how does money come into your church with respect to the Word of God? Is their a constant plea for money? When sermons are built around money, and programs are created for the purpose of generating, then ultimately they are building your spiritual relationship to what you give [they get]. Then your church is comparable to the Church at Pergamos. Your preacher becomes a spiritual beggar at the pulpit. The tithe is the Lord's, but the purpose of the church, and it's pastor, is to teach the Word of God. A pledge is not a tithe, because the tithe is a tenth of what God has placed in your hands that belongs to Him. When your pastor takes your full tenth, are you getting the full Word of God, or just spiritual crumbs from him?. Scraps from the table of the Lord does not prepare anyone to stand against the "wiles of the devil".

Revelation 2:15 "So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nic-o-la-i'-tanes, which thing I hate [in like manner]."

If you can't understand the importance of knowing the Kenites, you will worship Baal, and be subject to their salesmanship, as they peddle their distortions of God's Word. These Nicolaitanes are the same ones that plagued the church of Ephesus. There are very few churches today who teach as the Church at Smyrna taught.

Revelation 2:16 "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

If you have money as the center of your life, and place it over the study of God's Word; Jesus is telling you to repent.

Revelation 2:17 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden man'-na, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knowth saving he that receiveth it."

"Manna" is angel food for the spiritual body, it is what God fed the children of Israel while they were in the wilderness. The "manna" of today is the spiritual truth within the Word of God that feeds your spiritual body and mind. The "white stone" is a stone of victory, it is given to God's elect who are the overcomers. They overcame the deceit of the Antichrist, and the Kenites. If you have an ear to hear, you will understand what the spirit is trying to teach you. This instruction is given for us by Jesus, with John doing the writing.

Christ spoke in parables while on earth, so that many, including the Kenites, would not understand. Then Jesus gave the keys to understanding them to His disciples so His teaching would not be a mystery to them. After Jesus spoke in parables, His disciples asked him why He spoke in parables.

Matthew 13:11 "He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

Matthew 13:12 "For whosoever hath, to him shall it be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath."

Matthew 13:13 "Therefore speak I to them in parable: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

Their is a reason for their not understanding, God did not want them to understand for a purpose. These Kenite people are the negative part of the entire plan of God, and it was for their own protection.

Matthew 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Exaias, which saith, `By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

Matthew 13:15 "For this people's heart [mind] is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Just as the Key was the understanding that Satan had sexual relations with Eve, and bore the son Cain [not of Adam]. Cain's offspring [children] have plagued God's children throughout this entire earth age. They are not Jews, or for the tribe of Judah, but have taken over, and assumed the duties of the priests and the scribes. These are the hidden ones who do the dirty work, killed the prophets and Christ, and they will call themselves by whatever name suits their mission. They lie, deceive and confuse wherever they are. When the Jews came out of Babylon over half of all those returning to Jerusalem to build the temple and reestablish worship, over half of their number were the Nethinims [those given to service], but not of the Levitical priesthood.

Ezra 8:15 "And I gathered them together to the river that runneth to Ahava; and there abode we in tents three days: and I viewed the People, and the priests, and found there none of the sons of Levi."

Here over four hundred years before Christ, and the Levitical priesthood had been taken over by these Kenite Nethinims, for Ezra found not one of the sons of Levi were present with them returning to Jerusalem.

Today these Kenites control the four hidden dynasties [will be discussed later], and those dynasties are education, economy [commerce, trade and banking], religion, and politics. These people are the final authority in the "New World Order", [the United Nations], with it's 10 major world controlling agencies. Our national leaders have sold you and America to them, so you see we are now into the fourth seal and most Christians don't even know it. This will be discussed later in this book in detail.

The sons of Satan through Cain, are identified in Strong's Greek Dictionary, #7014, "Qayin, kah'-yin; Kajin, the name of the first child, also a place in Palestine, and of an oriental tribe, Cain, Kenite." Today these Kenites are setting up the one world system, changing doctrine within churches, confusing the truth of God's Word through their well placed "higher critics", and laying the platform for your acceptance of their father, Satan, to be your God. When a Kenite comes to the saving knowledge of Christ and repents, they are no longer a Kenite, but a son of the Living God, Jesus Christ.

The word "stone" in verse 17 is #5586 In Strong's Greek dictionary. It means; "a pebble worn smooth in counting." This is also part of Revelation 13, where we are told "to count the number of the beast." That number of the beast is the number of man. The word "count" is not like counting numbers 1, 2, 3, and so on; but comes from an outdated Greek word "Stigma". In the Greek, Strong's #5585, "Psephizo, psay-fid-zo; from 5586; to use pebbles in enumeration, to compute, to count".

Strong's #5586, "Psephos, psay'-fos; a pebble [as worn smooth in handling],i.e., to use as a counter or ballot, a verdict of acquittal or ticket of admission; by vote-stone". The Kenites use their skills in controlling the majority, in determining right or wrong, who is in power, and the bases of their world system through the United Nations. This is exactly how we are going to lose national sovereignty, and be brought under control of this satanic system, at the ballot box, by the polls, and through the Demotrcratic process of the numbering of the people.

In the "Song of Moses" , in Deuteronomy 32:30-31 it is clear that Satan is presented as a "rock", or stone. To the overcomers that are aware that; "this rock is not like our Rock", where most Christians do not know the difference between the two rocks. The Church of Pergamos did not know the difference.

Though in the English the words "stone", and "count" are far apart, however in the Greek they were not. They have the same prime root meaning. So by giving the number 666, that number has the same root meaning as counting and identifying stones, or rocks. The whole idea of taking a number, like the branding on ones body of a tattoo and have it commit you to Satan is out-right ignorance. For by force, anyone can be branded, and as such, not one child of God loses his or salvation. This will be discussed in detail in a later chapter.

Jesus is telling John that the Key to being acceptable to Him, is when you are able to know the difference between the two rocks; the true Rock being Christ, and the fake rock is the Antichrist. We are to be able to count those pebbles [666], and know those fakes [the Kenites]. The Kenites will deceive you if you lack the "hidden manna", the truths in God's Word.

Revelation 2:18 "And unto the angel of the church in Thy-a-ti'-ra write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine [burnished] brass;"

Jesus is introducing John now to the "Church in "Thy-a-ti'-ra".

Revelation 2:19 "I know thy works, and charity [love], and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works, and the last to be more than the first."

This sounds like a good group of people, only their works are a lot stronger then their charity. God is commending them for their works. The problem here is also that at Thyatira is ignorant of who the Kenites are. Their works do not cover up their lack of knowledge of God's Word.

Revelation 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jez'-e-bel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols."

This is not the "Jezebel" of the Old Testament, but it is the one taking hold of most churches today. This "Jezebel" is the Harlot of Revelation 17. It is the people, churches and system that will whore after the Antichrist. This Jezebel church, "calleth herself a prophetess" [not a harlot], and tries to answer all your spiritual problems, as she drags you into her whoredoms.

Friend, the Church of Thyatira will teach you all sorts of things that sound good, and just like a whore, she will work over your emotions. She will seduce you into all forms of heathen customs and religious practices and acts of fornication and idolatry. This fits many churches in America and around the world today.

With their works of love, charity, service, patience, and faith; they are totally unprotected against the spiritual war Satan is placing upon them. They are allowing themselves to be herded into Satan's camp. The true bride of Christ in no way will allow herself to be compromised as this Church of Thyatira and these kinds of churches are. The bride of Christ knows her husband [Christ] and looks forward to His return.

Revelation 2:21 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not."

Thyatira doesn't repent because she has sold herself to emotion, and false doctrine. The "Kenites" have convinced her that she is going to fly away before the destruction comes.

Revelation 2:22 "Behold, I will cast her into bed, and them that commit adultery with her unto great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

This is the tribulation of the Antichrist. The tribulation of the Antichrist is the only subject of Matthew 24, Mark, 13, and Luke 21. They are the most detailed prophecies concerning the time prior to the return of Christ, and our gathering back to Him. You, as an individual can be an overcomer, regardless of what your local church body does.

This great falling away that will happen just prior to our Lord's return is called the great "Apostacy". This is because when the Antichrist arrives on earth, many Christians will believe that the Antichrist is the true Christ, and will follow and worship the Antichrist in ignorance. At that moment, they have been "seduced" by him.

Revelation 2:23 "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

Once you have bound yourself over to the Antichrist, God's grace by faith is not extended to you. Matthew 24:19 and Mark 13:17 gives us this warning; "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days." "Suck" is a term used here, "to give your works". This is to nurture along the works of the Antichrist. Once you have done that, your in trouble with our Heavenly Father.

Revelation 2:24 "But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thy-a-ti'-ra, as many as have not this doctrine [teaching], and which have not known the depths [deep things] of Sa'-tan, as they speak, I will put upon you none other burden."

This is addressed to those who have not taken part in the Antichrist's deception. It is to those who are within the Church of Thyatira, or one like it, but have not joined in her Jezebel practice. These saints are not, and will not be judged with the others, nor held accountable for the actions of them. Jesus Christ will see that you are protected against all fiery darts of deception in Satan's spiritual warfare, if you only arm yourself with the spiritual armor. This is an individual thing, because the Church simply can not save anyone, for through Jesus Christ we are cleansed of our sins.

Revelation 2:25 "But that which ye have already hold fast till I come."

Revelation 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power [authority] over the nations:"

Notice here that it does NOT say, keep my faith to the end. It says, "Keep my works to the end". It is quite common to hear, "All you need is to have faith". Friend, that will not be sufficient in these latter days, while Satan is on earth ruling as the Antichrist. "Faith" is of value to us in this end generation, for by faith we generate our actions into studying God's Word, and gain understanding and wisdom from the Scriptures, which in turn builds our confidence in Jesus Christ. The more wisdom we have from the Scriptures, the more passion we have to work and serve God. You simply cannot have faith, without a commitment to serve Jesus Christ.

Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

The word "rule" is better translated in the Greek, "Shepherd". The Shepherd looks out for his sheep, and the "rod of Iron" is a scepter of iron.

If your Church is similar to this Church of Thyatira, consider it as " a bowl made of potter", with Christ taking His rod of iron and smashing it to pieces. It won't have a chance on the "the day of the Lord", at His return. All the instructions that Jesus Christ carries out on that day comes directly from the Heavenly Father. All judgments of God are given in love.

Our Heavenly Father doesn't like it when these shepherds prophecy that God said something, when it isn't written in his book. Their false words are lies, and they are Jezebel liar prophets. He hates it, see verse 15.

Revelation 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star."

There are two morning stars, and the first star to come in these end days will be the Antichrist. Isaiah 14:12; "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lu-ci-fer [day star], Thy son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

How many teachers have been tricked into believing this is Christ? Once God has sealed His "elect" and the 144,000 in their minds, the rest of mankind will be given over to Satan, the morning star. see Revelation 9:1-5.

Revelation 2:29 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Do you have an ear to hear what Christ is saying to the Churches? Where does your church stand for and teach?

The Shepherds Chapel

[johnd]

Q2. What does this tell us about the Father? The Father is the speaker here in 1:8 and in 21:6. But Jesus is the speaker in 1:17 and 22:12-13. What is the significance of this for our understanding of who Jesus is?

a) This tells us that the Father is forever (good news for us as we have a lot to look forward to).

Jesus is God.

[sister]

a) This tells us that the Father is forever (good news for us as we have a lot to look forward to).

Jesus is God.

Q2. What does this tell us about the Father? The Father is the speaker here in 1:8 and in 21:6. But Jesus is the speaker in 1:17 and 22:12-13. What is the significance of this for our understanding of who Jesus is?

When Jesus is speaking in the bible, God is speaking. They are one.

[Lisa Rupert]

Q2. What does this tell us about the Father? The Father is the speaker here in 1:8 and in 21:6. But Jesus is the speaker in 1:17 and 22:12-13. What is the significance of this for our understanding of who Jesus is?

The father is the beginning and the end. There is nothing before him or after him.

Jesus is the first and the last. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are separate but one. They are the Trinity. They all work for the will of God.