Pastor Ralph Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis63 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? I think a pastor or church leader may use guilt attempting to compel people to give more when their agenda differs from God. Unfortunately more than often it is due to fleshly desires, carnal thinking. Unfortunately this occurs at the at the expense of the sheep, members, individuals, some will remain and complain with the assembly, some will leave (go elsewhere or nowhere); some will remain and pray; some will remain and prepare divisive offering. They “Decided in their heart” to give, they have thought it through and want to be a part of the collection / giving. However do to the method of coercion they have decided amounts to give in increments. Thereby at the end of the campaign they have giving what they have reasoned willingly, however that is far from giving willingly. The thought that ran through their minds was not motivated by thoughtful discipleship and love for Jesus. This infection damages the movement, as I said previously, the money will have an effect however it will not work in the fullness of the manner God intended. When we conduct ourselves in this manner our spirits are not aligned with His Spirit. We are not adhering to the Holy Spirit! I have also experienced occasions where it was for a good cause (to provide aid of some sort). However if God did not move the pastor or church leader towards the cause it may be a good cause that may not be deemed a good work in the eyes of God. Can greed be behind their pressure? Yes, among other things. **** can be very powerful! Some may be leaning closer to a form of religion in Christ vise having a relationship with Him. They may not carry visibly all of the attributes of the Pharisees and Sadducees. However vise putting Christ first they place themselves first, they accrue many worldly trinkets / toys, outer accruements that they desire to maintain. Financial pressure loom, along with the bar of “success” being set by larger, more attractive churches cause them to have green eye syndrome. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? It contradicts the character of God. God does not force anyone to consider Him worthy, relating to honoring Him through or with an offering, pressure in any form would negate love. The offering would not be a free-will offering, an offering freely of the givers will. The verse says not to give harboring feelings of remorse / guilt nor to give because of force or feeling obliged due to man's influence. In essence Paul conveys that a person giving with a cheerful countenance God loves relating to giving, vise a person giving not really wanting to. What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? Their mind, their spirit is aligned with God's, they reflect the character of God. The condition of a cheerful heart giver is in line with God principle of giving, and also in His likeness. For this is how He gives, there are so many examples where God blesses those who believe in and upon Him. He does not give from a feeling of guilt or that He should, He give just because. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? It is sad to say but unfortunately true, greed is the motivating factor. I’ve seen it time and again on our so called Christian TV channels, and it is embarrassing to watch them virtually begging. I know some are doing wonderful work for our Lord but it is the lifestyles some of these TV evangelist live that says it all. It is out of gratitude for what our Saviour has done and continues to do for me, that I give. Jesus is the centre of our lives, of all things; He sustains and upholds all things (Heb 1:3), He is before all things (Col 1:17). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvoryEagle Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? BECAUSE MANY IN THE CONGREGATION HAVEN'T READ THE BIBLE ENOUGH TO KNOW THEY MUST CONTRIBUTE TO THE COMFORT OF THE BUILDING. THEY ASSUME, "SOMEONE" WILL PAY BUT NOT ME. THE PASTOR, UNDER THE PRESSURE OF PROVING RESOURCES AND COMFORT, MANY TIMES RESORT TO GUILT. WHILE THE PROCESS OF GUILT IS NOT PRETTY, IT IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY. Can greed be behind their pressure? MANY TIMES IT IS BEHIND THE PRESSURE. AS THE OFFERINGS AND THE REPUTATION INCREASE, "MORE" BECOMES THE FOCUS. THIS IS DEFINITELY A TURNOFF TO OTHERWISE CHEERFUL GIVERS. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? GIVING IS A FORM OF WORSHIP AND JESUS SAYS, MY YOKE IS "EASY." What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? HE HAS A HEART FOR GOD AND PROVIDING FOR THE WORK OF GOD.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raph Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? I think Pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more, for some is because of not understanding the scripture and the essence of giving and for others is because of their personal desire - they want more for their personal use. Can greed be behind their pressure? Yes, for some greed can be behind their pressure. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? Pressure is incompatible with worship because when a person does something under pressure it means he does it while he does not want to do it or he does not understand the meaning or importance of doing it. But worship is a personal inward commitment, without being forced by anybody or any circumstances. What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person's heart? About the condition of a person's heart, cheerfulness while giving says that, the person who is giving is under no any pressure but has freely decided to give. The person's heart is happy as he understands that, he is giving to God; for His work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Grace Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? I think Pastors use guilt to try to compel people to give money for a variety of reasons. First, there may be a real need for the money and they are dealing with people who do not tithe, nor do the people understand the spiritual principle of tithing. Not to give to get something, but to give out of what God has graciously given you. It's all His money and we are only stewards of it anyway. It's out of desperation Pastors give over to "guilting" people into giving. Second, I have seen greed and pride the motivating factor. The more the money, the greater the ministry can "look". But, just because there is money, does not mean there is true Spirit led ministry. Last, I see the pressure put on a Pastor from higher ups in the church to run a "successful" church for the District/or other church government fractions a motivating reason. It's sad to see "business tactics" in practice in our churches, but it is there. I believe we need governing authorities, but not those who lack integrity or true Spiritual leading of a church and lean on Pastors for productivity, numbers and financially successful profits. Why is this incompatible with worship? Because worship is freely given, to God for the sole purpose of the joy of honoring God. To pressure in any of these areas is to strong arm either Pastors or congregants for worldly purposes. The heart of the matter isn't right. When one gives cheerfully and out of genuine love, by the Spirit, then the motivation and reasons for giving are good and in God's will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure?Unbelief/ ignorance and or ambition/ greed! I think many of the pastors/church leaders who manipulate/pressure/compel/or arm twist people to give are in unbelief of God's Sovereignty and love for His sheep and His under shepherds, and His promises to provide. Others may have their own agendas...either motivated by pride/ ego to support their own and ideas and prosperity or fear that THEIR ambitions won't be realized and Heaven forbid, they don't have the biggest church in town! Giving is an act of worship not a begruding duty!Why is pressure incompatible with worship?The Holy Spirit LEADS. Satan PRESSURES, MANIPULATES AND LIES..Jesus said My sheep know my voice. The hireling shepherd has to whip the sheep from behind like cattle to get them moving because they don't know his voice and therefore don't respond to his voice. Worship flows out of the abundance of the heart's response to God's love and grace. Pressure is the antithesis of true worship. I was a visitor to a small church a few years ago at an evening service and was not feeling well. After a half hour of worship, I sat down. Others around me sat down as well. The pastor then scolded those of us who sat down and said it "killed" the worship and then tried to get a frenzy going, with loud raucous music. I had gone to hear a pastor visiting from Africa who was to be the speaker, and perhaps this local pastor was trying to impress the African visitor, but totally in the flesh, pride, ego, legalism. If worship was "killed" he beat it to death with his anger. (I don't believe our "physical position" is legislated for worship...but worship flows from the heart.) Needless to say, the evening was ruined, the African pastor seemed troubled and his message was "flat", I was embarrassed because I was the first to sit down.....I never went back to visit that church, and that pastor died about 6 months later and "his" church "disintegrated. What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart?Cheerfulness speaks of trust, rest, and belief that one is unconditionally loved and accepted in the Beloved...free from guilt and fear. It speaks of generosity of spirit and a desire to freely give of what one has received from the Lord's Hand....it is a reflection of God's own character Who so loved He gave His Son and continues to pour out to His children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anne1151 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? BECAUSE MANY IN THE CONGREGATION HAVEN'T READ THE BIBLE ENOUGH TO KNOW THEY MUST CONTRIBUTE TO THE COMFORT OF THE BUILDING. THEY ASSUME, "SOMEONE" WILL PAY BUT NOT ME. THE PASTOR, UNDER THE PRESSURE OF PROVING RESOURCES AND COMFORT, MANY TIMES RESORT TO GUILT. WHILE THE PROCESS OF GUILT IS NOT PRETTY, IT IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY. Can greed be behind their pressure? MANY TIMES IT IS BEHIND THE PRESSURE. AS THE OFFERINGS AND THE REPUTATION INCREASE, "MORE" BECOMES THE FOCUS. THIS IS DEFINITELY A TURNOFF TO OTHERWISE CHEERFUL GIVERS. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? GIVING IS A FORM OF WORSHIP AND JESUS SAYS, MY YOKE IS "EASY." What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? HE HAS A HEART FOR GOD AND PROVIDING FOR THE WORK OF GOD.. Thank you for your answers. They really made me stop and think as I hadn't thought of giving as "my yoke is easy". It is however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anne1151 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) I am answering for my church only. Was very interested in seeing what some of the other answers on the forum were. Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? My pastor and the deacons recognize the churchs needs. They know the budget; the monies needed to pay the bills, support the missionaries, support the orphans. They sometimes have to encourage us to recognize these needs and to come up with extra money. Can greed be behind their pressure? Again speaking for my church, I don't think so. The pastor has a set salary, unaffected by the offering. The deacons are not paid. When it comes to some of the TV evangelists, I am afraid that might be the case. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? It isn't Gods way. He gives us the freedom to come to Him with our gifts, cheerfully. What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? You are right with God, you recognize His caring for you and want to give Him what is His, and more if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisbarak Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Some pastors use the guilt method because something is wrong in their church when out of joy & love for God parishioners should be giving and don't. It is really sad that we don't all do the least--tithe--what a difference in missions would take place--not to mention the growth of the individual members of the church. There is no joy in pressured giving. It actually turns people away.... We need to be joyful givers. Giving is actually worship--blessing God!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? Answer: 1.I think inducing Guilt and compelling people to Give,is one of the worst Perversion of the Gospel..Everytime I heard Malachi 3 being borbarded by the speaker before offering time,It just annoys me..especially when they will emphasize the cursing part if you don't give.and that you are robbing God if you don't give.... This is just like GODFATHER mafia boss style....and not God the Father.. Jesus already becomes a curse for us,so that we will be blessed: Gal 3;13-14-Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by BECOMING A CURSE FOR US(because it is written,Cursed is evryone who hangs on a tree).In order that in Christ Jesus the blessings of Abraham would come to the Gentiles so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith. NOW IF JESUS BECOMES MY CURSE,WHAT KIND OF CURSE CAN STILL DEFEAT WHAT JESUS HAS DONE FOR ME?....ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.... PRAISE BE TO MY GOD,JESUS CHRIST,WHO HAS REDEEMED ME,AND FREE ME FROM ALL THIS BONDAGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marloes Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? Guilt makes people do things they otherwise wouldn't do. Yes, there'll always be greedy 'leaders' but I'm sure God will punish them for that. We know from a certain denomination that their leaders live in palaces, while their followers are dirt poor. And a Dutch pastor asked for tithes and left for Kenya. If you give from your heart, you really acknowledge it's all God's property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwalane Mofokeng Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? They use guilt to try to compel people to give more because of greed. and it so wrong Can greed be behind their pressure? Yes Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? If you give from the heart with love that's the will of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross_laoshi Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? Any pastor or church leader who uses guilt to compel people to give more doesn't trust God for finances and doesn't know much about love or faith, they use guilt because because of their own lack of spiritual maturity and their worldliness. Greed could be behind their pressure in some cases. Pressure is not of God so its incompatible with worship of him. Cheerfulness speaks of freewill, faith and love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammie7 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I think that pastor and other chruch leader use pressure for giving is that they are looking to paid for the need of the chruch and also a lot of leaders are not in it because God have choose them but because they are in it for the money.Yes, greed is behind alot of it. It is not in agreement with worship because we are to give with a cheerful heart this is not a cheerful heart. It the condition of a person heart because they have thought about and have made up there mind what to give so when they go to chruch the joy is there because no one pressure them into giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? some Pastors use guilt to compel the congregation to give beacase of their belief that doing so will result in much more offerings. Greed may be behid this pressure but it could also be lack of faith in God- failing to remember that the church needs can be met without embarking in guilt motivation. Any one who gives cheerfully shows that his heart is in tune with that of the Lord and he/ she gives out of love and conviction that he/ she ought to give- self motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delivered Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? If a pastor is using quilt as a means of making the people feel obligated to give more, it is the pastor who is guilty of violating the moral standards of God, by not bringing truth to the people, it is not the amount one gives that will be pressed down and flowing over, it is the purpose of why you are giving, God delights in the cheerful giver, one whose heart has already decided to give, and is looking forward in doing so, so God can press it down to overflowing. However, if guilt is used by the pastor as a reminder to the people who have made a pledge to give and are not living up to that pledge, then it would be very much needed, for the people would be guilty of not living up to what they purposed in their heart to give. Can greed be behind their pressure? Yes it can be, and I would say have to say, "Woe, woe" to the pastor if it is the flesh that is behind their pressure. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? A sweet aroma of worship to God, is worship that comes from the heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilter Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I DO THINK PASTORS AND CHURCH LEADERS USES GUILT TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO GIVE MORE. WHAT THEY NEED DO IS EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES REFERING TO TITHEING ,LET THEM DECIDE. I THINK IF YOU GIVE WITH A LOVING HEART IT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT YOU GIVE I THINK IN A LOT OF CHURCHES IT IS GREED. WHEN YOU ARE UNDER PRESSURE IT IS EMBARRASING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. THEY COME TO WORSHIP GOD AND GET A LECTURE ON WHY THEY ARE NOT TITHEING. IT TAKES THEIR MINDS OFF GOD. MY FULL ANSWER IS GOD IS CONCERNED ABOUT HOW WE GIVE FROM THE RESOURCES WE HAVE AND DO WE GIVE WITH A LOVING HEART READ MARK 12:41-44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceerobert Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? So whoever is giving can give more eventough they are not required to give. Can greed be behind their pressure? Yes Why is pressure incompatible with worship? No one can force you to worship because it is not God's way. What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person's heart? The person is gladly giving without any remorse or any kind of pressure. They happily give all they have without any condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blezed Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? 1) Pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more in most cases because the church is in financial need. Sometimes we have to be encouraged and reminded of our obligations of giving a tenth of our offerings unto the Lord. 2) Yes, in some cases greed can be behind their pressure. As in anything we have a few bad apples that makes it bad for the ones that are trying to do the right thing. 3) Cheerfulness while giving say that you love Jesus. You gladly give because it has been commanded and it if a form of worshipping the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I think that the reason that pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more is because they don’t think that the people have the will to give. Greed could be behind their pressure but it could also be pride. Maybe if the people give more than they could build a bigger church. The reason that pressure is incompatible with worship is because we are supposed to be there because that is where we want to be. So the cheerfulness while giving says that the condition of the person heart is on the right place. They want to give to God what was his to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? I think people today can be stingy when it comes to the church and don't plan on it in their weekly giving. I have to admit many times when we have moved our budget in the church giving amount has suffered with the expense and the jolt of the move, plus finding a church. Many churches I have been in there are only a few who give. Some of time, some of money, some of acts of service to the sick or needy. Sometimes I think our attitude is more important to God than the amount. I think Satan loves to nurture stinginess in our hearts. Another thing to guard against and pray about. Lord please give us generous hearts. I don't care about others although I would like the whole church to be generous however I do care about my heart. If I don't have much then may I be generous in my words and smiles. God bless! Jen Romans 15:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clabudak Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 I think pastors use guilt to try to compel people to give more for two reasons. Greed could be one of the reasons, but I think that some pastors aren't equipped to lead people properly in giving and they use the wrong words. I think their hearts could be in the right place but their method is really lacking. Pressure is forcing someone against their will to do something; worship is loving God because you want to! Exact opposites. When a person gives with a cheerful heart, they are telling God that they are all for God doing whatever He wants with that money, that they are glad to be a part of the plan, and that they can't wait to see what happens as a result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashech Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Can greed be behind their pressure? Why is pressure incompatible with worship? What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? Not all but some who feel to challenge the congregation whilst others because of fear of their own welfare and name. Can greed be behind their pressure? Maybe. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? Pressure is external force applied to compel whilst worship is from our own inner being to give. What does cheerfulness while giving say about the condition of a person’s heart? Cheerfulness is a gesture produce from the inward man showing sign of good agreedment and willingness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Q2. (2 Corinthians 9:7) Why do you think pastors or other church leaders use guilt to try to compel people to give more? They deny the power of the Word of God. If they teach the pure Word of God on giving, the congregation would be generous in their giving. Can greed be behind their pressure? If it is, it is a misplaced guilt. Why is pressure incompatible with worship? Worship is an inward response of love for God, Pastors could tie the worship to God with giving. What does cheerfulness while giving say bout the condition of a person’s heart? The cheerful giver is giving from the heart. This is the heart God seeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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