Pastor Ralph Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis63 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? We in ourselves cannot cure anything. By the grace of God, through wisdom He imparts, a church leader should use the authority He has given them. As they exercise this authority in His authority the results should be godly. Be it the use of authority is rebuke, counsel or guidance, the end resolve should be according to and with the counsel the Lord gives. How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? God extended love towards us first, (1st John 4:19 we love him, because He first loved us), even thought we were in the wrong. God's love sought for me and kept seeking even when I tried to hide. We were offensive to Him, yet He made the moves to demonstrated His love for and towards us. He mounts a daily, actually a moment by moment love offensive. By Him heaping coals of fire upon our heads, by His conveying His compassion in our hearts (minds), for those whom He won over we make efforts not to displease Him, we want to show Him that we too love Him. A love offensive when recognized can not only begin to change the (spirit) mind / will of a dysfunctional congregation one person at a time, it can change them. Unfortunately not all will surrender to Self, some in a congregation were buried alive when they were baptized. This can be applied as we assemble as well for God works through us. A love offensive is an act of generosity marked by abundance, self-sacrifice, perhaps with an element of surprise, and always perfectly timed. When we embark upon this offensive maneuver surprisingly both parties may be surprised. A love offensive is not an insincere apology, nor is it simply announcing canned sentiments like with fake earnestness, "If there's anything I can do, just let me know." Neither a love offensive ignoring a person's need 'cause you don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. Love is an action word. There was this member of my church, many knew he was struggling, I made the statement I have made many times before, "If there's anything I can do, just let me know." Rarely did anyone let me know, they in turn would give another canned Christian sentiment, "I'm fine." I did a simple thing visit the person and tears flowed like the Niagara falls. According to him no one ever visited him, he did not share with me the problem. However he said that my visit was the greatest act of love he had seen since attending any church. Colossians 2:2, Philemon 1:7, Hebrews 13:1, 1st Peter 2:17, 1st Peter 4:8, 1st John 4:12 Jesus commands us to love as He loved. His standard for dealing with a spouse, a family member or a brethren is based on the internal workings of the heart, not the day-to-day desire to have someone conforming to our ideals. No one is perfect. But Christ loves imperfect people. He calls us to love one another. And love covers a multitude of sins. If this is our spirit, our love to others will not depend on their love to us, but we shall do as Christ did to us--love them. Jonathan Edwards What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? The character of church disciple is to carry it out, it's role is unlike the role of disciple in any environment. Rules and regulations are the foundational, and discipline helps to ensures that these rules and regulations are followed. Guidelines are integral, they help to ensure the safety of the people involved they also allow things to become as efficiently as possible. When administered to / in a congregation dysfunctional or not it must be administered according to divine authority of Scripture. The church leader or board must not become speck inspector nor should they seek find a passage of Scripture and use it in an misinterpreted manner, every passage of Scripture cannot be used outside of context. The authority administering church discipline should seek counsel of God, and as well recall the character of God when administering church discipline. The Spirit of the Scripture is extremely important more so than our opinions or dislikes, God's counsel must be the guide not the weapon offense. I was once a part of dysfunctional congregation, the pastor and the assistant pastor both recalled passages of Scripture that supported their defense. Neither Matthew 18:15-17 counsel, there are other passages I could refer to, this is not the end all when there is offense, however this one was not even considered. These two had offence and now the assembly is split, they assemble at separate localities where unfortunately some of the residual from the fall out is still amidst 2 years removed. There is a definite need for church discipline, there are some general causes, and also some specific causes, however from the understanding that I have be the cause general or specific the discipline is intended for restoration of a sinning brother and not to condemn anyone. Even in the case of excommunication, Paul did not give the guidance to be considered as a measure of punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis63 Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? As I was driving to work I thought on this question, and in my earlier response I responded from only one perspective. As I thought on it the discipline can be administered by an individual, a church leader, a church board, or the congregation regarding a matter of sin in the life of a believer, regarding disciplining a dysfunctional assembly. I again believe that the administration of discipline in a church it's main purpose should not be considered as punishment. It should be administered to train, restore, protect and maintain order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviours and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? I would think there has to be discipline in the church. The true word of God must be taught – not only what people like or want to hear. Also there has to be a fear of the Lord. We read in Acts 9:31, “Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.” The congregation has got to change their lifestyle and thinking from worldly behaviour to a Christ centred living with godly conduct. There has to be the love of Jesus in their heart, and a love for their fellow Christians. A less selfish outlook is called for. Unfortunately those who are disruptive cannot be allowed to jeopardise the whole church and will have to be changed with love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvoryEagle Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you "cure" a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? PRAYER, CONFRONTATION, & ACCOUNTABILITY. How can a "love offensive" begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? LOVE OVERSHADOWS HATE WHEN APPLIED FROM THE HEART. What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? OBJECTIVITY, FORTHRIGHTNESS, AND INTOLERANCE FOR SIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisbarak Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 The cure for these sins is a renewed relationship to God-a deeper relationship for all members. When a church is that bad off, they obviously have their eyes off Jesus. The second would be church discipline, if necessary. Discipline with love & acceptance if they repent. A love offensive would be a direct effect from everyone growing closer to God. Of course, that would have to be a daily offensive. The role of church discipline is to remove persons from the body who are stirring up trouble or sinning without repentance. We need to be answerable to our church officers whom God put in place. They must use wisdom & love & support the offending party. If they repent, they should be accepted back into the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins?The behaviors must be addressed from the pulpit, and the congregation put on notice that these behaviors are destructive and will not be tolerated. (Healthy boundaries) Teaching about schisms, and factions and their source (Satan and his demonic spirits sent to kill, steal and destroy) revealed and exposed, and much prayer for wisdom, discernment and unity. Exercise authority over these demonic spirits through prayer.Teaching from the pulpit on unity and love with exhortation to come up higher in Christ. If the factions are limited to a few who are known to be divisive, they should be taken aside and confronted in love. If they refuse to repent and desist from the sin, they should be removed from fellowship until they do repent. For the pastor to ignore or sweep under the rug these "cancers" in the body, they will destroy the church.How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation?Light dispels darkness. Love overcomes hatred and discord. The under-shepherd models both, and invites like motives and behavior from dysfunctional people. When the pastor acts according to scripture, the "sheep" feel safe with a strong leader (not a domineering, controlling despot), who teaches scriptural guidelines for a healthy church, the flock will thrive and grow in love for the Lord and for each other.What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation?Just as discipline in love must be given in the lives of recalcitrant children to train them in righteousness, likewise in a dysfunctional congregation. All congregations are dysfunctional to some degree, because we bring our dysfunctions with us into the church, but discipline, love and training in righteousness are key to growing us up in Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? A cure for a Church that is found to have its members engrossed in the sins of jealousy, gossip etc can be found through prayers, teaching, rebuking, and encouragement as well. This has to be done in love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation?styl a-P .5in'> 1.How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins?ow can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? PREACH THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST..HIS GOODNESS.. Apostle Paul is contradicting the Church Leaders and some of the Church members(2 Cor 12:21-I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve fo many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.) who profess to be Christians but are actually not. He is trying to establish His ministry,and that of Titus,that they are different and not asking any favor or monetary donations to survive,which is the practice of their Church Leaders and some older member who had infiltrated the church to whom Paul founded...These leaders has been distorting,and perverting the Gospel(Jude 1:4 For certain men have secretly slipped in among you men who long ago were marked out for the condemnation I am about to describe ungodly men who have turned the grace of our God into a license for evil and who deny our only Master and Lord,Jesus Christ.,telling everyone that it is ok to remain in thier sinful act,giving them license to do it)...also notice 2 Cor 12:21..sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced..... How to cure this is to expose it as oppose to the Scripture,and let the goodness of God make them repent..(Romans 2;4-...that God’s kindness leads you to repentance) 2.What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? The church should speak to the dysfunctional congregation,in Love...telling them what they are doing is wrong..and should give them a chance to change their mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Grace Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? A dysfunctional church can be cured by knowing the truth. All bad behaviors and sins come from not following God. The church needs to know the truth and the church needs to be in genuine relationship with God. Unless the Holy Spirit changes ones heart, even the best member will only have knowledge and religion. Relationship is key here. That is why love is so closely related. When we know the love of God, we are given hearts of flesh and love becomes our motivator. We love God and WANT to live in truth. We love others and produce fruit of the Spirit, we desire the truth of the Word, because we love the Word and we are changed from within. Love can change dysfunction, because it is accepting. No, we don't accept sin and we speak the truth in love, but we don't turn others away. Even the type of church discipline that has to remove a member for a time, is not abandoning that member unless they absolutely refuse help and actively stay in the sin they are confronted about. Then they need to be turned over to the Holy Spirit who can deal with them effectively. We though, for the most part, still seek to restore to Godly living and truth. We ache that a brother or a sister is separated from us. Love bears all things. We need to pray, seek out, be patient with those not living the truth, but be firm in teaching the truth, reminding of the truth and not being afraid to lovingly say sin is sin. When WE live the truth in love....the true way is seen. Church discipline HAS to be. Other wise the message is sent to everyone, that "anything goes." I'm really surprised at how many people in churches, think that "legalism" is labeled "Living in structure, order and truth with accountability." They think freedom is everyone doing their own thing....and that "love" is non confronting or "peace" is tolerating everyone and everything. Chaos is the result with fighting and ultimately undermining authority. Selfishness reigns. No one will live truth. Leadership must set a standard in truth but with love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? By treating all members the same, with love and respect, teaching the word with clearty. The love of Christ reaches the hearts of all those who are called to be His servants even though we sometimes fall and need lifting up with brotherly love and compassion. Church discipline is for building and strengting the believers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marloes Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? As a child, I had to go to a reformed church, of which some members lived in our neighbourhood. On Sunday they were christians, but on other days they gossiped really bad. My mama's 'cure' was to leave... She should have asked the reverend to have a sermon on James 3: 1-12. Then nobody would be rebuked in person in public. A love offensive wouldn't work very well, I guess. Some 'christians' behave so bad, the only thing you can do is pray for them. As for church discipline... If you have a problem with someone, you first talk to him yourself. If that doesn't work, you ask an official of the church. He can talk with authority. And I've heard the Amish throw disobedient people out. I guess most modern people would go to another church or leave at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raph Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you "cure" a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? You can "cure" a church of these kinds of behaviour and sins by speaking out openly and pray for the Lord's mercy to overcome these evils. How can a "love offensive" begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? A "love offensive" can begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congreation by seeing the love of God in a person who is showing love to the people who wrong him. What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? The role of a church disciploine in a dysfunctional congregation is to remain steady; not be be broken by the rebelling members of the congregation and and also to continue convincing the congregation to leave the dysfunctional behaviour and return to the normal church discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammie7 Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 When you have these sin in your chruch you have to go to the source of the problem it may be a group or a indivdual person,It change because love cover a lot of sin.If the person or people can't stop you have to ask them to leave the chruch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delivered Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you "cure" a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? A church must be bold, they must stand strong on their "faith" and "obedience" to Christ's commandments, and not allow such behavior to continue in the church; "A" CURE would be in having Godly men in charge, starting with the pastor. - There are too many churches today that tolerate sin and call it love. How can a "love offensive" begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? One who truly "loves" are on the "offensive" to do whatever they can to help others who are falling away from the truth to come back, Christ himself was on the "offensive" when He made it very clear to all dysfunctional congregations, He is not coming for a congregation of "dysfunctional" "lukewarm" Christians. What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? Church discipline is "VITAL" in all dysfunctional, sinning congregations, Paul made it clear, "put away from among you those "wicked" people. Christ is coming for a righteous people, the calling of the "CROSS" is that of a "HOLY PEOPLE" - "Love in the offensive" is bringing God's "TRUTH". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 The way that you can “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins is to have the tough love that Paul was talking about. I think that the way that you can “love Offensive” to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation is not to change your ways but the ways of the congregation. If you do that it will show them they there is no compromise to the true word of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross_laoshi Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? Good leadership loves and corrects the way Paul did, good leadership doesn't tolerate sinful destructive behavior, but corrects it in love. This love is not soft or compromising but direct and imploring and expecting. Church discipline corrects the problem, gives the answer and the right example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashech Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? Address the wrongdoing, confront it with love and gentleness. How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? Where there is God's love, miracles will happen. What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? To prevent and eliminate all that cause displeasures against God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? Pray! Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. Love your neighbor as yourself. God Bless! Jen Numbers 6:24-26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? A church is "cured" of these kinds of behaviors and sins by humbling themselves, being a people of prayer, a people who seek to know their God, and a people who turn from doing wicked things; then God will hear from them and heal "cure" them. How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? A “love offensive” can change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation and cause deep-rooted offenses. Where there is no love there will be no forgiveness and the congregation will soon disintegrate. What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? Church discipline in a dysfuctional congregation is to address errors and un-Christlike behaviors immediately upon discovery so as not to allow it leavening out into the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifee Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 a) We in ourselves cannot cure anything. By the grace of God, a church leader seeks to discern God’s wisdom,use the authority given to him,to teach/encourage about God’s desire for our behaviours with each other, with discipline,repentence, forgiveness and restoration. B)Jesus commands us to love as He loved. Christ loves imperfect people. He calls us to love one another. And love covers a multitude of sins.) c) discipline is intended for restoration of a sinning brother and not to condemn anyone. Paul did not give the guidance to be considered as a measure of punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? Only the Holy Spirit can cure a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins. Members of the congregation must want to repent and correct their dysfunctional congregation. People must want to intentionally change their lives and church culture. A dysfunctional congregation must recognize their dysfunction, people causing it, and sins that are causing it. Then as a group they must go into prayer and repent of that sin and ask God for healing and direction with love in their hearts. Church leadership must call into account those creating dysfunction. Many small churches in my area are constantly in a state of dysfunction. But nobody will hold anyone accountable, so there is endless ill feelings, meanness, church hopping, splits, etc. As a result, these churches have a terrible time in building membership because nobody wants to be a member of their church. These churches become toxic and have toxic reputations, yet they do nothing about. This goes on for decades. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royk Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? Oh heaven help us! How does the love offensive get started without the leaders doing it? Or is the church stagnant, or afraid to do things because it feels it can't afford to do it? Is the prayer contact of one leader going to determine everything? Prayer is the only answer, but what can one do other than pray and speak wisely, or be patient, or be buried after bapism. My heart is sick from reviewing this question; Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I can change. Change me Lord, change my heart, eyes AND EARS TO BE YOUR INSTRUMENT OF ;LOVE. LET THOSE HEARTS BE NOT BROKEN. MAY WE ALL BE MADE STRONG BY FEELING THE THORN IN OUR SIDE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonY Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? There are probably three ways to work on the problem; 1) As Paul is doing here, he names the sin, describes the sin. 2 )individuals can be confronted with their sins and they can be chastised.(disciplined) 3) Another method is by love, which covers a lot of sins. Love can be preached, love can be modeled and love can be discussed with individuals . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2014 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Q3. (2 Corinthians 12:20) How do you “cure” a church of these kinds of behaviors and sins? How can a “love offensive” begin to change the spirit of a dysfunctional congregation? What is the role of church discipline in a dysfunctional congregation? If I may, I will try to sum up question 3 and it's three parts in a short essay of a brother in Christ. Approximately 30 years ago I worked with a Christian brother who was a devote follower of Christ. But, like all followers we may sometime fall into temptation and sin. He was married, a father of two children. At some point in time he had sex with a women of the same congregation. Not too long after the incident, word got out of the sexual relationship, which evidently only occurred once. The church elders brought him before the board, where he confessed and was sorry it ever happened, as to the other partaker the feeling was mutual. Strict discipline was given, which I was never privy to. The entire congregation was told in essence of the offense. After all the discipline and humiliation before the congregation and the other party's spouse and his own, a divorce ensued. It took a long time for him to get over the ordeal of this situation. He admitted he was always of good moral character, but slipped up and gave in to the temptation. He quit the congregation he had gone to for a number of years. Our jobs took us in two different directions and I had seen him only on short occasions. I don't know if he found a new church congregation or not. I had often wondered how he ever remained a devote Christian after being hung out to dry. I know an attitude of love in dealing with this offense may have had a better out come. Not only had this offense split up some of the members, the rumors and gossip did not help matters. Once the offense was brought out into the open, it seems to have almost ship wrecked the whole church. An approach of love, understanding and forgiveness by the fellow believers, repentance and counseling of the accused, would have been a good course of action. It appeared to be the first offense for either party involved. The elders, leaders and congregation did not reach out with forgiveness or love, but with gossip, rumors and condemnation. A dysfunctional congregation of course can not be allowed to continue in sin or any untruths of the word. The church leader must insure that the believers are taught the true word of God and as believers they are to live life worthy of holiness, not to continue in all the unholy practices of the world. For it is by our life style, our prudence in behavior before the world that unbelievers will know we are true followers of Christ, living in his love and displaying it to them and our fellow believers in Christ. We should always remain in God's word, it restores us if we are tempted and if we fail and repent, God is merciful to forgive us and It helps us to resist Satan's slippery road. The Lord gives us strength in our hour of temptation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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