Q4. Negative Lessons

[tammie7]

In this I see that they went through the same thing

that people today do to get everything that they think is

important to sucess in the world and this is one of the

bad thing that I see in this lesson. It is also aeye open to

thing that we as christain have to stay away from.

[Lorraine Overstreet]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13)

It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters.

What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

David's corruption, no longer perceived by the people to be a righteous king.

His actions weakened the throne, "Made the enemies of the Lord show utter

contempt,

After his murder of his brother, Absalom perceived power and projected that image,

and positioned himself as a man of the people, while undermining his father.

Tribal resentment of David by Benjamin Sauls tribe.

Taxation and conscription implemented by David. This is never popular.

Yahweh's Judgement - Nathan prophesied "The sword will never depart from

your house". Now David is experiencing the Lord's discipline.

[royk]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

David has used his power to do immoral things; and he has expanded his dominion with political marriages as well with winning fights. He has become complacent, and it denial that his son would pull a coup.

In the politics of war, he has some traits as one who is out of touch. Still, he is a man who upon recognizing his errors shows deep regret and confession to God... so how can I judge him negatively? How can anyone judge his, except those in that moment who have forgotten all he did for his nation in the past, and how he was such a good worship leader.

[wifee]

4a)Nathan’s prophecy comes.2Samuel 12:11with God’s judgement.David’s lack of discipline in his own life,led to indiscipline in children.He promoted himself instead of God.He didn’t demonstrate need to enquire of God in decisions,and seemed less to depend on God.Because paid less attention to those around him&what deceipt taking place, he couldn’t take steps to challenge this to protect kingdom of Israel.

[cjenkins1388]

The negative lessons are spoiled children and employees, who do not respect you.

 

Getting caught up in earthly things and not depending on God anymore.

 

And knowing that all it takes is one sin to get the ball rolling and they just build and build.

[karynjg]

 (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

 

It is David's tender and sensitive heart that made him a man who passionately loved and followed God. But it is also that heart that cares about his sons so much, he cannot make a wise decision concerning them, which results in poor leadership.  We all have different personality traits and experiences which can be used to become healthy, strong and wise examples, or spiral us downward into sin and uselessness, which is what happened to David.

[WinstonY]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

A spiritual lesson that we can learn is that we are to use the talents that God has given us for his service. So often we neglect these talents, do not use them in God's service but use them instead to enrich ourselves. A person may have a great speaking Talent and use it for their own benefit instead of spreading the word of God.

[Zibuyile]

1.Negetive spiritual lessons

Importance of imposing discipline to our children , so that they don't  use our weaknesses against us

The sins of the fathers fall down to the children

 

[crissy464]

Fighting between father and son happens all the time
Davids sins

[Irmela]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13)

It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

I am afraid  but I fail to see that in the bit of information that we have of David's life and times, how everyone comes to the conclusion that David was not a good disciplinarian. I am not saying it wasn't the case.  Personally I feel that much of the pain and agony experienced in the downfall of his family is directly due to his sin with Bathsheba and then continuing further and having the loyal Uriah killed.  

The sin of Amnon was a conspiracy that was thought out by Amnon and his cousin and friend Jonadab.  Once he committed the rape, he felt sickened by what he had done and instead of repenting from his sin ,  he worsened it by throwing Tamar out or chasing her away.  This sin was similar to David's in that he took a woman , who was actually not his to take.  This sin caused bitterness among brothers and heart sore for a sister who was now tainted.  

The bitterness and anger smoldered in Absalom and caused him to plot the murder of Amnon.  David tried to cover up his own sin by having Uriah killed in military action.  Amnon was invited to a feast and then murdered.  Not a hero's death.  

Absalom , fled.  He stayed away from his father.  While he was away, he very likely learnt more evil than good from that side of his family.  Possibly that was the instigation of the revolt against his father, David.  Eventually he was brought back but banished from David's presence.   Hard front for a father to keep up, especially since we read that David loved his son.   

Absalom then throws a temper tantrum to try and right things, by setting Joab's field alight.   Damaging others livelihood.   Things really are going from bad to worse.

As if that was not bad enough:   Now Absalom tries to win the favour of the people that David had served and protected faithfully in his reign as king over all Israel.  

Again we see that, with lies, he eventually seals the deal and even asks David's blessing to go to Hebron with some people who are none the wiser, of his conspiracy.  Here he then proclaims himself as king.

So what we learn is that a ripple affect was caused by David's sin.  By now, it no longer just affects the immediate families, but the whole nation.   

Sin cannot be hidden. Somehow it comes out and hatches sins worse than the first and hordes of them.  

[Krissi]

 The lesson I learned is that the consequences of any earlier sin may destroy the rest of my life, and though I'm forgiven by God His forgiveness may or may not erase the punishment. Most Christians cling to the fact that we are "white as snow" after salvation, which is true, while ignoring or denying a second fact which is that forgiveness occurs in the heavenly realm, not the earthly, that while we enjoy purity in the next life, we are still trapped in our sin and it's consequences in this life, in the earthly realm. 

We have a split life, part heavenly, part earthly. The consequences have to do with the life to we are now in, on earth. Can God erase the consequences in this life?  Yes. Will he? Who knows. I think He will if it dovetails into His overarching plan. 

One of the reasons why people are so drawn to forgiveness is that their consciences are pricked and salvation is preached as a "free" salve for the disturbed conscience. Jesus paid the price so we don't have to. We feel lighter becuase we think that our sin is totally erased -- forgiven.  We do not understand that though Jesus may not "see" our sin when he looks at us, that sin is still there in it's ability to persist and ruin the rest of our life, as it did with David.

This story has two parallel lessons, the first about the horror of sin's consequences, even the consequences forgiven sin, and the second having to do with Absalom's behavior. Personally, I find Absalom's behavior, the question for power and prestige, particularly at the expense of one's parents, very understandable. But the fear of living today ... now  ... that's truly depressing. 

What do we do for God? We acknowledge our sin and ask for forgiveness. Then God forgives. That is what He promises us. No more. No less.

I wish there was another spiritual insight that denies this. I wish that forgiveness included this life as well as the next. Life would be so much lighter if I thought that deep remorse and regret would slowly eat away at the consequences of sin, but I no longer think God cares about our suffering in this life, or not as much as I thought before. I used to think that God's love guaranteed His intervention and willingness to help us escape the messes we make, but now I think that though his love may be real in an abstract sense, in daily life, we plod along in the muddy mire of our messes. Can we ask him to relieve our horrible burdens IF they're self-caused? I think we can, but he may choose not to. 

 David loved God passionately but still sinned; God saw His love, forgave David, yet let David live out the consequences of sin. 

Sometimes God intervenes to help us. Sometimes He has compassion on us. Isn't that what deliverance is? Deliverance is the this-worldly absolution of the consequences of sin, either our own sin or just the sinful soup in which we swim.  

I am very sensitive to my own sins, highly aware of sinful attitudes and behaviors, today and in the past -- God may not remember my sin but I do. The notion that every sin adds up inside of me, that my life slowly grinds to a halt as the consequences build up ... I really want to deny this truth. It is too much to bear. I despair over the past but can't do anything about it. I want to be used but see in myself sin that may negate my usefulness.

Frankly, I need a God who intervenes in my life more, this life -- right now -- and both negates the consequences of past sins as well as prevents me from sinning more. I want an activist God. A God who routinely delivers me. I want to feel light now, not wake up to an ever increasingly dark future.

• David loved God. He also ruined his own life.
• God forgave David. God did not deliver David from his sins during his life.

"Show me how to think about this, Lord. Give me peace inside and confidence moving forward, please. Amen"

[Nicolaas A.P. Mostert]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13)

It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

David seems incapable of restoring order to his family or to his kingdom.

[LadyT]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find? God keeps his word. Sins of the father can extend to the son. God doesn't always make things happen directly, but can allow for things to happen.