Q4. Negative Lessons

[Pastor Ralph]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

[csreeves]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

Dad and son fighting and hating him so much he was jealous of his position. Fighting begots fightening

[IvoryEagle]

It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. ONLY THAT LOVE HIDES A MULTITUDE OF SINS...

What negative spiritual lessons do you find? TEST THE SPIRITS, THE HEART IS DECEITFUL...

[imastartu]

Negative lesson: The wages of sin is death. Spiritual death has permeated David's reign and family. Although God forgives sin, there are consequences to sin. Something for us to consider when we decide to sin.

[Gerbrand van Schalkwyk]

The most important lesson for me is to be obedient in all we do. Because David didn't live out the authority God gave him he went through a lot of hard times.

He didn't maintain discipline in his military command, thus the same military leader could bring Absalon onto the scene later on to destroy his happiness for a while.

He didn't keep discipline in his family so his family was torn appart, his daughter was raped, his son was murdered by his other son, his son wanted to kill him and hated him, his military leader disobeyed him again and killed his son. Becuase he neglected his duty in authority his kingdom and family life fell appart.

He also didn't keep self discipline, that is where his whole problem began. Instead of focussing on God, he gave in to the desires of the flesh. Keep focussing on God and you will receive guidence from God.

Because he didnt keep self discipline 2 of his sons followed his examples, one seeked illigal sex and the other didnt care to murder someone to reach his goal.

Also because he didnt keep self discipline, he was not aware of what was happening around him. He himself plotted and planned, but he didnt see when other plotted against him. if he stayed in the will of God he would have received warning and guidence, but now he missed these things

[charisbarak]

Lack of discipline in David's personal life, lack of discipline of his children, lack of repentance on David's part, he didn't keep involved in what was happening in his kingdom. It's not mentioned, but somehow it didn't seem he was relying on God as he had before.

[Rhndwsh]

1. Prophecy. Nathan's prophecy (12:11-12) comes to pass--with terrible results. God's judgement is inevitable

2. Learned Behaviors. The sins of the father often becomes the sins of the son. Our children see us and emulate our behavior.

3. Discipline. To neglect our responsibility to discipline shws a lack of love for our children. When the king excuses his children for blatant crimes, he rapidly loses any credibility for righteousness and justice .

4. Situational Awareness. Pay attention to what is going on around you. Take action early, if you need to. David should have been aware of Abalsom's attempts to undermine him, and taken steps to protect him and his kingdom.

[hanks]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13)

It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters.

What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

There is so much negativity in these lessons. By not disciplining our children in love can have disastrous consequences as seen here with David and Absalom. I know we all want the best for our children but unfortunately they have the tendency to follow our weaknesses instead of our strengths. We obviously do not want them making the same mistakes we have made by disobeying our Lord. So we should not be surprised if they do. Another negative lesson we can observe is that bitterness and anger can have devastating effects on our lives, as witnessed by Absalom’s hate and subsequent murder of his brother Amnon. Then again we see Absalom’s actions are totally opposed to God’s way. He promoted and exalted himself, undermining his own father’s reign as king, causing untold chaos and death as well as leading so many people astray with all his lies and manipulation. The lesson here is if you do evil you will ultimately be called to account, as we see in Absalom’s untimely death. David is also to blame in not taking control of the situation early and stamping his authority on his reign and reacting immediately to any form of betrayal.

[Jen]

1. Prophecy. Nathan's prophecy (12:10-11) comes to pass -- with terrible results. God's judgment is inevitable.
   
2. Learned Behaviors. The sins of the father often become the sins of the son. We don't sin in isolation. Our children see us and emulate our behavior. Parents, your most important ministry is to raise your children in the Lord by your godly example.
   
3. Discipline. We must discipline our children so long as they are under our authority. In many cultures, children are considered adults in their late teens. In other cultures, children are under their parents' authority far longer. We must do what we can. To neglect our responsibility to discipline shows a lack of love for our children (Proverbs 3:12; 13:24; 19:18; 22:15; 23:13; 29:15; 29:17). Showing favoritism to your own children rather than disciplining them lowers you in others' minds. When the king excuses his children for blatant crimes, he rapidly loses any credibility for righteousness and justice.
   
4. Situational Awareness. Pay attention to what is going on around you! Take action early, if you need to. David should have been aware of Absalom's attempts to undermine him, and taken steps to protect himself and his kingdom. In this case, neglect is extremely costly. Leaders in churches and other organizations need to know who is conspiring against them. We serve Christ in a fallen world.
   

We can never let our guard down, must never stop reading the Word and praying, and must always obey our Lord.

God Bless!

Jen

Romans 15:13

[Travis63]

It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

There are so many spiritual lessons learned here, so many! Absence does not make the heart grow fonder! Although parents have been blessed to work, they must not negate parenting from a godly perspective. When we fail, our children get CAUGHT IN THE WEB [Worldly Entanglements Bondage]

David’s parenting style can documented, they can be contrived from many perspectives (good or bad) some parents simply refuse to discipline their children. Discipline do not necessarily mean readily using the rod of correction, counsel and other measures should be implemented. The negative from David's parenting style should never be duplicated.

Nothing in scripture tells us because David was a king that he spoiled his children, nonetheless the same requirements / responsibilities we have as parents, he had. To mention a few, commitment, accountability, self-sacrifice, involvement.

Often times more is caught than taught, they see what they perceive we value. If we take a trip into the far country they may take an excursion into the far country, they follow us. What makes it painful is that we come out and sometimes they don’t make out. We make it out with some scars and bruises. But our children following us may not make it out. David’s first born raped his daughter; in scripture we don’t know if David disciplined this son in an acceptable manner nor defended the daughter. The forth son, he didn’t get the proper instructions so he grew up thinking he could do whatever he wanted to do. He set up a kingdom in opposition to his father’s kingdom while he was ill. So Solomon, when he became King he had him killed. The third son killed the first son because he raped his sister; he rebelled against his father, slept openly with David’s concubines. Solomon followed his father to the throne and the far country with many women, wives (divided heart, laid the foundation for a divided house, which resulted in a divided kingdom). When families fail to communicate, communities become combat zones. When we fail as parents our children are, Caught in the Web. When we fail to raise our children to be our brethren, then they become our enemies; because they become the enemies of our king.

[Highohfaith]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

1.) If you do not obey God, willfully sin, you will surely know God's wrath.

2.) If you take your eyes off God, God will takes his eyes off you.

3.) PAY ATTENTION! "Those who have ears let them hear."

4.) Do NOT get so 'puffed' up that you forget your sovereign creator. Remain humble and thankful always, in good times and bad, in wealth and poorness, in sickness and in health. No mater what the problem is bring it to God. "Our Yoke is heavy but His is light." Give him your all and all. Be thankful in ALL things. Trust God.

5.) Do not act on your own will.

6.) Sin and disobedience affects innocent people, God's wrath can last from generation to generation.

7.) Do not feel that you need not be accountable for your actions or 'inactions', because you are!! God holds us accountable. Do not think that God isn't watching. HE IS!

8.) Do not deceive God. e.g. Saul deceived God, and God took his Holy Spirit from him.

9.) Letting greed, deceitfulness,power, sin,guilt, lack of faith take root. Hebrews 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Teach your children in a Godly manner and live your life in obedience and accordance to God's will as an example to your children and others, glorify God!

[Cherokee]

Yes it is hard to find a positive in this lesson but it does show that God's love is unconditional and neverending. There are concequences but He is a faithful and forgiving God who keeps His word.

The negative lesson I see is that sin is like domino's. One following the other. Having to continue to sin to cover up the previous one. It's like entrapment. We need to stay close to the Lord and seek Him in all things. When we do sin we need to take responsibility, repent, ask forgiveness and learn by the mistake.

[Lion of Grace]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

The negative spiritual lessons I see are:

Becoming lax in following God and being obedient to God.

Lack of integrity in raising children. They do as they see us doing.

Failing to be a responsible parent training children in the way they should go. Weakness in teaching them character. Overlooking serious sin.

Weakness in carrying out authority gaining respect from our children.

Allowing bitterness and hatred to fester. Lack of communication.

Pride and it's downfall.

Ignoring justice/neglect

Deception and coveting.....all grow into serious problems.

Family chaos, lack of love and loyalty.

Mostly though....this family slowly turned from God and that was the real reason they all declined in favor. When David walked closely with God he had success and favor. When he became prideful and weak....he lost favor. It is a sad ending to such a marvelous life.

[Guitar Jim]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

First and foremost is the lesson that . . . "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of The Living God". I forget where in the New Testament that verse is found but I see David's decline as the punishment God meted out to him. We of the New Covenant are much better off in that we have Jesus as our intecessor with God. David didn't. He bore the price of his sins in this life. That having been said, Christians are not immune to God's correction and discipline. We can't wontonly sin and then confess it and expect no repercussions. That's a difficult doctrine to reconcile with the whole "God is Love" doctrine. God can restore us if we are truly contrite of heart but sometimes He chooses not to. THAT'S a tough cross to bear.

[JanMary]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

Chapter 13 is a study in witchcraft, manipulation and deception, re: Tamar and the plot to enable Amnon to rape her. (beginning with Jonadab, David's nephew, which involved deceiving David so he would send Tamar to her "sick" half brother. I see in this that David's children either were not taught about David's Lord and his Love for Him, or they were disillusioned because of the way David lived in later life after they were born, so they had no interest in God. Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it.

David's zeal and love for God seemed to wane after his affair with Bathsheba, and his governing the country and overseeing his family seemed minimal and distracted. Perhaps lingering guilt (self loathing?) for his sin and the terrible consequences took a toll on his ability to engage in his duties. We can be forgiven but unwilling to forgive ourselves.

The typical dysfunctional family....Ignore the elephant in the room, sweep things under the rug, "Don't talk- don't tell", "Do as I say, not as I do", "Maybe if I ignore this it will go away", silent treatment....rather than confronting in love, spare the rod and spoil the child...no discipline (although with the many wives and children David had, I can't imagine how one father could have much impact on the family). Amnon followed his father's example of forcing himself on one who was not his! Absalom followed his father's example of "murder by hire", to get rid of a problem individual...his brother.

Ch. 14, more witchcraft, manipulation and deception, through Joab, rather than speaking directly to David! Absalom in exile for several years, had children David had never seen...his silent treatment festered into mutiny as Absalom tried to anoint himself King while David was still alive, after "working the crowds" to ingratiate himself to the people in ch 15.

David's heart was after God, but apparently not "after his children" enough to teach and train them. He was a detached father. They were self willed, while David seemed self absorbed, tired, and impotent, as Eli the priest had been with his wayward sons.

[Jwalane Mofokeng]

(2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

Condemnation, and Fail to forgive himself, Since God said to David Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me. This is what the Lord says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity on you. He can't even rebuke his son"s in their wrong doings, is like the word keep coming back to him for what he did.

We know David he is the man with the heart after God, he could have pleaded with God about the his household situation.

[Delivered]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters.

It would be a SAD and GRIM chapter if what I learned was - it is ok to blame others and their weakness on my "SIN".

It would a SAD and GRIM chapter if what I learned is that God's judgment and the consequences of "SIN" was just for DAVID and his family.

It would be a SAD and GRIM chapter if what I learned is God's judgment and the consequences of "SIN" are not for us today.

It would be a SAD and GRIM chapter if what I learned was that it was because of David's SIN and his failures as a man that God made his family "SIN".

What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

The negative spiritual lessons I find are that of a "POSITIVE" lesson.

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin WILLFULLY (is to DESPISE God’s laws) after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for our sins, but a fearful and certain judgment and fiery indignation, which will devour the adversaries.

(Heb 10:28) He that DESPISED Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses :---( 2Sa 12:13) And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, the LORD also has put away thy sin; THOU WILL NOT DIE.

(2Sa 12:9) You DESPISED the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? You killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and had slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon. (Heb 10:29-31) of how much sorer punishment, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.

The POSITIVE message is (1Th 4:6) that no man go beyond and defraud his brother in "ANY MATTER"; because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have been forewarned.

(1Th 4:7-8) God has not called us unto uncleanness, but unto HOLINESS,

HE THEREFORE THAT DESPISETH DESPISETH NOT MAN, BUT GOD, WHO HATH ALSO GIVEN UNTO US HIS HOLY SPIRIT.

[haar]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

There is need to remain faithful to God all the time so as to remain in his favour, protection and peace. David slowed down in his relationship with God and even sinned. The consequences were that God punished him through the hands of men, even his blood relative, his son Absalom.

[PATCH]

It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

We take God's goodness and mercy for granted. He is the ultimate judge and his judgement is inevitable.isciple Lessons

Our children learn from us - especially our bad ways. As parents we are to be godly examples to their children. We must never assume that our children will never sin the way we do.

Parents must discipline their children so long as they are under their authority. The problems with today's parenting style is that parents give their children too much freedom and freewill and discipline is seen as abuse. Also parents and children alike prefer that children leave their homes earlier (in age) than they can actually manage. Showing favoritism among chidren is also something that parents should never do. The favored child may use this fact to his advantage whilst the less favored child may feel hopeless and develop a low self esteem.

We must be alert at all times. We cannot assume that just because the things happening around us involve family members, close friends and even church friends/members, they will ultimately sort themselves out. If we get a sense of something not working out right from the start, the best things to do is to take action early so that things do not escalate to an unmanageable situation.

[Old Jerry]

The negative spiritual lessons I find is that one should act as soon as the incident occurs because letting it go it will only get bigger. You should always discipline the ones that you love when they are not doing what is right.

[Raph]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

The negative spiritual lessons I find are ****, lies, disrespect, rape, murder, jealousy, irresponsibility.

[Semeion]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

• 2 Samuel 13- Incest, rape: a very negative lesson from Amnon and then he hated hsi sister after he raped her.
  

• 2 Samuel 13- Revenge, vainglory on Absalom's part in wanting to kill Amnon...only to be crowned prince himself.
  

• 2 Samuel 15- Absalom winning people over with kisses and bad PR(which succeeds): he did this to have the hearts of Israel.
  

[Platoz]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13)

It's difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

There's always a lesson to be learned from a poor example. My boss used to say that one of his family members was only good for showing what a bad example is. Also, I used to always make sure that I would tell my kids when someone did something stupid that had a horrible result (more than expected). Like I said you can always learn from someones poor choices in life.

Lessons learned from negative spiritual lessions:

• 
  The sins of the father is often the sins of his children. I see this a lot. How can it ever get broken? The cycle just keeps on repeating itself.
  
• 
  If your children are still under your care, it is your responibility to discipline them. He should have done this Amnon and maybe Absolom wouldn't have killed him because Absolom was really wanting to get of him so that he could become the next king.
  

[blezed]

It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters. What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

Negative spiritual lessons I find is that we must not allow ourselves to become arrogant when God is working in our lives. We must remain humble. David had forgotten this when tried to cover up his sin thru lying and killing. Igoring his children wrong doing added fuel to the fire which caused rape, disrespect, hatred and more killing.

[Commissioned]

Q4. (2 Samuel 13-15:13) It’s difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters.

It is difficult to find positive spiritual lessons in these sad and grim chapters because it is centered around a dysfunctional family, a people that is considered to be "people of God," and decides not to follow God's anointed and appointed leader.

What negative spiritual lessons do you find?

The negative spiritual lessons that is found here highlights how the blessings God bestows upon us can be used to reject his will and for man to establish his own will. "In all Israel there was not a man so highly praised for his handsome appearance as Absalom. From the top of his head to the sole of his foot there was no blemish in him." (2 Samuel 14:25) Absalom had everything and yet wanted his father's crown too.