Q4. Living in Babylon

[Commissioned]

Q4. (18:4) We Christians are instructed to be "in the world" "but not of the world" (John 17:15-19). One interpretation has been to be hermits, ascetics, to distance ourselves from the political process, and to adopt stringent dress and behavior codes. Another interpretation is to be "salt and light" (Matthew 5:13-16) in the world so that we might bring about cleansing and change through God's spirit. Where do you think the balance lies? How and when should we fulfill the command, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins...."?

We are to be in the world and not of the world. We live in the world and are obligated to socially contribute to the economic and governance of the world, but at the same time our priority is to be the salt and light of the world. We must not allow the world system to taint us but instead we must bring the gospel to the world and allow the gospel to bring purity to those who accept Christ. We fulfill the command, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins...." when we live in the world but are not of the world.

[hanks]

Q4. (18:4)

We Christians are instructed to be "in the world" but not "of the world" (John 17:15-19).

One interpretation has been to be hermits, ascetics, to distance ourselves from the political process, and to adopt stringent dress and behavior codes.

Another interpretation is to be "salt and light" (Matthew 5:13-16) in the world so that we might bring about cleansing and change through God's spirit.

Where do you think the balance lies?

How and when should we fulfil the command, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins...."?

I don

[l.a.]

Q4. (18:4) We Christians are instructed to be "in the world" but not "of the world" (John 17:15-19). One interpretation has been to be hermits, ascetics, to distance ourselves from the political process, and to adopt stringent dress and behavior codes. Another interpretation is to be "salt and light" (Matthew 5:13-16) in the world so that we might bring about cleansing and change through God's spirit. Where do you think the balance lies? How and when should we fulfill the command, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins...."?

I believe that God expects us to change, and use our new lives to witness to others. 'Who lights a candle and hides it under a bushel?' We are to use our freedom in Christ to help others become free as well. I recall Jesus telling a story of servants that were given a portion to 'invest.' The master was severe with the servant that did not try to invest his portion, but buried it until his master returned. We are obligated to spread the good news. God has given us spiritual gifts; some evangelism, some serving, some intercessing, etc. We are to use our gifts to His glory.

[Ramon]

Answer:

Rev. 18:4- And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not her plagues.

When Jesus give us the commission to

[Lion of Grace]

To be "in the world, but not of the world." is a call to go out into the world to preach and to make a difference. We hold fast to and stand strong in our beliefs in the midst of those living worldly lives. We are the salt and the light to these people as we tell about our faith and show them our faith lived out. We can't go and hole up somewhere becoming inclusive. That breeds spiritual pride/legalism and is not fruitful for advancing God's Kingdom. We are to witness to sinners in love and truth, but not be like them or allow them any influence over us.

Yet, the instruction to "Come out of her so you might not share in her sins" is a specific instruction for a people that were living in an ultimate "practicing/non repentant" pagan society. They were warned to not take part in any of the rituals, idolatry and worldliness that made up the society. There is a specific distinction between God's people and those who had CHOSEN to not follow God but were willfully engaging in sinfulness. There are specific times when God sees and knows that a people are NOT going to turn and be saved. As in, Sodom and Gomorrah or the times of Noah. Then a clear separation/fleeing is required. We need to ask for discernment in these cases. We may be sent for a time to reveal truth, but sometimes truth is rejected and the fruit won't be there. We ourselves, can become endangered living among the sinfulness. All to often we absorb stinking thinking without even being aware! It kind of creeps in unaware! At that point, it is no longer for our benefit or for the benefit of the Kingdom to remain in the situation. There is great caution here though. We MUST be prayerfully seeking on our situations all the time. Sometimes fruit comes when you least expect it!

I'm reminded of Matt. 10:5-15 and the instruction given to the twelve disciples as they were sent out. In it, they are instructed, "If some home or town will not welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet. I assure you that on the Judgment Day, God will show more mercy to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah than to the people of that town." So there are limits....and they are seriously to be discerned.

[dlite80]

The balance lies in Jesus Christ as our role model and guide. Not only did Jesus choose to associate with sinners but the light within Him transformed their lives! However, He didn

[tammie7]

Q4. (18:4) We Christians are instructed to be "in the world" but not "of the world" (John 17:15-19). One interpretation has been to be hermits, ascetics, to distance ourselves from the political process, and to adopt stringent dress and behavior codes. Another interpretation is to be "salt and light" (Matthew 5:13-16) in the world so that we might bring about cleansing and change through God's spirit. Where do you think the balance lies? How and when should we fulfill the command, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins...."?

To me this mean that we are to in the world to do God will to spread his word but we are to do as the

world do and one of the things that I believe is that when you are talking to a person that God will

let us know when this person heart is ready for his word. We are to do as Jesus did he was in the world

but not of the world.

[van]

The balance lies in doing what we are told to do, not be worldly and to let our light shine for all to see that Christ is Lord of our life! Like salt, followers of Christ stand out as those who enhance the favor of the world. This should be done as long as blood is running warm throughout your body. If the Holy Spirit is guiding you in your life, then you don't have any problem to doing what Christ command you to do!

[tgandy]

Being a Matthew 25 Christian is being "in the world and not of the world" I am sad to say.  I am 60 years old and I have seen many changes in the morality of our society.  Many people care only about themselves and what they can get.  Jesus care more about his fellow man.  He feed the poor, cared for the sick, visited those in prison, and clothed the needy.  How many of us do that.  The greatest commandment is the love. When we do not do this we care more for this world and we are of it.  When we live as Jesus taught, we simply live here and are not of the world.

[tgandy]

Being a Matthew 25 Christian is being "in the world and not of the world" I am sad to say.  I am 60 years old and I have seen many changes in the morality of our society.  Many people care only about themselves and what they can get.  Jesus care more about his fellow man.  He feed the poor, cared for the sick, visited those in prison, and clothed the needy.  How many of us do that.  The greatest commandment is the love. When we do not do this we care more for this world and we are of it.  When we live as Jesus taught, we simply live here and are not of the world.

[Craig]

Q4. (18:4) We Christians are instructed to be "in the world" but not "of the world" (John 17:15-19). One interpretation has been to be hermits, ascetics, to distance ourselves from the political process, and to adopt stringent dress and behavior codes. Another interpretation is to be "salt and light" (Matthew 5:13-16) in the world so that we might bring about cleansing and change through God's spirit. Where do you think the balance lies? How and when should we fulfill the command, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins...."?

 

The Balance lies in living our Christianity in the world we are moving through --  being salt and light.  Because we operate in this world doesn't mean we have to be the world.   We are here until we die or Christ comes again, so we should carry out the Great Commission as Jesus instructed.

 

Coming out of the world means walking away from the world's value system.  Rejecting Satanic values and embracing Godly values.  Paul and the other Apostles moved in the world as ambassadors for Jesus Christ.  We should minister and witness to those around us, letting the light of Jesus Christ shine through us to a dark and fallen world.  We don't have to conform to this world and its ways. We should honor, glorify, and serve God while we are on this planet as an opposition force against Satan and evil.   We should be joyous in the process to thank God, delight in His creation, and to allow others to see God in us.  So, we can be physically in the world, but spiritually, for now, we are members of the Kingdom of God on this planet.

 

This should be happening in our lives now.

 

[JoanG]

I believe that we need to show our light to the world. We need to go out to all nations and share the love of Jesus with everyone. We cannot shut ourselves off from the world, or else, we are not following the path that Jesus set before us and the apostles. I feel that everyday, we need to search our consciousness to determine if we need to let go of some worldly sin. we need to keep separate from sin but still live in this world. Be an example to others. If we go shopping, we don't need to buy the biggest or the best of something, we just need to buy what is sufficient to take care of our needs. We need to avoid temptations and set the examples.

[Guitar Jim]

Q4. (18:4) We Christians are instructed to be "in the world" but not "of the world" (John 17:15-19). One interpretation has been to be hermits, ascetics, to distance ourselves from the political process, and to adopt stringent dress and behavior codes. Another interpretation is to be "salt and light" (Matthew 5:13-16) in the world so that we might bring about cleansing and change through God's spirit. Where do you think the balance lies? 

 

I think there always have to be those on the coal face, so to speak. If we adopt the thinking that the church is there and if people want to be saved they know where to find it, we're not obeying the great commission to go out and preach the Gospel. 

That having been said, if it weren't for the monks in the middle ages we wouldn't have a Bible to read today! They devoted their lives to accurately copying by hand the entire Word of God.

So how far into the world should we go? I suppose it's like undercover cops who get right into the trust and confidence of criminals in order to eventually arrest them . . only in our case we're trying to save them. There are many para-church organisations that minister to some of the most unloved and unloving groups of people on earth. Those in prison, outlaw motorcycle gangs, etc. While it may at first seem to be cool to hang out with outlaws, it's not. Not when you're expected to take part in extreme violence and in serious crime. These people aren't gonna come to church, so Christians need to reach out to them. I myself was involved marginally in the Christian Boardriders movement in the early 1970s. Our founder was the pastor of a church that was about to be closed down due to a lack of members when he obtained permission to use it and its facilities to make it into a "half-way house" type center to help drug addicts and the homeless, as well as minister to surfers who weren't welcome in regular churches because they had long hair and seemed too alternative. In the city where I now live there's a full on Biker church called The Tribe of Judah that minsters to bikers. The Body of Christ is composed of many parts.

 

 

How and when should we fulfill the command, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins...."? 

 

That is for God to let us know. When Noah and his family entered the ark they only had a week until the flood came. It took Noah 100 years to build the ark and in all that time the people around him must have known why he was doing that, but didn't care enough to repent.

The angels rescued Lot from Sodom the very morning of the disaster that destroyed that city. Now I don't know how strong a witness Lot had been in Sodom, but when the crunch came he had the guts to stand up to the town to protect the two "men" he was sheltering, not necessarily knowing they were angels. God is able and willing to save us when the time is right.

The command here in Revelation to come out of Babylon may be meant for the people living in the end time when the final destruction of Babylon was about to happen. Until then we are to be salt and light in the world. That's my thinking anyway.

[Old Jerry]

I think we should be involved in the politics of the world. We need to have some kind of sanity in this process and with God’s help we will be able to make a change. I think that the command “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins…” is telling us to talk to God daily and go against the things of this world. But we have to be active in order to go against the things of the world.