Q3. When the Perfect Comes

[Pastor Ralph]

Good Christians sometimes disagree about this question. Remember to be loving in your answer.
Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10) When do you think the “perfect” comes? (See my “Excursus” before answering.) How do you support your interpretation?

[WinstonY]

Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10) When do you think the “perfect” comes?

 How do you support your interpretation?

 

The Greek 'teleois' has several possible meanings - perfect. maturity, of full age, completeness.The perfect then in 9 and 10

'9 For we know in part

and we prophesy in part, 
10 but when perfection comes, 
the imperfect disappears.

 

must be referring to the time when  ' we shall see face to face.' What a glorious time when we see the Lord face to face. Now we see only dimly, like looking at our image in a pool of watery. But then we will see perfection face to face. It will be a time of a new creation-when the wolf lies down with the lamb, when the New Heaven and new Earth are let down from heaven. It will be a time of perfect ecstasy when we see the Lord face to face. The Lord comes for each of us upon our death, he is standing by the right hand of the father waiting for us to cone home. At this time we will see perfectly, we shall understand perfectly. Paul is telling us of the wonder of heaven that he was caught up into, the perfection he saw but now we see only in part. But than face to face we will see perfection. 

 

 

[pickledilly]

I’ve never had this settled before, having been told by our pastor that this does refer to the completed Canon of Scripture but not fully accepting that.  This explanation was given as support for the concept that the “apostolic gifts” of prophecy and tongues has passed.  However, I do think this time/state of perfection is more likely referring to the time of Christ’s return to earth.

 

When we keep vs.10 in context with what comes immediately before and directly after it, it definitely is set in terms of a future time or condition when all is revealed, we are in the direct presence of Christ, and we have full knowledge/understanding of all things we were unable to fathom in our humanity.  As to gifts of prophecy and tongues in our world today, I believe there is much misuse and misplaced understanding.  Paul is clear that they are not for personal edification, but for the building of God’s kingdom and spreading of the Christ’s Gospel message, even to places of unfamiliar languages.  I certainly cannot judge anyone's intent or experience, but what I’ve seen has appeared very emotional and centered on self, not spiritual or beneficial to the Body.

 

[parkerslope]

When do you think the perfect comes?

I believe the "perfect" has come with the entire Bible being put together for our instruction.  The Bible does say that no one should "add to it or take anything away" from it - upon a penalty.  

 

How do you support your interpretation?

The use of the Spiritual gifts in the Book of Acts was only for gathering the interest of people to listen to the gospel.  It was not recorded that the gifts were used in the assemblies.  They were also used to prove that Jesus was the Christ.

1.  Spiritual Gifts ceasing - 1 Corinthians 13 says that the "major ones" will stop at some future time.

 

2.  Passing on the Gifts - Acts 19:6-7   6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all. NIV

 

3.  When all the New Testament letters had been written - there isn't much of any mention of the use of Spiritual Gifts from the apostle John's death on.  Especially from the 2nd century until the 19th century.

 

4.  Gaining the Gifts of the Spirit today - It seems to me - my opinion - that people are told to ask for the Gifts - no where found in the Bible.  And that they are to practice their Gifts - all Gifts are 100% at the beginning, not partial. 

 

5.  Speaking in tongues was speaking in a language - today people use the Spiritual Gift of Speaking in Tongues as "any sound".  I even had a lady give me a cassette tape that had "angels" singing on it ( a single sound going on through the whole tape).  

 

I want anybody that reads this to understand that this is my own opinion and understanding of that which is perfect.  I believe that all may have their own opinion of scripture that is hard to understand.

 

[Sank T Monius]

1 Corinthians 13:10
Q). When do you think the "perfect" comes?
A). I believe the "perfect " comes when Christ returns (eschatological view of cessation).
#
Q). How do you support your interpretation?
A). An eschatological view of the cessation of spiritual gifts conforms with Paul's more general statement in 1 Corinthians 1:7 "So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

[JanMary]

Good Christians sometimes disagree about this question. Remember to be loving in your answer.
Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10) When do you think the “perfect” comes? (See my “Excursus” before answering.)

 

Since the Lord alone is perfect,and sinless, and none of us will ever be until we see Him face to Face, I believe it's when we are in His Presence.

 

How do you support your interpretation?

 

The gifts while we are on earth help to fill in blanks, and the "holes" in our souls from wounding or neglect from those around us, and are encouragement from Him through someone with "skin on" while we are still "broken" and in process of complete redemption. They also demonstrate our need for one another...we're never to be "an island" unto ourselves.

 

 

With Him we will be complete and will live in perfect unity...the gifts will no longer have any use then.

 

I love Paul's explanation in v12: When the perfect comes ..."but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood by God. (amplified)  That seems clear to me that in the presence of Jesus, the All Perfect One, the gifts will be obsolete, because we will all be like Him in character since our sinful, fallen nature and flesh will have been left behind, the "veil" of incomplete understanding and knowledge will have been removed and our full maturity will have been accomplished...His finished masterpieces!

 

 

 

 

[Lion of Grace]

I have always been taught that perfect comes with the return of Christ.

 

Teleios has the meaning of a state of perfection.

Face to face meaning to be in the presence at the point of or after Christ's return.

To fully know will only be true after the Messiah comes back.

Then we will have full knowledge and understanding of all things.

 

"For now (today) we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then (in the future) we shall see face to face (in the direct presence of). Now I know in part; (not fully known now) then (in the future) I shall know fully (perfectly), even as I am fully known."

[hanks]

Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10) 

When do you think the "perfect" comes? (See my "Excursus" before answering.) 

How do you support your interpretation?

When perfection comes, the imperfect disappears (v. 10). Here the imperfect refers to the gifts of prophesy, knowledge and tongues (vs. 8-9), and Paul is saying that these gifts will cease because something perfect will replace them. To me perfection exists only in God, and I therefore support the view that the coming “perfect” is our Lord and Saviour Jesus. These gifts will no longer be needed in the new heaven and the new earth. 

 

[Delivered]

Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10) When do you think the "perfect" comes and how do you support your interpretation?

 

I believe "perfect", God’s perfect timing of "completion" will not come until our Lord comes back again as promised. 

 

“Perfect” I believe will come when we see the prophesy of Isaiah fulfilled, when we  see all nations and kingdoms that refuse to serve the “Holy One of Israel”, the One who sent his Son, will "PERISH" – 

 When all believers who mourn, love, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem, will rejoice with Her, for the LORD will extend “PEACE” to Her like a river,  and the glory of the Gentiles (Christians) will be like a flowing stream; and all they that despised thee will bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they will call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel. (Isa 66:10,12,14)

 

This has not yet been fulfilled, “completed” - instead we are seeing an increase in that of hatred for the Christian, and for the Jewish Nation; 

 

This is why I am thankful that we still have the promise of the gifts of the Spirit to help us in these dire times, while we are “WATCHING” for that day to come when - (Isa 60:18, 19, 20, 21, 22) Violence will no more be heard in your land, wasting nor destruction within your borders; but you shall call your walls Salvation, and your gates Praise. 

When the sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto you: but the LORD shall be unto you an everlasting light, and your God your glory.  Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall the moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be your everlasting light, and the days of your mourning shall be ended –  Your people also will be righteous: they will inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. 

 

A little one will become a thousand and a "small one" a "strong nation": The LORD will hasten it in his (Perfect) time = (Isa 66) who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 

 

Perfect will come when (Rev 21:1,2) we see a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea, when we will see  the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 

 

(Rev 21:22, 23, 24, 27)  There will be no temple there in: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb will be its temple. When the city will have no need of the sun, neither will it need the moon to shine: for the glory of God will lighten it, for the Lamb is the light.  

 

Perfect will come when the nations of them which are saved will walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth will bring glory and honor into it. And there will not be anything that defiles, neither they who work abomination, or those who lie: only they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. ----

 

Whether there be prophecies, they will fail, whether there be tongues, they will cease; whether there be knowledge, it will vanish away, where there is charity, “LOVE” it will never fail, instead it will be kind, it will not behave itself unseemly, work abomination, love will not rejoice in iniquity, will not defile and lie, for “LOVE” will always be, love will never fail.

 

These sayings are faithful and true; and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show the things which must be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[charisbarak]

to me, the perfect is the perfect one--Jesus!  When He returns or perhaps if we die before He comes.  It will be when we get our earthly body, I think.  Our perfection doesn't happen on this earth!!

 

No pure reference--I can't recall one......

[lighthouse2014]

Good Christians sometimes disagree about this question. Remember to be loving in your answer.

Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10) When do you think the “perfect” comes? (See my “Excursus” before answering.) How do you support your interpretation?

I believe that the words "when perfect comes" is relating to the time when Christ himself returns to the earth. I interpret this to mean that when Christ has returned to earth we will no longer need the gifts of the spirit, because He will be among us in person, known by all, no longer needing the special gifts. He will be here and establish his Kingdom, we will know Him as He knows us.  

[Old Jerry]

I think that “perfect” comes after Jesus returns. I have always thought that and didn’t know that there was other interpretations. After I listened to your “Excursus” I still have that same belief.

[haar]

Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10) When do you think the "perfect" comes? (See my "Excursus" before answering.) How do you support your interpretation?

 

I think the "perfect" comes only  when the Lord Jesus Christ comes back and we are then  transformed from mortality to immortality; from  perishable to imperishable and  from imperfection to perfection.

 

This because we cannot achieve perfection in our Adamic nature.

 

 

[Rod Beenleigh]

When do you think the "prefect" comes?

 

When Jesus Christ returns or if we precede His arrival when we are in heaven.

 

How do you support your interpretation?

 

1 Corinthians 13:12b   "then I shall know fully"

[Craig]

1 Corinthians 13:8-10:  Having described the qualities that characterize those who exercise their gift in love earlier in Chapter 13, Paul now takes up the permanence of love in verses 8-10.  He contrasts the permanence of love with the temporary character of spiritual gifts. Love never fails.  Throughout eternity, love will go on in the sense that we will still love the Lord and love one another.  These gifts on the other hand, are of temporary duration.  They were provided to believers for the earthly purpose of building up the church and presenting the gospel to the world throughout the ages. 

 

I believe that verse 8 says it all. Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages or tongues and special knowledge will become useless, but love lasts forever.  Love will never cease.  The prophecies which have existed from the time of Penecost until this present time will be ended when God's people are at home in heaven.  When Jesus Christ returns all things will be made perfect.  While there is the gift of knowledge now, this will no longer be needed when we reach the final consummation in glory.  When Paul says knowledge will vanish away, he cannot mean that there will be no knowledge in heaven.  He must be referring to the gift of knowledge whereby divine truth was supernaturally imparted.  All truth is from God and supernaturally imparted.  See John 17:17.

 

We have the completed cannon but all things are not perfect.  Only when Jesus returns at the end of this age will all things will be made perfect.  I believe that God decides how he is going to interface with humanity choosing his methods as situations warrant it.  The completed cannon is there for our daily guidance and insight into God's mind and purpose on this planet with this race of creation.  The church is full of people with a knowledge of the completed cannon but their lives are not Holy Spirit-filled.  They don't manifest the fruits of the Spirit in their lives.  Without the Holy Spirit in one's life the completed cannon just sits there. 

 

Nothing in this world is complete or perfect.

[blezed]

When do you think the “perfect” comes? (See my “Excursus” before answering.) How do you support your interpretation?

• "Perfect" comes when our life on this earth is complete and we are in the presence of God.  Spiritual gifts are given for our life on earth in order to build up, serve and strengthen fellow Christians.  We will no longer need these gifts when we get to Heaven because everything is perfect and complete.

[Irmela]

Q3. (1 Corinthians 13:10)

When do you think the "perfect" comes? 

How do you support your interpretation?

I think it is when Christ returns.

The Amplified version puts it in this way:   "But when the complete and perfect [total] comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away  -   become antiquated, void and superseded."

To me it becomes perfect when Christ is there.    No more mistakes/sins etc., it will be perfect. 

[Krissi]

I don't know when the perfect comes. This stumps me and is beyond what my mind can handle. If pressed to choose, I'd agree with the third point in Pastor Ralph's excursus, which is that the perfect comes with the coming of Jesus -- the second coming, that is.

It's logical to believe that Christ's perfection will be fully manifested when He is fully manifested. Having said this, logic isn't proof or of much importance to God: He is three-in-one, Christ was born of a virgin, Christ has a dual nature, etc. 

(This begs the question of how He could have been partially manifested when on earth during His life here. Perhaps that's the meaning of the child v adult thinking that Paul writes -- an analogy.)

The gifts have been left here for us to use until He comes back. They're a stop-gap measure to help us to the time when Christ comes again -- temporarily bestowed. We won't need them in heaven.