Q3. Drinking vs. Drunkenness

[parkerslope]

Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle?

Jesus produced good wine instead of just purifying the water.  Therefore, they feel that it is alright to drink wine and get drunk.

 

Which is wrong:  drinking wine or drunkenness?

Drunkenness!  We seem to get caught up in excesses of all kinds.  We need to be moderate in all we eat and drink, not go to drunkenness.

 

How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts?

By practicing self control in all parts of our life.

[Stanley Tavaziva]

The six stone water pots were normally used for ceremonial washing. When full, the pots would hold 20 to 30 gallons. According to the Jews’ ceremonial law, people became symbolically unclean by touching objects of everyday life. Before eating, the Jews would pour water over their hands to cleanse themselves of any bad influences associated with what they had touched.This wine was too good and was different to what thy had been drinking originally

People look everywhere but to God for excitement and meaning. For some reason, they expect God to be dull and lifeless. Just as the wine Jesus made was the best, so life in him is better than life on our own. Why wait until everything else runs out before trying God? Why save the best until last?

[linda bass]

Alcoholics are quick to point at the miracle of Jesus turning water into wine because they want to justify themselves and use it as an excuse.

It is drunkenness that is wrong. There is nothing wrong with drinking wine as long as it's done in moderation or for medicinal purposes.

We can avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts by practicing moderation in all things.

[JoanG]

Alcoholics feel that they are only enjoying the gifts of God by drinking. They do not realize that they have a problem. They ignore all the signs of trouble in their lives.

Drunkenness is the sin to having a drink. God never said to not enjoy wine, however to over do it can cause a number of sins  to be committed. So these are against God's design and reason for creating the grapes.

God meant for us to enjoy ourselves. He created a lot of things to help us to have a better life. However, when we abuse these things we are actually committing a number of sins at one time.

[John6:68-69]

They may feel that this supports that there is nothing wrong with drinking in excess.

drunkenness

minimally/what you need not just because you want it.

[Joe_Applegarth]

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts?
 

1) On the surface it would appear that since Jesus turned the water into wine that He was validating the use of hard spirits.  But there is absolutely nothing in this account, or for that matter any account in the Bible, where you could even remotely show an endorsement for the use of strong drink.  One more thing, I believe it’s important to note that this was a first century Hebrew gathering.  This particular occasion wasn’t a Christian wedding; Jesus had just begun his ministry and had not yet gone to the cross.  2) There is no evidence to support the claim that the “wine” that Jesus created was/was not an alcoholic beverage.  Taking into consideration the times and the culture of the first-century Jews, it could have been unfermented I suppose but, in reality I think it most likely would have been fermented.  The bottom line here is that a sip of wine, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, doesn’t constitute drunkenness and it’s the drunkenness, the abuse of alcohol, that’s sinful.  3) Developing sound Christian values requires mental, physical and spiritual discipline.  Mentally we always have to be aware of our surroundings and the earthly pitfalls that are always present.  But simply being aware is only half the battle, we also have to discipline ourselves to avoid those pitfalls.  Physically, we have know our limitations and do everything possible not to exceed them.  In truth, the mental and physical discipline that we require will come when we attend to the spiritual side of our nature.  Spiritually we need to allocate time to meditation on God’s Word.  We need to spend time with Him in prayer, regularly attend worship and honor and glorify Him through obedient service.  A balanced approach to disciplining our mental, physical and spiritual lives are of paramount importance to enjoying God’s bounties.

[van]

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts?

Alcoholics are quick to point this out because they can drink more and really get drunk. That is a sin. Drunkenness is a sin. And if you know you are going to have a problem with drinking don't do it!!!

[pickledilly]

Alcoholics would only be excited to point out this miracle as an attempt to validate themselves in their addiction. This miracle had nothing to do with drinking to an excess that takes over control of your mind, behavior, and life. My daddy was an alcoholic, so I know something about what that looks like.

 

The sin is that of yielding to excess. I don't drink any alcoholic beverages because of what I saw it do to my daddy and my family. No one intends to become an alcoholic, but who recognizes the line they're crossing as the addiction takes root and the person loses the self-control they were certain they could have over it. No one really knows if they will be a person who becomes entrapped in addiction, so for me, I recommend leaving it alone altogether. We aren't to put ourselves under the influence of anything that would impair of our minds, leaving us vulnerable to poor judgment and uninhibited behavior. Am I legalistic about it? No. But is our accountability to yield only to the Spirit and the possibility of damage to our testimony of the power of Christ at work within and through us worth that risk? For me, that answer is clearly no.

[Lionwolf]

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts?

People that drink to excess and alcoholics use this miracle to justify and rationalize their alcoholism. Drunkenness is wrong as is anything taken to excess. In Ecclesiastes King Solomon indulged in excesses and found the excesses to be unfulfilling. Instead of relying on fleshly comforts we should rely on God's grace. With this attitude we can enjoy God's good gifts.

[Paul Hodge]

Alcoholics may think to themselves, “If it was good enough for the Son of God to turn 80 gallons of water into wine then it is a sure sign that God is overlooking my drinking problem”.

It takes a fair amount of wine to reach the stage you can’t remain standing or walk in a straight line. Also by this time you would not be enjoying the wine as much as you did when you started. So not only are you harming yourself with possible alcohol poisoning you are also wasting good wine.

Moderate drinking as recommended by health professionals and always have a good friend to let you know when you are making a fool of yourself. Otherwise enjoy the fruit of the vine.

Footnote:

Jesus is associated with sharing wine at the last supper and asked his disciples to do the same in memory of him.

 

[Old Jerry]

The alcoholics probably point out this miracle because if Jesus would change water to wine then it must be ok to drink it. But I don’t think that alcoholics are drinking the best wine usually they are drinking the rot gut wine. Drinking wine is fine. It is the drunkenness that is not ok. If we are not alcoholics then we can relax and enjoy a glass of wine. If we ae alcoholics then we don’t get to.

[Nate Murray]

Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle?

I believe alcoholics use this verse to justify their actions and give themselves a license to drink.

Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? Drunkenness

How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts? We can make the choice to not indulge in certain gifts if we cannot handle them

[Godswriter]

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts?

Alcoholics point it out to say that they can drink to excess and say that it's not their fault that they are powerless when it comes to drinking in the first place. When they are not correct in truth. 
Drunkenness is wrong because you are not being filled with the Spirit then. Drinking itself is okay as long as you have control. By asking God for His assistance when we struggle. 

[Rosesam]

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts?

Probably because of their own weaknesses. I have heard a story of how an alcoholic was asking why such a miracle is still not repeated. Whether Jesus has stopped the work of transformation of water into wine, to which an ex alcoholic replies that He does better than that. For now He transforms wine into furniture, and essential things and a stability of income in the house and nurturing of relationships which far outweighed turning of water into wine in this person’s life.

Wine symbolizes joy and celebration. Bible does not condemn consumption of wine in celebration but does condemn drunkenness.

If we know our own limitations, we will not be drawn into temptation of those weaknesses that limit us. If someone knows they will be drawn into drunkenness they should not indulge in wine and hard liquor. Same goes for gluttony and anything we indulge in which causes us to sin. Moreover, we need His grace and power, and as we yield to Him, He will give us the strength and wisdom to live a life pleasing to Him.

[theoldveteran]

On 8/7/2014 at 1:38 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts?

(1) Alcoholics and all sinners want to justify their sin by pointing out that If Jesus did it, why shouldn't I?  They believe that by pointing the finger of accusation away from themselves, it takes the attention away from them and their sin!

(2) Drunkenness is more wrong than just drinking wine.  Drinking wine can be beneficial to the body as Paul pointed out to Timothy in (I Tim 5:23)

(3)  By remembering the scriptures that say that drunkenness is a sin, (Prov20:1; I cor5:21) and that drunkenness dissipates the mind, (Eph5:18) and that it pollutes our ministry, (Luke 21:34)

[brianthedisciple]

On 8/7/2014 at 11:38 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q3. (John 2:6-10)

Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle?

• I don't know. I've never heard anyone who was a problem drinker point out this in relationship to their using of alcohol

Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness?

• Rhetorical question

How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts?

• My wife drinks wine; I drink non-alcoholic wine. We simply enjoy what it as a gift and blessing from God

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

They and other sincere but  sincerely wrong  use this miracle to justify partying, carousing and engaging in deviant behaviour.  The book of Proverbs has admonitions about abuse of wine.   Application can be used for other mind numbing drinks as well.  Pagan religions utilize various drugs to get oracles from idols.

It's proven by science that alcoholic beverages destroy brain cells.   Yes, drunkeness is a sin; our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.   In ancient cultures, wine mixed with water was medicinal.   Regular water often was contaminated so use of wine to purify water was needed.   It isn't a good witness for a true Bible Christian to be in a sports bar..the cursing, illegal drugs and perversions in these venues are not places for a man of God.

Bible believing believers will feel out of place in venues where alcoholic beverages are served.   I cannot accept how Christain. Parents can allow their sons and daughters to attend proms and dances.   As a young man, I would not attend such gatherings.  I was busy with church and prayer meetings.

[Daniel R]

1. Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle?

It gives them an excuse for drinking more. They don't want to turn and repent from drinking/their sins, so they justify it however they can.

2. Which is wrong: drinking or drunkenness?

Drunkenness! Drinking isn't bad in itself but when you let alcohol rule and take over you, that's when it becomes an issue. Still try to stay away from drinking though.

3. How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts?

We can avoid excessed and still enjoy God's good gifts by following and letting the Holy Spirit guide us and by keeping drinking (and other things) in moderation.

[Irmela]

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle?

Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness?

How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts?

They point out this miracle to try and prove that it's ok to drink. They have an excuse for their actions. 

Drunkenness is wrong.

As is anything done in excess. Habakkuk 2:5 states "wine and wealth are treacherous...) 

We need to exercise self-control. 

[Teshome Tena]

Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts?

Eph 5
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

To my understanding Jesus does not perform this miracle  to show himself as miracle worker but the message of  the miracle is  as the Jewish tradition and low , they think that by washing their body  using water they belief that they become  free from uncleanness  but Jesus  shows  Jewish water doesn't clean , purify humanity but his word( as written in John 15: 3  Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.), by performing this miracle using six waterpots of stone used for  manner of the purifying , Jesus cancel the way of thinking  and no more use this pots and water for purification .This  is a purpose and message of a miracle changing water to Wine  but not to  give us a way to think as drinking is possible because the bible says  Prov 23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: