Pastor Ralph Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? While miracles do occur today, and often (I've experienced miraculous healing for a back injury and our son's thumb when severed in a bicycle accident and was sewn on by a hand plastic surgeon, died and was turning black and gangrenous. I asked for 2 more days to have more prayer and anointing with oil....when the surgeon unwrapped it after the additional prayer and anointing, gasped "A miracle! We don't get to see miracles!" His thumb, before had turned black and dead, was now pink and alive...a Jewish Doctor we were able to witness to, and bought him a Bible...(I'm confident he'll be in Heaven!) and many more miracles of safety, provision, etc. At those times, faith is high and nothing seems impossible.....but in the trenches, in the wilderness, in the dry times when God seems far away is when true faith carries us...it's faith in the Person of Jesus, not faith in miracles. (In the latter days, Satan will do miracles through the Anti-Christ to deceive people....the temple wizards duplicated some of Moses' miracles in Egypt...kind of stupid though, as they added to the misery of their own people!) Family members in a large, well known cult, have faith in their church, (they recite that it's the true church and all others are not valid), and they have faith in their "seer and prophet" who leads the church, as always speaking truth..(though the early "prophet" who founded the church taught that there was "a man on the moon who wears a top hat" and other nonsense which they must explain away)...their faith is not saving faith in the Person of Jesus Christ, which is the ONLY faith which carries us into eternity in His arms. Is it true faith? I would say it's definitely faith, but not saving and sustaining faith. (we have faith when we sit in a chair that it's going to hold our body weight.....so we can have faith in just about anything.) What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Having a personal, saving faith in Jesus Christ and with the indwelling Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth, and Who confirms with our spirit that we are "a child" of the living God. Faith "comes by hearing", so worship and teaching are also important, as is fellowship and encouragement with and from other believers... At salvation we're all given the gift of faith, which is not stagnant...it keeps on growing like a muscle if exercised. Did Jesus see these problems a a reason not to perform miracles? No, or He probably wouldn't have performed any miracles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? It is not and cannot be sustaining faith as there will not always be miracles but rather it is belief only in what can be seen. Is it true faith? I don't believe so. However there is nothing wrong with looking back and remembering what God did for you at an earlier time to help and sustain along the journey. What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? I have a quote by someone and I don't know who it is that says "Preach faith until you have faith". We need to keep reading the Word, communing with God, praising Him and asking for the Holy Spirit to deepen our faith and then expect things to get more difficult. In my experience they will and it sometimes gives me chills. Did Jesus see these as a reason not to perform miracles? I believe there were some places where it was difficult because they would not believe however He did enough miracles so that we have no excuse not to believe. God Bless Jen Numbers 6:24-26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaMallinson Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 The problem with faith that rests on miracles is that the miracles are seen as a type of magic and can distract from the true message of Christ. On a different occasion when Jesus was asked to perform a sign as though he were a performing conjurer, he accused the people of being hypocrites. There is no religious message in a miracle and Jesus’s mission was a living message, to turn us from sin and towards salvation. Miracles will not improve our moral character, but faith in Christ and attempting to follow his instructions will. Church history tells us that miracles can guide people towards faith. However, they should not be stand-alone. They should not be a stunt. Here in South Sudan, there are pastors who perform healings every Sunday to order and hold crusades where miracles are guaranteed. I have yet to hear one of them say ‘Your faith has saved you’, as Jesus did. Jesus seems to have faced these problems on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes he agreed, sometimes he refused, at other times there were spontaneous miracles. Sometimes he asked people to keep silent about the miracle, which I think was partially to stop himself being followed purely as a miracle-worker (although also to allow him to prolong his ministry). What we need always to bear in mind is his frequent caveat, ‘Your faith has saved you. Go and sin no more.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Such faith can easily fail and withdraw That kind of faith is not solid rock stable faith and therefore is not genuine. To develop our faith we need to trust absolutely with our without miracles manifestation and then accept or embrace the Lord Jesus Christ as the Christ and Saviour. Yes he saw that the Jews/ Pharisees were just looking for miracles but were not interested in his person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty10 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Faith that solely rest in miracles seems a little weaker that faith that rests in the word. True miracles from God are very powerful events and can bring a non believer to believe in the word but then deeper faith comes from a developing personal relationship that grows your true faith into much more. Jesus did not want to show miracles at inappropriate moments because from the accounts in scripture, the people that were present may have had motives that were not right for the miracle that was being asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Faith that rests solely on miracles and signs has no substance to it. Many may believe in His name and outwardly show that they follow Jesus, but this does not necessarily mean that they have actually committed their lives to Him in simple trust. No, it is not true faith, but merely an outward display of following Jesus. To develop true faith there has to be complete trust and obedience to His Word. There has to be self-denial and over all surrender to Him. In other words there has to be regeneration as we read in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” Yes, Jesus realized that many were coming to Him merely out of curiosity and only looking for the sensational and spectacular; and saw this as a reason not to perform miracles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blezed Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? 1. Faith that rests on miracles alone, and doesn't mature to embrace Jesus and follow him, is shallow and fickle. What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? 2. For faith to develop into true faith is when there are no miracles to substantiate but one put complete confidence in Jesus. Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? 3. Yes, He did not want them to make him into a king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vl1157 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 To believe in Him as He does miracles is good...sometimes He draws us in that way so we know He is real. But then we can get trapped in the John 6 mentality of many of His followers, many of whom left after He said some shocking things (the equivalent of, "Eat Me!"). The only ones who stayed said, "Where else can we go?", for even they did not understand Him at the time. A faith in Him that is only there when He is 1. doing a miracle in our life, 2. giving us free bread (or some other thing that we really like getting), 3. healing us/giving us good health, 4. giving us very direct and obvious feelings of His presence, is Fair-weather thinking toward Him, not exactly faith yet. These things help us know He is Real and reliable, they do nothing for our character and sanctification. He has to test us and forge our character in Him, and so somehow we must learn to love Him for who He is, not for what He does for us ("His benefits"). Faith seems to be following Him whether blind to Him or not. (Isaiah 50: 10: "Who among you fears the Lord and obeys the Voice of His Servant? Even though he walks in the darkness without a ray of light, let him trust in the Name of the Lord and depend on his God.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? In John 5:46 and 47 Jesus said (partly my paraphrase), if you believed Moses you would believe me, but if you do not believe his writings how will you believe my words? Jesus was not a showman he only performed miracles out of need and to glorify his father (John 11:41), never when people asked him to perform a miracle, just to prove himself to them. Yes I think that a faith that relies on miracles alone is a shallow faith. I think also that the word miracle is an overused word in Christian circles, just as the word 'worship' is. Anyway, what is a miracle? I think that a miracle is a bird flying through the air. What about snow on a mountain peek, or a fungus growing a rotten tree stump. From the macro to the micro is a miracle! God made them afterall. Life is a miracle. A miracle is a changed life through knowing Jesus the light of the world (John 1:4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD GARY Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Miracles and Faith is such a common thought and a real stumbling block for many. To believe without seeing Christ risen from the grave is truly a step of Faith. If we could see the miracles and have been in the upper room then we could easily believe but I believe it is a stronger Faith to believe without seeing. The Bible tells us what happened and how things transpired but it is still the written and inspired word versus Jesus standing by us in person and letting us act as a doubting Thomas. We know that our Faith sees us through difficult times and lets us believe God is by our side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Faith that rests solely on miracles and signs has no substance to it. Many may believe in His name and outwardly show that they follow Jesus, but this does not necessarily mean that they have actually committed their lives to Him in simple trust. No, it is not true faith, but merely an outward display of following Jesus. To develop true faith there has to be complete trust and obedience to His Word. There has to be self-denial and over all surrender to Him. In other words there has to be regeneration as we read in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” Yes, Jesus realised that many were coming to Him merely out of curiosity and only looking for the sensational and spectacular; and saw this as a reason not to perform miracles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delivered Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? Many believed Jesus was the Messiah when they saw the many miracles he did, many “believed in his name” but true “FAITH” calls one not to place their faith in the miracles, but to place their faith “IN HIM”, trusting faith that calls the heart to commitment. Q. What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Seek God and you will find him is the hope for those whose calling is true, it is sad to read that the many who witnessed the excitement of the many miracles Jesus did, were not ready for commitment, they were not ready to acknowledge their sin and to repent - A step of “true faith”. Q. Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Jesus did not commit himself to those who said they believed, for he saw through their misplaced faith, however, I am thankful that he continued to show forth his miracles, for there are those who are seeking after the truth, as that of Nicodemus, the Jewish rabbi and member of the Sanhedrin was, Nicodemus saw the miracles, the signs Jesus did and he believed in Him, therefore, he sought out Jesus, seeking for more, another step for faith to growth in, and in his seeking, Nicodemus found more than the Messiah, he found the Savior, Nicodemus was “born again” from “above” and he came to put his trust in Jesus, Yeshua. (19:39) I am thankful that the Messiah did not stop performing miracles, for he has done many miracles in my life, the biggest one being, he changed me - a new creation in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2014 Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? To have faith that rest solely on miracles will not produce a faith that would cause one to follow Christ, it would cause faith in that happened but not enough faith to devote one's life to Christ. Therefore to witness a miracle will not develop into true faith, as Jesus stated "no sign will be given to this wicked and perverse generation". If he had come down from the cross, they would believe the miracle, but they still would want their place of supremacy over the people. They wanted the glory from the people, they were the creme of the crop, well educated in the law and on their way to heaven. Having true faith is the hope and trust in someone they have not seen, but only heard of. God gives us his faith in that we are strengthened in our faith. Jesus saw all kinds of problems and if he had performed miracles for the scribes and pharisee's they would only use it as evidence to kill him. The miracles only excited the common people and caused the elder's to be even more jealous of Jesus, he was taking away their glory and that they hated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiKosum Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Faith based on miracles is treating God like an ATM machine. Faith based on miracles is based on the physical. Faith like this is not sustainable and cannot last. Jesus says in John 20:29 "... Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." From this we know that we can always rely on miracles to build up our faith or indeed to have faith. To develop true faith, we must accept Jesus as He is - our Lord and Saviour. Our faith in Jesus cannot be based on the miracles that He performs but rather on His love for us and His teachings. Nonetheless, Jesus does not see this as a problem as He still does perform miracles. In Romans 12:3, Paul wrote that God has given to each one of us a measure of faith. So, if Jesus thinks that our faith can only be built up by seeing miracles, He will do it. Indeed, Jesus has performed many miracles when He was on earth and continues to perform miracles. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Faith that rests solely on miracles is not fully trusting in God to do what he want to do when He want it done. It is faith that shallow and not grounded in confidence in God. That is not true faith; in order for it to develop into true faith is one who gives total confidence in God's ability to manifest a miracle according to His will. Jesus continue to perform miracles and taught His disciples so that they would have faith that is true and grounded in trusting God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHKriska Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Faith based on miracles would require a steady stream of miracles in our life to keep our faith alive. Is it true faith? No, it supports our faith but should not be the sole reason for our faith. What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? A heart melted and constantly seeking that which is of God, in our actions, our words, our thoughts, and our prayers. A heart filled with agape love, God's love for the world and its people. Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? No, He performed miracles for the benefit of His disciples so that they would be prepared to do the same upon His departure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilter Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Faith to me is believing in Jesus Christ. When we pray I have faith that God will answer that prayer. Now faith is the substance of things hope for,the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 If we have to see miracles to believe or have faith then maybe our faith is superficial. My faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is that if I pray I know He will come through because of my faith in Jesus our Lord. It is true faith if we don't have to see miracles every time we pray. I have enough faith that I know my Jesus is there for me. Prayer life is necessary for us to develop true faith reading his word hearing his word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing is the word of God Jesus did see it was a problem because He knew the faith of some of the followers was not true followers. Some of the same people went on and cried out crucify him. We need to keep our faith strong even when it is not popular to believe. Thank You Jesus for giving me strong faith in you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think that faith that rests solely on miracles is a faith that only believes in what they see and not in what they hope. The true faith must develop in the truth and hope that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ. But Jesus didn’t see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles because He performed many miracles while He was here on earth. The miracles might have brought many to the true faith that we have in the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grace2free Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? It's like to see is to believed. But faith that rests on miracles alone, and doesn't mature to embrace Jesus and follow him, is shallow and fickle. Is it true faith? No it's not, it is a fickle and shallow faith. What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? it must be a complete and whole hearted trust to Jesus Christ and growing trust everyday. Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Yes, Jesus knows every man's heart. He knows they will only believe if he show a sign or miracles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royk Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Do we really take for granted most of the miracles which God provides before our eyes every day? Is not the symmetry and order of the universe He created a daily, moment by moment set of miracles which are literally countless. Is not the temple He gave each of us, our body our mind our soul, is it not a miracle how it works, with the literally billions of moving parts? They function naturally, in balance with each person's natural harmony, unless disturbed by things we can group together in saying, examples of my and your daily lack of deep faith. Jesus sees the same problem with us today, people of the USA, baby boomer generation of mine, having built a material worshiping world, leaving God altogether too much. Still God loves us and provides for us, miraculous things every day and moment. Oh that I cry out for you oh Lord to hear our prayer, come, return to your ultimate victory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royk Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Q3. (John 2:23-25) What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? Is it true faith? What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Deeper faith comes slowly, because God works slowly. We can see it in nature in trees and plants that grow over the years; it takes time for their roots to become established. This is accomplished by studying God's word and becoming familiar with His promises and His commandments. Even in the strongest christian families a child matures from life experiences and can grow to trust God by feeling the Spirit and becoming ready for baptism. That which is not grown on patience and regular "watering" has a better foundation and better chance to develop real faith in life experiences. Jesus understood this and expected and knew how His disciples were, even as they scattered when He went to the cross. But since He came to save and not judge, He was ready to heal all, and show God's unconditional love to them as God does to and for us today and tomorrow. For this there is hope despite our sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkerslope Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 What is the problem with faith that rests solely on miracles? The impact of miracles does not last long. Faith must be based on something solid and firm, like an eye witness. Miracles are good to increase our faith, but not to be the foundation of our faith. Is it true faith? No, I do not believe so. What is necessary for it to develop into true faith? A miracle is performed by someone to make a statement, Faith must be put in the person behind the miracle, not the person doing the miracle. Miracles become shrines to be worship instead of God. Did Jesus see these problems as a reason not to perform miracles? Jesus knew the hearts of all people, So He show miracles only when it meant that the ones who had the miracle performed on them or for them, would not enshrine it as a point of worship. Also Jesus did miracles and signs and wonders, so that only those seeking the truth would understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickledilly Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Faith in miracles is not the same thing as faith in the miracle-worker. Even today, people often believe in miraculous events but entirely miss the source when something happens that is contrary to the expected logical outcome. But this kind of “faith” is mental, unstable and insecure, it depends on what is happening and what others think. This is not the true faith that pleases God and leads to salvation. Mark 9:24, I believe; help my unbelief! True faith is not just intellectual, but moves deep into the heart. I think the main way this happens is through the process of rejoicing in the miracle but looking beyond it to see the One who accomplished it. True faith then can develop into a trust from the core of your being that becomes the primary foundation and influence for everything that you believe, the way you think, the words you speak, and the actions you take. The truest faith is placing complete trust in Christ as God the Son who has atoned your sin and redeemed you to God. Jesus knew the people were never going to be convinced and brought to faith solely by the miracles He performed, no matter how numerous. So there were times when He held back or entirely left the area. They were looking for the miracle of a king who would deliver them, and were not seeing beyond the miracles to truly believe the Miracle-Worker for who He is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoanG Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 When people have faith based on what they can see, they do not have true faith. They rely on their senses to show them what i sgoing on. They do not feel these things in their hearts and souls. They are surface people. True faith is believing without having the proof. It is knowing in your heart and soul that these things are real. It is believing without the proof that makes true faith. It is hearing the words and knowing in your heart that the truth was spoken. Jesus did not want people to just believe in the things that they can see. He wanted them to see what is really in their hearts and souls. He knew that once they forgot about the miracles that were seen, they would soon forget them. They would not keep it within them. He did not want the New covenant with God to be just lip service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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