Q2. Possessiveness

[Pastor Ralph]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?

[JanMary]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church?

 

No, but I think I know what this feels like due to another circumstance 20 years ago...a teachable moment in this regard. We were in a small church,...loving the intimacy of being there and knowing everyone. One Sunday a woman who had slandered me, falsely accused me, and tried to turn my friends against me, showed up at church. (I had opposed her on something immoral and unethical she tried to impose on the group we were in, and failing in her mission to isolate me, she left the group and I hadn't seen her for several years). When I saw her, I thought "Oh no! She's not going to come here and wreak havoc on this precious group of people!" ...then the Holy Spirit gently convicted me...."This is My church....you're a part of it and anyone is welcome"...then I thought, "You're right Lord! She is welcome here. Please give me grace to do whatever you ask me to do regarding her. If this is where you want to deliver her from her wicked ways and to grow,  that's your place to decide, not mine." (I had forgiven her, but felt very threatened by her after hearing her boast about what she had done to others in her past...she was like a tornado coming in and swirling people into her "vortex", then leaving debris and chaos in her wake after leaving.)

 

The next Sunday I expected her to come back and was prepared to be amiable. She never did. But I learned a lesson I'll never forget. It's not my business who goes to what church...it's the Lord's place to lead each of His sheep to the place where He wants to feed them.

 

What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness?

 

It's just that...possessiveness, and jealousy. For some reason, and we found this out when we left a church years ago, those who remain seem to view your leaving, as "leaving or abandoning them", rather than you're following the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Their feelings are hurt. It's a clannishness or dysfunction of wanting everyone to want or agree with what we want or think.

 

 

Is it self-pity or something else?

 

I think it's pride and insecurity: If pride: We're here so this must be the "right" place to be.  if Insecurity: "If others are leaving, maybe we're not in the "right" place."
 

[Clarence]

Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?

 

It is interesting to observe that people flock to some preachers and not to others. Its the same with some churches, some churches are more popular than others. In our town there are churches that have a lot of old people and not many younger. It seems to be a problem for some churches to stay relevant to the community in which they are placed.

Recently, there was a couple who left our church and are going to another one now. I suppose I feel a bit cross about that because it's our loss. I wonder if we could have done something different in the way that we run our Sunday services, so that this couple might have stayed. (I am aware of why they left). There seems to be a tendancy to become comfortable with what we know and if someone dears to suggest we do something differently, we resent that.

So, do I feel resentful that this couple left our church? Yes. Perhaps a better way of looking at it is that the church that they have gone to will be blessed by them. Its not right to be possessive of people because they can go where they want, and do what they want. Its really between them and God and none of my business.

I can't help but think of the passage in the gospel of John, where Peter and Jesus were talking. Peter said ..."Lord what about him?" (refering to the disciple whom Jesus loved) Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." (John 21:21,22).

[Jen]

Have you ever resented larger churches that attracted people from your church?  What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness?  Is it self pity or something else.

 

No!  

I don't own them.  Christ does if they are His.  And all we have and are, is because He gave it to us. I owe everything to Him.  He is my true love, my first love.

Maybe self pity, insecurity, sense of loss, sense of betrayal.

 

God Bless!

Jen

Numbers 6:24-26

[blezed]

Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?          

• Actually, I have not.  This kind of possessiveness is not Christ like.  Like John said,God directs our lives, not ambition.  I do not think that it would be self-pity but jealousy.

[hanks]

Q2. (John 3:26) 

Have you ever resented "larger churches" that attracted people from "your" church? 

What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? 

Is it self-pity or something else?

No, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Rather my biggest concern is whether they are being fed the true Word or is it all just plain entertainment. One has to look at each church and measure its success by how many people have they brought to our Saviour, and not by how many people attend the church. To be successful the church has got to be Christ-centred. It is all about Jesus and not about any charismatic minister/pastor/leader. I feel for all those souls who are not receiving solid doctrine and receive only a superficial religion, and that they may be under the misconception that they have been saved. Perhaps they do not truly know Jesus. I think of what Paul wrote in Philippians 3:8, “What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ.”

 

[Delivered]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented "larger churches" that attracted people from "your" church?

Absolutely “not”

 

Q. What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness?

Possessiveness is not a fruit of the Spirit, however, to question and to test the spirits and to seek for that of truth is a good thing, as we read in (v25) there arose a “question” between the disciples of John and other Jews about purifying, we too are called to question and to test the spirits.

 

Q. Is it self-pity or something else?

The gospel of the Messiah is power of God that brings man to salvation, to the Jew first, and to the Gentiles, it discloses how God makes people righteous in his sight, from the beginning to the end it is “TRUST” for Romans 1:18 tells us the wrath of God is revealed against all “ungodliness and “unrighteousness” of men - it is not popular these days to point out that God is a God of wrath.

 

People would rather quote (God is love) and look no further. But it is in the context of God’s holiness, his hatred for sin, and his justice, meaning his dispensing the punishment that sin brings on itself, that we come to see how precious his love, mercy and grace are – God’s wrath is continuously being revealed, because people keep on sinning, this is why God’s delight is in mercy, not wanting to “have to” judge those who do evil, therefore, it is important we put aside “SELF-PITY” the working of the “FLESH”, for there is glory, honor, and peace, to those whose “WORKS” are “GOOD” to the Jew first and also to the Gentile, for with God there is no respecter of person, for God so loved the World.

[lighthouse2014]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?

We have no large churches in our area that would attract people from our congregation. But, I do know of huge congregations in other large cities that are 30-40 thousand people strong. Most of the huge churches teach more on prosperity and no trails to suffer because they say God wants everyone happy. Nowhere have I read in scripture that this type of belief is supported by Christ. He taught that we would have more trails and tribulations in the world because it hated Him first. It is our faith and belief in Christ that we depend on to get through these troubled times. Most of these churches do not preach about sin or it's influence in our lives. Sin separates us from God and His promises. I believe these mega churches teach what the congregation wants to hear, thus if they taught about the things in our lives that are sinful their congregation would surely dwindle. It is the churches responsibility to teach obedience to God and his commands and to live a life worthy of bringing praise to His name.    

[RebeccaMallinson]

I am not a pastor or priest so I am not in this position.  I am an ordinary member of the Catholic laity.  As a Catholic I am expected to attend my local Catholic Church if there is one.  If that is not possible I am expected to attend the nearest equivalent, for example, a church rather than a synagogue or mosque.  There is no question of being ‘attracted’ elsewhere.

 

It is wrong to feel this type of possessiveness for more than one reason.  Christ called for Christian unity (John 17) and also condemned false shepherds who scattered the sheep.  Equally, he was very specific that his disciples should not jockey for position and said that they should be as small children.  I don’t think it is self-pity, I think it is a lack of humility.

[SoiKosum]

(John 3:26) Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?

 

Personally, I take issue with larger churches when the purpose that people attend the church is based on itching ears. For example, prosperity preachers usually attract large congregations. Similarly, preachers of cheap grace, where all sin is forgiven, notwithstanding that you commit the sin over and over again, also attract large congregations. People do not go to such churches because of the message of Christ our Lord and Saviour but because they need to feel righteous while living the live they choose, which may not necessarily be according to God's standards.

 

I also take issue with pastors who focus on the numbers in their congregation and see that as a sign that they are not "worthy" because they have not attained a certain size. This is a dangerous position for pastors, as it will cause them to deviate from the message that God gives them and instead preach a gospel to attract a larger congregation.

 

I need to qualify myself in that I am quoting in Singapore's context which may be quite different from other countries.

 

To many pastors, it is a numbers game, as the larger the congregation, the more love offering they collect every week. Hence in Singapore, the larger churches are able to construct multi-million dollar churches with state of the art audio-visual equipment and tout themselves as being a "successful" church.

 

To me church success is not about the size of the congregation or the amount of money they collect. Rather, it should be based on spreading the word of God, bringing the Gospel message to the ends of world and the number of salvations made.

 

 

[PeteD]

In the past, when people left our church for another, my first reaction was sadness or disappointment that we weren't able to provide what they felt they needed. I admit since I was one of the leaders it was easy to feel resentful and defensive, and yes even possessive. With conversation, prayer and soul searching I was able to move on from this funky mood and see it as ultimately good for God's kingdom although it was and remains something I don't fully understand. John the B's attitude and teaching that he is a servant to the King certainly teaches us how we are to respond.

 

Possessiveness can be a good thing if it has to with one's loving concern for the well being of a fellow Christian in the sense that we all belong to the body of Christ and we are to look out for each other. But one has to very careful that it's not a selfish possessiveness. 

[royk]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented "larger churches" that attracted people from "your" church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?

 

This is not my experience. it is a night quiet moment where I an only think of my large english speaking praising church which is growing. My wife's small hispanic church is prayerful and not organized to campaign to bring in people. 

 

It is normal that people move from churches because of either being called by God or because of their flaws, and listening to the devil. In any case God is in control. The thought of self pity seems disconnected to the subject. God is in control, we need to accept that people change churches. 
 

[Commissioned]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?

No, there has never been a thought of resentment of “larger churches” that attracted people from “our” church.  There is only "the Church of Jesus Christ."  It is wrong to have any ind of resentment when people chose to worship in a congregation other than yours because the truth is that ws are all His.  When we harbor resentment, it is not self-pity but rather seeking to "control" others, robbing them of their freedom to worship where they want.

[quilter]

I may have until I realize that it is not our church. If it be large or small God leads  you where you need to be or where He wants you to be and I realize that now.

 

If you resented someone leaving your church we didn't pray about and didn't think about God calling them some where else and their could be jealousy involved.If this is the case we need to have a talk with Jesus to help us get jealousy out of heart.

 

I dont think it is self-pity it could be a good friend that we miss .

[Phoenix725]

I'm having a lot of trouble finding a local church that really reads and addresses scriptures. I think possessiveness of a church, as in an individual, is based on the self-centered concept of human effort. And this comes from a lack of belief in Christ.

There is more than enough grace and support for every person and every church that believes and receives from God.

[haar]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented "larger churches" that attracted people from "your" church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else?
 

 

I have not really bothered.

 

Jealousy and possessiveness is a common human behaviour. This tendency ignores the fact it is God who gives whatever he choses to give whoever he wants to.

[Old Jerry]

I don’t think that I resent them I just wish that they would go out and attract people that aren’t going to church. But I know that the church that I go to doesn’t fit everybody so they must find a church that is best for them so that they can truly worship the Lord.

[grace2free]

Q2. (John 3:26)

Have you ever resented “larger churches” that attracted people from “your” church?

I have never resented any larger churches that attrarted people from my church. I believed God is directing people according to his will and purpose. So wherever church you belong right now, only God knows why and it doesn't matter if it is big or small congregation church.

 

What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness?

Its wrong because what you want what others have and that is jealousy, its a sin.

 

Is it self-pity or something else?

Mostly it is self-pity. They felt they are failure when they can't have what others has.

[linda bass]

I don't resent it when people from my church leave for another church. I figure the left because the Lord was leading them to the other church. Or else they had their own reason for changing churches. Maybe they needed something my church didn't have or couldn't provide. Maybe there was a church doctrine the didn't agree with or a ministry they disapproved of. Whatever, it is the Lord's concern when people leave the church not mine.

What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness is that the people that leave have freewill to attend any church they want to. They belong to Christ, not the local church.

I think is mostly jealously when people in a church resents some of the members going to a bigger church.

[JoanG]

I have never had to deal with this. I am the one that has had to move on from certain churches because of their views, their priorities and their lack of Christian faith. I feel that churches that lose people lack what those individuals need at that point in their lives.

 

Those churches, that blame other churches for stealing their people, are very closed minded. They refuse to take a look at themselves. They refuse to see what is causeing the people to go church-shopping and moving on.

[John6:68-69]

No.

Churches that preach and follow God's word, are God's church. 

[Joe_Applegarth]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented "larger churches" that attracted people from "your" church?  What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness?  Is it self-pity or something else?
 

1) No; I personally prefer smaller churches but I’ve never felt any resentment toward larger churches as long as their doctrine is sound.  2) That kind of ‘possessive’ behavior smacks of the sin of selfishness and antipathy which more often than not generates yet another sin, i.e. hostility toward other people because of some perceived rebuff.  3) There certainly could be some self-pity but in most cases I believe jealousy would be a more apt description.  Instead of focusing on our own personal feelings, of jealousy and/or envy, we should instead focus on glorifying God and being thankful for everything that he’s doing in our local churches.  I recently read something that may be pertinent to this discussion; “May God help us to be big without pride, or small without shame.” – Dr. Chad Van Dixhoorn

[van]

no I have care for it don't they focus on money to much. It's like they are trying to build their own kingdom

[van]

Q2. (John 3:26) Have you ever resented "larger churches" that attracted people from "your" church? What is wrong with this kind of possessiveness? Is it self-pity or something else? No I haven't so I guess it would depend on the knowledge be taught?

[pickledilly]

THE Church does not belong to any pastor or congregation. We all belong to Christ. While it's tempting to be jealous or resentful of large churches that appear to be so dynamic and abundant in resources, we ourselves become divisive and weakened when we indulge that. We each have a role in God's Kingdom that is by His design and empowerment. And no two people, or congregations, have the identical character and manner of service. We have no right to be possessive or jealous in presuming on what belongs only to Christ. The root of that kind of attitude is pride and spiritual immaturity. I've been a long-time member in a smaller church and a current member of a large church, and I can tell you that either way God has designed purpose and blessing. And either way, there is no utopia or perfect maturity in the Body on earth.

 

I have felt the resentment, as over a decade ago the Lord called my family out of the smaller church where I had grown up and served my whole life. There were many people who shunned us, even turning to go down another aisle if they saw me coming their way at the grocery store. It was very hurtful that people who'd known me since my childhood took it personally rather than try to understand and accept that it was God's leading for us to make that difficult decision.

 

Comment on SoiKosum's post:  Your context of experience with the "cheap grace" and "numbers games" of congregations and pastors in Singapore is quite familiar in America as well.  I guess it's just the human condition apart from full submission to Christ.