June Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 You have to have Faith, then believe in faith that it is done. It is by the Grace of God that we are forgiven.God's Grace is our gift to salvation. To walk in continued grace we must be born again through the Spirit. Resist sin and serve God and one another in love. Believing by faith and being loyal to God's Word can keep our relationship alive in Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Why do forgiveness and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? I don't know why they come together but for me they just seem to. Or at least the desire to. I think of Pauls words in Romans "For that which I would do I don't and that which I wouldn't do I do". I don't always do what I desire but the desire is there. I read once you obey the one you love. It's automatic. If true faith requires obedience, how can we say we are saved by grace than works? I have written here obedience is the result of faith. For some this seems so simple but for me the concept is hard to comprehend. Or at least to put into words. I know some people who profess Christ but are not obeying (right now). Are they truly saved? Maybe the desire is there but the ability to perform is not because of stifling the Spirit, lack of prayer, lack of Bible reading whatever. Ignorance of the law is no excuse but I have many questions about this area. I just know for me the desire to obey is there. Its automatic but not always automatically done. Maybe fear or taking something lightly and think it doesn't matter. If God says IT MATTERS. The only way we are saved is by GRACE. We cannot earn salvation. Throughout the old testament it was always the shedding of blood but only temporary and had to be repeated until God's Son came to be the perfect sacrifice. Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus. So I think true faith does require obedience but the ability to perform is different in different people. What the other person said" those who are forgiven much love much" and they probably obey much also. I have learned when we don't obey we loose blessings and that hurts. That's one way I know the desire is there by the hurt I feel when I don't obey. God Bless Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Beth Whittam Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 The extra credit: We are saved by grace, that is God's gift to us. We obey God because we want to please Him. Our work are the action of our obedience and faith in Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 The sprinkling of the Blood provides the opportunity for us to enter into the great love relationship with Jesus, Father and Holy Spirit. Relationship is a two-way thing built of mutual love. Scripture says that if we love Him we will obey Him (with delight for all the benefits this brings us!). Without this we have no relationship and have failed to grasp the opportunity! Any deepening relationship involves both parties agreeing, co-operating, working together. A major part of this relationship development is that we, who have been forgiven, extend that forgiveness to any person who offends us. We are to see the offender as Jesus sees us, and practice the spiritual law that states that "love overcomes a multitude of sins". For these reasons it is evident that you cannot have one without the other. Obedient faith is a product of our love for Jesus. But we love Him because He first loved us - and showed us the meaning of the word! So it all comes from Him. That is GRACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim E. Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Forgiveness takes away all that guilt for past sins, which we do not deserve and instills in us a thankfulness so great that if we truly have faith we will go and sin no more. I'm so thankful for forgiveness, I need it everyday. But forgiveness is only the beginning. Jesus had a profound ministry and message for us all. It will lead you to obedience. It will also set you free. With such a wonderful gift available to us, how can we not be thankful and obedient. Some people live dangerously thinking they can expect forgiveness but not obey or not forgive others also. True faith in Christ will bear the fruit of love and forgiveness and obedience to Gods' Word. If you are forgiven and obedient you will want to be a servant. That is what Jesus was. To be the greatest you must put yourself last. That means serving others. I thank God every day for His Son and for forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolores hicks Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 part 1, It is thru obedience that God knows how serious we are about wanting forgiveness. patr 2, The less you obey the further you get from thinking you need forgiveness. part 3, Salvation is a gift from God and thru faith, shown by our obedience, our willingness to want to serve Him would show this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoli Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Obedience is the evidence of forgiveness. My desire to be obedient comes from his great love for me to forgive me of all my sins past, present and future. When one thinks that way, you have not truly accepted his grace. Forgiveness and obedience go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other. We are saved by grace and our works is the product of our faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus4al Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I have received forgiveness by God for my sin, not because of any goodness on my part, but because of Our Savior Jesus Christs goodness: HE died on the cross and shed HIS blood for the remission of my sins. Now my part is that I must BELIEVE. Believe what? Believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God. And I must confess, as I'm doing now, to this fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cct1106 Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Forgiveness and obedience come hand in hand because God the Father demans this of all his children. Also, brings grace to us all and peace will be multiplied. Because by grace we have been saved through faith and not of ourselves. This is the gift of God. If by works we would boast about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Ross Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 By being obedient to to the father, we show ourselves as his loving children. Forgiveness for our transgressions is granted us because He knows our spirits to be willing. To think that we can sin, get forgiveness, then sin again ad infinitum is very flawed thinking. We must show Him that our heart , by continued effort, is as pure as we can make it. Our faith and our works show our intent to be Gods children. How we conduct ourselves, and the things we do to give glory to his name are the things that help us to be given the gift of His saving grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatetrek Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Why is forgiveness & obedience a package? It is like when I was a in the boys scouts you just didn't put on the uniform to be a member you had to learn the laws and follow the handbook. Being a boy scout had to become part of your everyday life. This is the same with being a Christian you just cannot put on the uniform of forgiveness and not follow Jesus example of obeying his Father so we must have forgiveness & obedince to be like Christ. This is the only way we be saved is by God's grace and his forgiveness not by anything that we do such as trying to earn our way into heaven. Our works are worthless except when they are the fruit of our faith in Christ and we are following God's will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunilbernard Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) Forgiveness is experienced by accepting it. It is not a promisory note that one can redeem at any time. Jesus promised in 1 John 1:9 that if we confess and accept Him, He is faithful to do His part. It is dual transaction that cannot be done without the other. Those two attributes do not exist without the other. That's why they come as a package. If we think that we can get away with the forgiveness of our sins and then go gallavanting our own ways, Jesus will say, nothing doing. Grace is unmerited favor as we all know. When Jesus shows His grace upon us and bestows God's gift upon us, it shows that we need not do anything but just accept it by faith and in obedience, accept it. Accepting the forgivess of our sins is not done by any manual labour from our part. So there are no works of ours involved in it. May we be true to the calling with which He has called us and prove to be His faithful servants. Sunil Bernard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 As a mom I can relate to this on a certain level. If my child choses to have a behaviour I do not think is good or healthy or safe for him I tell him why he can no longer do this .. and I explain why. He learnes and stops the behaviour that is destructive. I forgive him and we move on in our love and life. or he can rebel and continue to do an activity I know will hurt him . Now we may have to have some consequences . If my child wants to play on the highway and I do not want him to be smashed by a truck I will remove him from the highway because He chose to not obey my wisdom and I do not want him killed or hurt. How many christainas continue to play on the highway and then blame God when the truck runs them over? I think we have an enemy on this earth and he is involved in a war with the Lord to have Gods children killed stolen or destroyed in any way he can make possible. Without my Heavely Father who knows all things I have zero hope of not being hurt in some way because I am ignorant of Satans devices but God is not . As adult we have been given free will to choice to make Jesus Lord of our life , Jesus conquered death and knows how to keep us safe . I need to obey to live. I am forgiven , but if I chose to play in the highway and the Lord clearly says it is a danger for me , He can not force me to do His will . It is my choice to listen to my Father or not ... Also I believe the more times goes by as a christian the more responsible I am as His child and the Life I get to live for him and do for Him. I can not tell my three year old to drive the car to the store for me today but when he is mature enough and has listen to my instructions and obeyed I can trust him with more responsibiliies and freedoms in life.. I have learned I grow as a christian every single day and I will never "arrive" till the return and this takes obedience and a ton of forgivness it is a relationship . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Rivington Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 So many scriptures tell us that if we don't forgive others we will not be forgiven ourselves (Mt 6:14-15; Mk 11:25; Lu 6:37; 11:4; 2Cor 2:10; Col 3:13) This is cause and effect. If I forgive others (oedience) I will be forgiven (sprinkling). I can't have one without the other - or at least to the amount I forgive - I will be forgiven. I want to forgive all - so I will be all forgiven. Obedience is not a work. It is what I do to please God and to say thank you for what Jesus did for me on the cross. Grace is free but it certainly was not cheap. It cost Jesus everything. Selwyn Hughes says when people say to him "My problem is that I can't forgive," he usually responds, "No, that is not your problem. Your problem is you don't know how much you have been forgiven." I forgive because I have been forgiven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Sherry Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 This question really made me examine the aspect of sprinkling and its connection to us, with the sacrifice of Christ we were restored to God and saved with a certain hope of salvation, forgiven. But just as Christ was obedient to the Father, we are to be obedient to Christ. My faith in Christ and the gift of life Christ gave me by His blood, makes me want to be faithful and and obey the will of God in my life. When we realize all we are and all we are to be comes from God, we can know that without obedience we can not be "In Christ" because we have not accepted the sacrifice Christ made. Extra credit Q: Once we are aware of the grace God gives to us freely and salvation thru Christ Jesus; as Christians we want to obey God and be faithful to the ways God has chosen for His people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoZes Marius Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Greetings! I think when we got a package such as this, we already had a bargain. If we forfeit one of the components, we will loose out on the many benefits of a package. I mean why waste such bargain that we did not deserve in the first place! Faith without deed is dead! Indeed we do not earn salvation by the works we do. Yet in order to exercise our faith, we need to do some work out (that is obedience). In this way, we can turn the "mustard seed" into a fruitful tree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Nabors Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) In order to be forgiven, we must not only believe (even the devil and demons believe) but must repent and obey. If we are not willing to obey we have not really repented. How can you change your ways without obeying? And you can only obey with the help of the Holy Spirit. We can say we are saved by grace rather than works because salvation results in obedience. We obey because we are saved. A person who is truly saved obeys not because it is expected but because he want to and realizes that fulfillment and joy in this life and the life after can only come through obedience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiree Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I believe that once we are forgiven we are to live in obedience to the Word of God in all areas of our lives. When we have not been obedient to the Word then we have really not truly embraced what Jesus did on the cross for us.... He has taken all our sin... He has paid a debt that we can not repay. I believe that we should honor Him by giving our lives as a living sacrifice to Him. How can we be obedient to something someone tells us if we do not act on it? So it is with faith. IF we have truly received remission for your sins by accepting what Jesus has done... then we must obey Him and His word. This is the only way the light of Jesus will be displayed to a lost and dying world. It is the only way Jesus is exhalted and lifted up... through our lives and living and breathing His word in our lived daily through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ not anything in our our power but by the resurrection of Jesus who dwells within us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken7 Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Your question "Why ...are they a package?" 1) Describes a relationship between God and us. Christs death & resurrection allows us to have Gods forgiveness, a free gift. Christ died because God wanted a relationship with us so much... He was willing to let His Son die. 2)God does not allow sin (into Heaven or into His relationship with us) therefore sin must be done away with ...expiated! My daily obedience is my part of our relationship, it is s love response, the same response we find in a healthy marriage. The deception of thinking one can exist w/o the other is to lie to God and ourself that a relationship with God exists at all. The "Love Response" of obedience comes from within an effective relationship with the living God. extra points: I wasn't saved by my "Love Response" this response (Obedience) is a result OF the relationship God initiated through Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionslady Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Not one is good, not one. If God disiplines those he loves as his word says, then that means at times we are all disobedient. Obedience is a growing, disipline that comes through knowledge of the Holy Spirit. It is not a human condition. We are saved through the blood of Jesus. Obedience and forgiveness come together as we "learn" how to obey, and the forgivness is through the grace of God. We can not do this of ourselves. Our strentgh to become obedient comes from our Lord Jesus. Who can say they are always obedient? Because the Lord knew that it is impossible for us to be without sinning daily we are granted his grace, nothing we can do can earn that. It is not about "us" but God. However we can learn to empty ourselves that the Lord may use us to work through us, to be his light in this world of darkness.To spread his gospel as the great commision. Not through any works we can do that anyone should boost, but through the power of the Holy Spirit we can be his eyes,feet, and used by the Father for his glory. To become Christlike is our goal. Something flesh cannot accomplish. The fruit of the spirit will be revelived through the works of the Spirit and not of us. We are just a shell for the spirit to "use" for the glory of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggie Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I'm a bit late on getting started here so there is only one thing I can really add to the many answers already given. Forgiveness and obedience are a package because as Paul said, "It is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives in me". Once we accept Christ as saviour for the forgiveness of our sins, we are to follow his example just as He obeyed His Father, so we are too. We are to show our faith BY our works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnJ Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Obedience is the outgrowth of forgiveness. To receive forgiveness we must first understand who we are without Christ, how utterly sinful we are and how unable we are to save ourselves. Having accepted this truth, we can then accept the gift of salvation. We can understand why Jesus died and how important it was for us that he did so. With that great outpouring of love on our behalf how can we want to do anything else but please him? Grace comes first. If works could save us, Jesus would not have had to die. True faith requires obedience, but it is God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juwulz Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I believe we are saved by grace not by our actions. Once I have confessed my sins to the Lord I am forgiven and in return I am feel that I should live my life in accordance to the word of Lord. As someone so elequently stated: How can we be obedient to something someone tells us if we do not act on it? So it is with faith. IF we have truly received remission for your sins by accepting what Jesus has done... then we must obey Him and His word. This is the only way the light of Jesus will be displayed to a lost and dying world. It is the only way Jesus is exhalted and lifted up... through our lives and living and breathing His word in our lived daily through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ not anything in our our power but by the resurrection of Jesus who dwells within us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenAnn456 Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 They do come together in this instance. When Jesus died by using his blood he shed on the cross that allowed us entrance to the forgiveness and true salvation of God. Now by not being obedient to what God requires of us, by the unrepayable deed that Jesus did for us would be of no respect or love to our Lord. One is empty without the other; God's grace and our obedience. Faith to be applied in our daily christian walk requires that we be responsible by the Word of God to know and to apply our walk, seeking the Holy Spirit to teach and minister God's Word. Then by using stepping out in faith and taking an action of walking the walk, not just talking the walk is what a balance and christian walk is about. Saying love all day, but not having any love present in my life is empty. If I share about love and live it that's action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arley Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 In order for me to be forgiven I must truly believe that Christ is the son of God and shed His blood for me. How can I believe that Christ gave up being God, was beaten and killed so His blood could be sprinkled for me, then not show my love by obeying His commands? If He is what He says He is, and He did this for me, how can I not totally submit? Extra Credit: First we are saved, then we obey. Not because we have to, but because we want to. Without the desire to obey I submit there is no true faith. Faith prompts us to obey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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