Q2. Forgiveness and Obedience

[Craig]

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)       

 

By repenting of sin and asking for forgiveness of that sin I am acknowledging my rebellion and disobedience to God. I am asking for reconciliation with God on His terms.  I am identifying with Jesus Christ and now being set aside for serving Him which requires obedience.  If I am going to have a relationship with God it is on His terms not mine.  This requires by obedience to His Word and standards which He freely provides.  Instruction and compliance are how we grow in Christ.   Natural man doesn't know what it means to be Christ-like or Godly or for that matter fully human as God created us to be.  So, we must listen, learn, and obey if we are to enjoy and delight in being a follower of Jesus Christ and all that comes with that relationship.

 

We are saved through grace from death and eternal separation from God.  We grow spiritually in Christ through obedience.  Additionally, what I physically do in this world reflects my spiritually and beliefs.  The visible reflects the invisible.  My works tell the world who and what I am and believe.  Everyone, regardless of belief, lives out that belief in this world.

 

You cannot separate actions/works from belief.  One compliments the other.  When Madonna claims what she does on the stage is not really her, she is self-deluded.

[dm1965]

(1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

 

 

Forgiveness, by the sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus refers to sacrifice. We are forgiven of our sins and have a direct relationshipw with God the Father because of the sacrifice of Christ. Jesus was obedient in His plan and purpose here on earth. We, if we desire to truly walk with God must surrender our lives to be more Christlike. Which of course exemplifies the obedience of loving and serving the One Ture God.

 

True faith that requires obedience is associated with our spiritual state moreso than our physical state. Obedience starts in the heart and then flows to the mind and the manifestation in our physical body. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. If man were able to change his own state of disarray spiritually then perhaps we wouldn't have the cares and issues that we as humans have had for thousands of years. We are totally dependant on our faith in Jesus, the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Grace and Mercy of God to effectively live a Christian life and walk the walk needed to be examples of God to a lost and dying world.

 

We cannot save ourselves. If that were the case there would have neer been a NT or prophecies pointing to the coming of the Lord in the OT.

 

Amen

[Praying Fish]

The sprinkling of blood is what cleanses us of our sins which allows us to have the ability to walk with obedience. Our obedience is a direct result of being forgiven. Basically we can see in the  OT how God's requirements of Isreal was being forgiven then the commands of God to walk according to the Law. Since we have the Holy Spirit how much more is required of us to walk in obedience to the Law of love in Jesus Christ.

[van]

Jesus Christ died on the cross so we can be forgiven so our sins. When you accept Jesus as you personal Savior there is no way you can't obey him after what He done for us. You can't accept one and not other, the Holy Spirit and Jesus is one you can't separate them.

[lighthouse2014]

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Forgiveness and obedience to Christ come as a package because we except Jesus as our savior, we are to obedient to commands to us. We are no longer of this world but citizens of heaven, Christ wants us to become just as he was to others, filled with his love, faith, and hope, to share the gospel with others.

It is deceptive to think we can have forgiveness with out obedience. If we believe in Christ, but are not obedient to his commands, we have denied ourselves into thinking we are believers. A true follower of Christ will be obedient to his commands and want to do as the Lord has planned for us.

Faith requires us to be obedient to Christ, we are saved by Gods grace rather than works. We can not work our way into heaven, but if we have faith our works will prove it.    

[freeman3:5-6]

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package?

I think of the scripture the reads: "by His stripes we are healed." an also " you were brought at a price." Christ died on the cross for our sins. He paid the price to redeem us. By what He has done we can be forgiven and have a rightly restore relationship with God. He loves us unconditionally and desires to be in a loving relationship with us. Christ says in John 14:15, " If you love me, keep my commands." Obedience is our loving response to the unfathomable love He showed us on the cross an continues to show us everyday of our life.

Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other?

Because for one we are at war against the world, the flesh and the devil. These forces are in in direct opposition to God, His word and His will. I think also because salvation is a free gift from God, it is easy to fall into the mindset that there is nothing we need to do in response, except to receive it. As we grow in faith through prayer and reading God's word; I think God begins to work out in our lives the things He see need work.( big job)

Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Grace is God's unmerited favor towards us. Jesus demonstrated that on the cross as He died for our sins and put us in right relationship with God. Obedience is our expression of love to God who has given us everything. As we obey and show our love to God, our faith increases.

[Joe_Applegarth]

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

 

Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package?  Obedience is the true test of our love for Christ and forgiveness of our sins is directly relative to obedience and living a righteous lifestyle.  We’re all human and, in our humanity, it’s inevitable that we will sin. Satan is our enemy!  It’s his mission to prevent us from being effective, productive Christians and he WILL take full advantage of our sins if we allow it. The devil is extremely good at what he does but even though he commands great power, he can never overcome us if we are fully committed and obedient to Christ.  Jesus Christ is our salvation and it’s through His precious blood that our sins can be forgiven and Satan can be defeated.

 

Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other?  Through our faith and obedience to Jesus Christ forgiveness is always available to us but we should never try to deceive ourselves into accepting and being comfortable in our sin.  As a Christian, if we truly aspire to forgiveness and to grow more Christ-like in our lives, we must first and foremost, love and surrender our lives completely to Him, study His word, pray continually and obey his commands.  

 

If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works?  Jesus said, “…if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”  If you truly love and have faith in Jesus you will always be obedient and follow His commands.  In God’s eyes, no one is justified simply by his/her works; saving grace is through both faith and works.  In James 1 (v. 14,26) the disciple wrote, “What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?” (v. 14) “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.” (v.26)  True faith begets true works just as true works begets true faith but saving grace is only through the blood of Jesus Christ.  The Baptizer said it best, “Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.  For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:16-17)

[Celtic Wanderer]

We can only serve the Lord in His power as sanctified Believers. We are made cleansed by the blood of the Lord Jesus and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.   Nothing that is unholy can be presented in service to Him.  We absolutely must lean on Him for His cleansing and empowering.  Sprinkling also relates to being included under the covenant made by Christ (see BNTC notes.)

This is a really sobering thought– I think many times I take this far too lightly.  How I need to wait on, and to walk with, the Lord!)

Faith unto salvation is not a work. There is nothing that we can do to earn our salvation. We must simply trust in the Word of God that has called us unto salvation. This salvation does not derive from us - it’s a gift! We are God’s workmanship – He does the work!

[David from NZ]

Nobody is perfect so nobody can be obedient all the time and so everyone needs forgiveness at least occasionally. 

If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? 

This is a complex question, because the answer depends on where you look. Jesus says:

(John.5, 24) 'Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.' This appears to say we are saved by God's grace alone. On the other hand, he also says:

(Matt.7, 21-23) 'Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.' It seems that its not that simple. The answer may be in James 2, 14-17:

'What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.'

In modern terms, "walk the talk". Its easy to believe in salvation and appear to have faith, but actions reveal the truth!

[Rapunzel]

On 1/22/2004 at 10:14 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

If God forgives me of any sin, then it means I must live out that forgiveness by completely turning away from that sin.  It makes no sense God forgives me for lying yet I continue to tell lies. 

Grace is a gift; it has nothing to do with anything we have done.  We cannot work to earn grace or salvation.  

[Christopher Olamiji Taiwo]

On 1/23/2004 at 2:14 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Forgiveness and obedience comes together as a package because once we believe in the sprinkling of the blood for cleansing of sins we must believe and obey the commandment attached to our faith in the personthe sheds His blood.

It is a deceptive to think that you can be forgiven without obedience to the condition the brought the forgiveness. We don't deserve the forgiveness it is by the grace and mercy of God that we were forgiven not of our righteousness or any good work but by our faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, forgiveness and obedience is a package for our transport to our heavenly home and to receive and blessing from our father. 

[Happy and in Love]

To love the Lord is to be obedient to His will.  The word of God teaches us that man born of a woman, days are full of troubles and His word also tells us that we all fall short of His glory.  The word of God also teaches us to repent of our sins daily.  We are to leave the altar if we have wronged our brother, repent and seek forgiveness and then return back  to the altar.  Therefore, the two is a package that all saints called by God should perform daily.

Satan wants us to believe that it does not take all of that and its not necessary.  As saints we must always remember that our enemy wants our faith.  We have to continue to seek the Lord by being obedient to His word.  Trouble times will cause the sinful nature within us to rise up but praying will overcome and subdue it.  We show God that we love Him by being obedient to His word, walking in His ways and repenting of our sins.

Grace is God's unmerited favor.  He gives us what we do not deserve.  He forgives us and gives us exceeding and abundantly above what we can think.  Our works are not always done in the right heart and/or in the right spirit.  But He still blesses us and forgives us when we ask Him to.  

I love the Lord and am seeking a more intimate intense relationship with Him. I want to be found righteous and in right standing with Him.

[LWooten]

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package?

I believe forgiveness and obedience go hand in hand because Jesus' blood was shed for us for the remission of sins, once we have repented and become clean, we are instructed on what to do for Him and must obey by following Him.

 

Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other?

It is deceptive to think we can have one without the other because it can lead to living in error and being full of lawlessness. Not taking heed to the Word, therefore still living a life of selfishness, not understanding their salvation.

 

 

[Talyah]

Just as Yeshua told the woman who was accused of adultry to go and sin no more, he tells each one who accepts his grace (the work of the cross- His covering) to go and sin no more. What is sin? It is transgression of the law. What law? The law as written in the first five books of the bible. Each one was born into sin. Each one falls short/misses the mark of glorifying the King here in this present homeland. One should continuously investigate oneself for sin and discover what is the good and pleasing way to the King. 

[Andre T]

Once we have been forgiven, we will want to obey the One who has shown undeserved grace towards us in thankfulness and love (which we often have too little of)

[Cigarshaped]

 I get the impression that the new generation(s) suffer from two things.1) They don't see a need for forgiveness. 2) They have difficulty subjecting themselves to authority. This is a big generalisation, but I feel there is a growing pressure, (driven by Satan I assume), to dismiss these essential reasons for faith from modern society.

We need to realise our imperfection in the sight of a perfect God. We obey our loving Father through respect, awe and love - not fear!

Obedience is a state if mind, our free will rules. However a supply of grace is needed, as some of us are so weak spirituallly.

[Old Jerry]

If we want to be forgiven we must obey God. One of the things that we have to do is repent which means to turn our life around and obey God. Grace is what we get when we receive the Holy Spirit. After that we are trying to please the Holy Spirit and in order to do that we need to show our works.

[blezed]

(1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Jesus died so that we may be forgiven for our sins.  One cannot believe in Jesus, but refuses to listen and follow him.  God is a kind and loving God and always forgives us. Sometimes we can take this for granted.  If you have true faith, you cannot help but to be obedient to his word. We are saved by grace rather than works in Ephesians intent is that our salvation will result in works.  

[Tyreek]

The Scriptures' first use of the verb "command" (Genesis 2) reveals just how connected obedience is to life, and disobedience to death. Obedience is a state of complying, or simply obeying God. We as Christians are commanded to obey God, Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!” Acts 5:29 (NIV) Ephesians 4:32 gives this command, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” Forgiveness is an act of obedience. Unfortunately, some link Christianity to only forgiveness of sins, without obedience, to be accepted into heaven. A person will ask for forgiveness, claiming Jesus as their savior but does not love him enough to give up their earthly pleasures. God commands, “Obey the Lord by doing what I tell you. Then it will go well with you, and your life will be spared.” Jeremiah 38:20 (NIV) Expecting forgiveness from God is the same thing as wanting to manipulate Him and is itself a sin. God is not stupid, he knows who wants fire insurance between those who have true faith. God does not want a faith that is empty and hypocritical, He is looking for true faith that results from true works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith” Ephesians 2:8 (NIV) “The Law cannot save us because we are incapable of keeping it;” Matthew 19:16-17 (NIV) therefore, salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ

[JJ1950]

I did not earn my salvation; Jesus died for my sins.  If I say that I am a believer and follower of Christ, that means that I believe Jesus died for my sins and that I will love others as he loves me.  In obedience, my purpose in this life is to share God's words with others.  

[Christopher Olamiji Taiwo]

On 1/23/2004 at 2:14 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Forgiveness and obedience come as a package because Jesus Christ is our High Priest. We were forgiven through our faith in Jesus Christ shedding blood on the cross and obedience is Christians destiny, we are to obey Jesus Christ in order obtain forgiveness according to John 3:16. 
It is a deceptive to think you can have either forgiveness without obedience or obedience without forgiveness because the two cannot be separated from each other. You cannot be forgiven without faith and obeying Jesus Christ by keeping His words. The true faith requires obedience because you must prove your faith by obeying what you believed and obedience is not a work but an act of what you believed. Therefore, salvation came through faith in Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross not by any works or good deeds according to Ephesians 2:8-10.

[tires]

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

because without forgiveness their could be no obedience...when i am born again the blood of Christ is the propitiation for my sin...makes me a new creature as though i have

never sinned before God...this new creation enables me to be obedient to Christ....prior to new life i had only one nature ..dead in my trespasses and sins ( ephesians 2 )

so i could not obey God...It is deceptive to think you can have one without the other because it takes both of them to identify that either one of them is real..extra credit..

how can we say we are saved by grace rather than works if true faith required obedience?....very very simple...We do good works for God BECAUSE we are saved....we do not do 

good works TO GET saved....if someone has no good works then how could they be saved?...if one reads Ephesians 2:8-10..it answers this question..."For by grace you are 

saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God not of works so no one can boast. For we are Gods workmanship crreated in Christ Jesus for good works that

God has prepared before hand that we should walk in them"

[JanMary]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2004 at 6:14 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

1. We first receive forgiveness when we meet Jesus at the foot of the cross. Until then we are separated from God and obedience is not possible in the sense of being led by the Holy Spirit to follow Jesus or to live out His commands. 

2. What I might think has no relevance if it conflicts or disagrees with what God's Word says and He says both are necessary.

3. Saying "Yes" to His gift of salvation, is not a "work"...it's a response to His amazing love and forgiveness.

4. We are told that after salvation we are to do the works which He has prepared in advance for us to do....but these are not "works of the flesh" to earn His love or approval or to be born again. They are our response to the leading of the Holy Spirit while yielding to His Lordship and He works them through us. (Works of the flesh are wood, hay and stubble which will be burned up when tested in eternity.)

 

 

[norkie]

one is free in knowing that they are forgiven but that forgiveness give way of peace because of Jesus Christ who died on the cross so we can be set free. Without the blood of Jesus Christ this was not possible

One is never free if their sins are not forgiven.

 

 

[Sandtoad]

• I believe forgiveness is internal and we show our faith by being obedient which is external (something we can see).  
• Obedience is not necessarily manifested through "works."   Obedience can be loving the Lord and wanting to be more like Him, not because we think we will be saved if we obey.