hanks Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) For our sins to be forgiven there has to be the sprinkling of Jesus’ blood, since only His blood can wash away our sins. For this to happen we must sincerely repent of our sins and place our trust in Christ for our salvation. Once saved, the Holy Spirit causes us to obey by setting us apart unto obedience. It is now impossible to truly believe in Jesus and yet not obey His commands. So we cannot have forgiveness without obedience. Once we have been saved and have a personal relationship with our Saviour Jesus Christ, we will want to be obedient to His commands. If we are not obedient we should question our salvation. This does not include our occasional mishaps as we become more and more like Jesus. God choose us to be saved, not on account of any merit in us, but only because of His grace and mercy - it is all about grace and mercy. We do not receive the punishment we deserve – death (Rom 6:23a). In Eph 2:4-5 we read: “But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our transgressions - it is by grace you have been saved” (Eph 2:4-5). Also, “the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 6:23b) – and this, as sinners, is what we do not deserve, but receive as a free gift! Grace is receiving the salvation we do NOT deserve. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast” (Eph 2:8-9). Our salvation is not by works, that is, it cannot be earned by any worthy deed we might do. So we see that we are only saved by our true faith in Christ and the Lord’s grace, and that our obedience does not earn us any merit with God, however, if our faith is genuine, it will produce obedience. Our Heavenly Father is so rich in mercy - He does not treat us the way we deserve to be treated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionwolf Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) When one accepts Jesus they are surrendering their self to God. This allows us to do as God wills which means obedience. One that is saved through faith is justified to God. To continue living as a sinner means falling from grace. Our salvation was for naught. Obedience comes after salvation. Ephesians 2:8-10 shows this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santhana David Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Q2. Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? The shedding of Jesus’ blood He won the forgiveness of sins which in itself is salvation in order that we may enter into God’s Heavenly Kingdom thru obedience to Jesus. I believe it must be seen and understood that forgiveness is an act of obedience, therefore a package. Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Forgiveness signifies true repentance which is followed by obedience – but if one thru disobedience falls into the same state of sinfulness then it means one never truly sought repentance. Hence FORGIVENESS = OBEDIENCE. Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) Well, the answer to this, I believe lies in understanding that the nature of one’s reliance on God, through obedience, is only made possible through faith. Works on the other hand, is the accomplishment of some good work thru which one may assume that one has earned a status of privilege before God. This is what St Paul in a number of his letters has described as boasting. No one, no matter what works he/she has achieved, or rather accomplished can make a claim on God, let alone earn a standing before Him. Humans are saved by God’s grace received thru faith which requires obedience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliya721 Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 I am forgiven. This in turn causes me to want to obey. It's very cyclical but both are necessary for growth. I can't expect to be forgiven and not want to obey God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Ratushny Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) They come together because we need both; however, we get the forgiveness through Jesus' death and resurrection, and according to Peter, we get the obedience through the Holy Spirit. It we live by the Spirit, our obedience bears the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus' command was to "love one another", the Holy Spirit enables us to do so as we are perfected to be conformed into the image of Christ. Through God's grace, we begin to "obey" by allowing the Holy Spirit to direct and change us and the evidence of that obedience is the resulting action proving same. Not only does he choose us, save us and forgive us, he empowers us! I am graced by grace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilen Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 I think that forgiveness and obedience come together as a package because God asks us to obey and live by His commandments. He knows that most of us are weak and not spiritually strong to do this. He is a merciful, loving and forgiving Father. He is willing to forgive us when we confess our sins. God promised us forgiveness when He sacrificed His only Son for our redemption. “When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father's commandments and remain in His love.” John 15:10. One however cannot say that one is becoming a Christian so that he can get his sins forgiven. No, he has to open his heart to God and walk God’s commandments. He has to prove by his faith works that he is a Christian. Forgiveness and obedience are linked. We can only have forgiveness if we are obedient to God and are doing His will. Obedience to God shows our love, our faithfulness to Him. The choice of obedience is left to us. Those who keep His commandments do so because they love and believe in Him. Even those who not followed His commandments can ask for forgiveness and have it granted them. We are saved by grace and exalted by what we do. Our faith cannot be seen since that is an internal quality and can only be expressed externally by our good deeds. All works are acts of faith which one possesses beforehand. Salvation by grace comes to anyone who asks for it and accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anstey Jeremiah Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Obedience and sprinkling is held together by a powerful bond called repentance; you cannot be obedient if you are not repentant for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You cannot be forgiven if you did not repent, thus no access to the blood of Christ. You can fool men into believing that you are being sprinkled or being obedient but God knows your heart, the place where you show repentance. Saying that we are saved by Grace is a correct but primary statement. Our acces to grace is free gift form the Father and Son , well the actions of both the father and son; and we must follow suit. The father says He loves us and wants to save us: His action was to send His Son; the Son said he would do it; His action was to die on the cross for us, making Grace available. If we say we want it, then we have to be obedient and access the grace and then walk in the footsteps, statues and precepts of Christ; be Holy as he is holy. While grace is always available, to access it repentance and obedience has to be its constant partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonY Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) Obedience is what we attempt to perform as we worship God and live our lives according to the precepts which his son Jesus has given us. However it is impossible for a person to satisfy the medians that we wouldn't need to offer in order to become wholly or sanctified. Therefore it is necessary that we be forgiven for the times that we fall short and would not, by ourselves enter the kingdom of God. Jesus acting as I are high priest,who, by his own sacrifice and blood, atones for our sin and offers pardon and forgiveness for our sins. God has elected us, he has chosen us to be forgiven for our sins. It is the grace of God. people have being born to sin it. No matter how hard we try we will still sin. In other words, by ourselves, we cannot be obedient to God- we will always tend to Fall Away. In order to have obedience to God God must forgive our falling away. With God's forgiveness we can be obedient. true obedience to God can only be possible by the grace of God. Without this Grace we will fail. But with God's grace we have being elected to serve God in obedience with the aid of his grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Grant Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Listening and following instructions is our purpose and destiny in Jesus Christ. Jesus acts as our High Priest, who, by his own sacrifice and blood, atones for our sin and offers pardon and forgiveness for our sins. We must listen and follow Jesus which shows that we want a true relationship with him. We were born in sin and needed to have a way of being forgiven, therefore, Jesus sheded his blood for us to be conciled to God. That was our way of being forgiven through his powerful blood because the blood of animals was not powerful and clean enough to help with our forgiveness. When we forgive, we are obedient. 2. Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? People want to be forgiven, but they are not willing to obey and deny themselves. We must seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness not ours because our is wrong. If we want to be forgiven, we must forgive. 3. Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) Grace is something given to us that we don’t deserve. If we work for it, we will say it is something we did and boast about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria C Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 We are saved by grace, the sprinkling of Jesus blood gave us forgiveness. As a believer in Jeus redemptive work, we are endowed with His Spirit. If His Spirit lives in you, you want to be obedient. If you have no desire for obedience, then I would have to question if you are really endowed with His Spirit, which would also make me question if you are really saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbygail15 Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 On 1/22/2004 at 9:14 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) Forgiveness means that we believe that Jesus is God and gave His life to free us from the curse of sin. If we believe this then we must be willing to follow our king. Obedience is the outward sign of our salvation. We follow and obey His word because we believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilka Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) A Christian believes Trinity' God, I think we have obedience to do forgiveness, we follow Christ from depth in Heart, we study His way clearly, then Grace and peace be yours in abundance. Amin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Put it this way, if a judge lets you go for something you did wrong, why would you continue to do whatever it was that got you into trouble in the first place? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? It’s like having a bad stain removed from a shirt and someone pays a high price to have it done for you only to put the shirt back on and go roll around in the mud. It means the person who paid to have the shirt cleaned wasted his money on you and you have no appreciation for what was done. It’s like the lepers who didn’t return to thank Jesus. Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) Jesus was tempted by Satan to jump off the high place of the temple and Jesus replied, “thou shalt not tempt God”. God’s grace saved Jesus by giving Him the wisdom not to follow what Satan desired of Him. Just like us being saved by Jesus from our sins which would cause eternal destruction. We were saved from them so now that you’ve been cleaned up you need to stay that way. Don’t be like the person who would make a mockery of what Jesus has done for us by putting on the cleaned shirt and rolling in the mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertha Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Obedience is an expression of our gratitude in having been forgiven for our wrongs(sins). It's a way of wanting to right our wrong. It is a manifestation of true repentance. There's a complete about face if there's genuine repentance. When we believe in something, we are moved to proof that we believe in that something. It is automatic. I love my parents therefore I obey them. I want to please them. Make them happy. Make them proud. I know they love me and want the best for me. So I obey them. Same thing with God. I have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, all my sins have been washed away. Jesus took my place on the cross, I believe in His redemptive work. I am grateful for my salvation! How can I ever repay Him for this, but by obeying His commands. The least I can do. For no works I perform can ever repay the full price required by God to redeem us. It is by grace, undeserved favor. It is by faith in God's provision, Jesus Christ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowena_ellaga Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 - Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Because a forgiven individual is a new creation in Christ Jesus. He doesn't live on his own, but in the will of the Lord. - Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Because you might think you are saved, but may not be. - Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? Because it is those who do the will of the Father that are truly His children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Ayaa Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Forgiveness is obeying God because once you ask for forgiveness that means you are no longer going to do the contrary to what God wants, but to do what he wants. It is deceptive to think you have one and not all because that actually means you have non of the two, if you cannot ask for forgiveness then you are disobedient too. The two go hand in hand.Yes we are saved by grace not works but through faith and faith requires one to be obedient to obtain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmndungu Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Forgiveness and Obedience brings about the fruit and this is what makes us true disciples of Jesus John 8:31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosegarden Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 On 1/22/2004 at 9:14 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) a. I didn't know it was obedience at the time, but I was in desperate straights when I surrendered my life to Jesus. I just said, Lord, I give you my life, my husband's, my children's and said ...do what you will and He graciously honored that commitment. Then he showed me that our unhappy marriage was not all my husband's fault but it was mine too. I asked for forgiveness and Jesus sprinkled me with His precious blood and saved me. Therefore, knowing what He did for me I obeyed and He forgave. I know they go together. b. Because you need both. When you obey you get more of God's grace, and when you are forgiven the result is Grace. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. We are saved by grace, not by works but works come as a result of Grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Q. Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? A. Obedience to Christ must necessarily follow forgiveness of sin as one without the other is with no effect Q. Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? A. See part be of above Q. Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) A. We are saved by grace but we require works to bring out others to salvation in obedience to the great commission and healing the sick, visiting the sick in hospitals. giving to the needy as directed by the Lord Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattzat1113 Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 On 1/22/2004 at 8:14 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) I challenge that: Were they a package both would appear together. They don't. Worship with the lips often precedes obedience whether it be in thought, word or deed. How else would we understand "he who began a good work ..." "will bring it to completion ..."? The work of Christ on Calvary is once for all! There is a constant need by us to be conformed. The presence of Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God are able to "put to death" that which we want to die to and not feed it snacks in the night time. We have been created for good works that we should walk in them and not 'jump the tracks' to get back to the mud and vomit from which we came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2014 Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 1/22/2004 at 8:14 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) Forgiveness and obedience come together as a package because we realize that Christ died for our sins. We are forgiven of our sins because of his sacrifice, we are to be obedient to his commands and submit ourselves to him. Some Christians are deceived into believing they can have forgiveness and yet not be obedient to the Lord. This is called hy-per grace, to continue to sin and believing that grace has covered our sins regardless of our action. We are saved by grace rather than works and this is not of our own. If we were saved by our works it would be boasting in ourselves, not God's grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechelle Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 The forgiveness that we get when we accept Jesus into our life is the sprinkling of Jesus blood. It is an action of taking on Jesus. Conforming to. To be like Jesus. When you love Jesus you want to be obedient and to be like Him. Not just being deceptive it's harmful to your life to think you can have one without the other. There's no Works in this life I could possibly do to earn God's grace. I have been a ratchet person and done horrible things but God is so freely given me His grace and I love Him for that. It's not something earned it's something He freely gives to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonY Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10) forgiveness and obedience come together as they are one package. Forgiveness without obedience would be similar to love without marriage. God gives us both of these pairs in a togetherness. If there is no obedience there is no forgiveness and there is no meaningful forgiveness without obedience. When God gives forgiveness he expects that our obedience will naturally follow otherwise our repentance is Hollow. there is no amount of work that will enable one to be saved. It is only through Grace that we are safe to do agood works. This is a one-way process. We must be saved by grace in order to do good works. If our good works are not accompanied by God's grace they are useless. However forgiveness and Armenians are more or less are two ways situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Thonard Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 On Friday, January 23, 2004 at 2:14 AM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-1 I believe they come together because one naturally leads to the o5her. Jesus obeyed till death, which is something not natural to any human being I'd say. At the gate of death, many of us confessions and beliefs may change but He obeyed till death. Through the sprinkling of the blood whereby we received forgiveness, we were also given power to obey. The blood shed carries and carried the ability to make us bold unto obedience and love for the one who carried the Cross of our sins. Without His blood, I don't think it'd have possible. It's deceptive to think that way because salvation is a package that comes from giving your life to Jesus Christ. Everything included in the package becomes yours when you take that step. We are saved unto belief and obedience. Salvation therefore comes before obedience. Any work that was done before his death was a dead work because we did not even qualify. So none of our works could have said us except So grace was all we had and all we needed. But after Salvador Salvation through grace, we've now been welcomed to good works through faith which He himself had predestined us for. (Sorry. Some of the words seem not to be able to delete and I don't know why. That's why there's a couple of typing mistakes in the text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elaineer Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 When we are forgiven we become obedient to the Lord. 2 God knows our hearts. 3 God gave us a gift by saving us through his grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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