Pastor Ralph Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickledilly Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I believe that as Daniel read the prophecy of Jeremiah, he understood in a way like never before the purpose of the exile and captivity of the Jews in Babylon. God had reason and intent in it, and He gave the promise of mercy when the purpose was completed. In ignoring divine warnings, God's people had abandoned Him long before the Babylonians took them by force to a strange land and destroyed Jerusalem. Even then they were in an apostate condition. Their captivity was a righteous judgment from Yahweh meant to turn their hearts back to Him so He could pour out mercy and restoration. These were Daniel's people, their God and heritage were also his, and he also bore the consequence of judgment against them. They needed a kinsman to stand in the gap. To intercede for another is to take on their burden as your own. I believe you must internalize and feel it yourself in order to even begin knowing how to rightly and fully pray. Righteous Daniel identified himself with the sins of his people because he could not authentically pray for them without associating himself with their condition before God. That is NOT a call to take the sins of others as your own; it is a call to understand and gain perspective to pray in a meaningful and effective way and to bear another up before the LORD when that one cannot or will not do it for him/herself. This is a picture of Jesus as He later came as the ultimate Intercessor/Mediator. Jesus accepted and took on the burden of humanity's sinful condition in order to represent us before the Father. Although He never accepted our sin as His own, He internalized and felt it all in order to identify with us and to rightly and fully destroy it. Not just in theory or mental knowledge but with His own experience of humbling Himself before the Father to see our need and take on our burden, He knows our utter depravity, unfaithfulness, and pride. He knows the shame of our rebellion and failure, the anguish of our wicked hearts separated from our Creator, the tormenting distress of having God turn away from us because of our sin. From hanging on the cross through supernatural darkness as He took on that sin to put it to death, He knows the blackness of our iniquity. In our place, he experienced the resulting wrath of God against sin and knows the judgment ahead for those who are never redeemed to God through faith in Him. Jesus identified with us in our condition of sin in order to intercede on our behalf with God. He's the only One who can stand in the gap for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiKosum Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Daniel is part of a sinful nation in the same way that a member of the human race bears guilt because of Adam's sin (Romans 5:1221). Daniel, an 80 - 85 year old man, fasts, he wears sackcloth, he sprinkles ashes on his own head. This is not external. He feels the grief, is overwhelmed with the burden, is humbled before God. He, a righteous man, takes ownership for the sins of others so he can intercede for them. Daniel in his own person fulfills for Israel the condition and promise of 2 Chronicles 7:14: "If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." Our Lord Jesus, on the other hand, took our sins on His own body and physically died on the cross to take away our sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvoryEagle Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He knows he is of the people, by the people and for the people. This is beyond stereotyping; it is authentic inclusion. He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Short of dying on the cross, the attitude and approach was the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Q3 (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? Daniel is a Hebrew, enslaved along with his nation. He and his 3 friends have paid a high price in being castrated to ensure their faithfulness to the king but whose first allegiance was to their God. Daniel had a high position in Babylon yet was a very humble man who loved and revered God and his fellow Hebrews. He acknowledged that he too was a sinner and accepted his role to stand in the gap as the mediator between the chastened nation and God. We are each called to intercession as the mediator between God and man as Daniel was, and for our nation to turn away from sin and to be reconciled to God. Like Daniel, we pray with God's heart of love and compassion, remembering we too are sinners saved by grace. He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for His people? Daniel, I believe, was chosen by God to serve as intercessor for the nation. He was positioned for this, geographically and spiritually, emotionally and educationally for his role, in a similar way that Jesus was perfectly fitted for His mission to save the whole world though Jesus was the sinless Son Of God and the only One Who could fulfill His mission. Both were obedient to complete the work they were called to fulfill. Both identified with their "brothers and sisters" and desired their freedom from the bondage which enslaved them. They each paid a price in suffering in order to bring reconciliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD35 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Daniel feels the grief , is overwhelmed with the burden , is humbled before God. He is a righteous man, takes ownership in a sense, for the sins of others so he can intercede for them. Jesus takes on himself the sins of the world and saves the world by dying on the cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santhana David Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Being a Jew, and that too, a righteous one, he did not see himself as a “stand alone” person but as a nation, thereby identifying himself whole nation of Israel. There is no human who had walked the world, still living or those yet to come, is/will be without sin. There are no perfect humans except the Son of Man, Jesus who is Human as well as Divine, and who made Himself nothing, is truly without sin. The only sins He carried were the sins of the world, to destroy sin and win salvation, to make the believing world children of God. What Daniel accomplished for his people, their return to Israel was only through his intercessory prayer. But Jesus, carried upon Himself the sins of the world and died on the Cross to redeem humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrayingMan Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? By the way he opened his prayer, we see his love and dedication for God. However, according to the covenant, he is part of the rebellious people and nation. He is part of the covenant people. He bears the responsibility as a community. "5 We have sinned and done wrong. We have been wicked and have rebelled; we have turned away from your commands and laws. 6 We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes and our fathers, and to all the people of the land." (9:5-6) Daniel feels hte guilt and grieves for the sins of his people. In our day, we see ourselves in God's view as individuals, not bearing the responsibility of the community of believers. Jesus took the sins of the people upon Himself. He sees us as individuals, but He also sees us as community, as a people whom He loves and for whom He died for. As Jesus weeps for the people He loves, so ought we to weep for the people He loves and needs forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blezed Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Daniel is interceding on behalf of the people of Israel. This is done by taking on the sins of the people. This compares of Jesus up to His dying on the cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people. He identified with the people and therefore with the sin of his people. Daniel, a righteous man, was still a man with a sin nature. Although he did not commit those sins he identified with them as part of the nation, part of the national sin. As Daniel worshipped God he knew his own position with God, as well as the position of the people of Israel. Like Isaiah he saw the blackness of his heart next to holy God. Jesus, God Himself, came to earth to identify with us and to bare our sins for us. As Daniel interceded for his people, Jesus lives forever to intercede for His people. As Daniel's people were brought out of Babylon (all who would), so we have been brought out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of God's dear Son by His death on the cross. For we are not of those who shrink back but of those who believe and are saved. God Bless! Jen Romans 5:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Grant Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? 1. He a righteous man, takes ownership, in a sense, for the sins of others so he can intercede for them.If we are to intercede as Daniel did -- as a member of the sinning nation -- we must in a sense take that sin upon ourselves. Daniel was a very righteous man who lived without compromise all his life. 2. Daniel doesn't take on sin in the sense that Jesus did, bearing others' sins in his body on the cross (1 Peter 2:24). But Daniel is part of a sinful nation in the same way that a member of the human race bears guilt because of Adam's sin (Romans 5:12-21). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisbarak Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 When we intercede for others, we are standing with others, confessing their sins and not implying we don't have sin. Jesus' took the burden of our sins on himself and still interceded for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwalane Mofokeng Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? As a leader, he identifies himself with the people as their high priest. He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? He was with them, he suffered with them, but without sin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2014 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Daniel even though he is a righteous person, identifies himself with the sinful people of Israel, he takes upon himself their sins and ask God for his mercy upon them. Similarly, Jesus being a righteous person, humbled himself and was obedient to the commands of God. He took upon himself the sins of not only the nation of Israel, but the whole world. Thus all that believe in him may receive mercy from God and live eternally with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Even though Daniel was a righteous man in his generation, it was actually like he was taking the sins of others on himself and pleading to God through prayer to forgive the sins that he committed against God. Daniel being human, like all of us, bear sins through Adam and because of that Daniel includes himself in his prayer and plead to God. Jesus sought for forgiveness of His people through dying on the cross for the sins of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hinckster Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people?Daniel interceded as a member of the sinning nation -- he took the sins of the nation upon himself. Daniel was a very righteous man who lived without compromise all his life. His sinless, righteous life showed glory to God and God placed Daniel alongside Noah and Job.How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?Jesus was also a very sinless and righteous person. Likewise, he took the sins of the whole world on His shoulders, and in turn died on the cross the whole worlds sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? As a righteous man interceding for his nation, Daniel didn't commit these sins, yet he owned the sins of the nation as his own and went before God. With a repentant heart he petition God on behalf of the nation. Jesus is our example, to carry the weight of the sins of the nations when we go before God seeking forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for His people? Daniel admits ‘we have sinned’ thereby including himself among the offenders, even though he had not rebelled against God. Despite having a close relationship with God, he still counted himself as a sinner in need of forgiveness – he knew he was not without sin. He mentions each sin specifically: wickedness, rebellion, disobedience, immorality, and the refusal to listen to God’s prophets. Our Saviour Jesus, who was without sin, took all the sins of the world upon Himself. Unlike Daniel, Jesus could forgive sin. Daniel could only identify himself with their sins and plead for forgiveness on their behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducminh Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Daniel is a righteous man but also humble. He bears the love for his country therefore; he identifies the sins of Israelites as his own. The sins of Israel are communal transgressions against God's covenant, so Daniel has seen himself committing those sins. Jesus sought forgiveness for his people and those in the world who believe in Him. He offered Himself as a Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin to those who believe in Him. Because He did not commit any sin, His sacrifice was a perfect offering to God the Father for the salvation of many in the new covenant. The covenant that was made between God and men through Him. Mat_26:28 because this is my blood of the new covenant that is being poured out for many people for the forgiveness of sins. Mar_14:24 He told them, "This is my blood of the covenant that is being poured out for many people. Luk_22:20 He did the same with the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant sealed by my blood, which is being poured out for you. Rom_11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Heb_13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleezah Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Daniel is an Israelite. He was standing in the gap for his people so their sins can be forgiven as noted in Hebrew 8:12 (KJV), “For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.” I won’t comment on how it compares to anything Jesus (who was perfect) did. It certainly helps to have a righteous person intercede on one’s behalf. Sin stands in sharp contrast to the righteousness of God. In confession, Daniel recognized God's justice in punishing His people. Confession led to petition for forgiveness and restoration, a petition based on God's mercy and not on justice. The answer was immediate. God responds to humble confession and works out His purposes for His people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Q. Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? A. In humility Daniel considers himself not a saint who is righteous thus includes himself among the sinful people of his nation setting an example for us. Q. He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? A. He compares with Jesus in the sense that Jesus being God without sin came as a man to carry our sin and thus died in our place that we may have eternal life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn’t commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Daniel was dedicated to his people, his nation and his God. He had no sense of self righteousness, he acknowledged his need for wisdom from God (2:23). Daniel put himself in the place of his people, he brought the transgressions of his people before God, he also acknowledged his sin before God. Even though he was a righteous man compared to his people, in front of God, Daniel required God's mercy for his sinful nature and rebellion also. Jesus took on the sins of the world, he became a curse for us. The difference is that he was without sin (Galatians 3:13). He..."became obedient to death --even death on a cross!" (Philippians 2:6-8). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenBoy Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Q3. (Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? 1Daniel believes fully in God ,and also repentance ,As a member of the Jew ,Daniel understands his peoples sins and how far they are from God ,Daniel ,as a leader and a representative of the people ,takes on the task of delivering the Jews from the dreadful punishment he believes would occur as a result of disobedience ,When punishment comes ,God promises that he would hear the cry of the faithful , Daniel did not commit the sins ,but he is fully aware of it ,and also assured of the Favor of God as past experiences he underwent . Jesus is unique ,Daniel is a type ,fully human,with the rightful heart ,that showed (exhibited )a nature of Jesus ,That Daniel reflected the character of Christ like behavior,Unwavering to the sufferings and obedient unto death , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbiemac Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Daniel 9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit these sins. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Daniel puts himself in the middle of the sin Israel committed. In a sense he bore the sins of the nation in intercessory prayer, a preview of what Jesus did on the cross by bearing our sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Daniel identifies himself with the sins of his people because he is part of those people. Being part of those people is also responsible for their actions. Jesus took on the forgiveness for all people where Daniel only took on the sins of his nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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