Q4. Deceit

[Pastor Ralph]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

[ducminh]

God did not praise Rahab for lying, but she was certainly prompted by His Spirit to protect those Israelites sent by Joshua.  The Bible has many examples showing that God is also the creator of evil, and He has full authority to use evil for the purpose of salvation.

Satan, is the evil spirit that God has created for tempting mankind.  This is the first example, a fact that we ought to know.  Without Satan, there should have no need of the sacrifice of Christ for salvation.

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Therefore we should not judge the lie of Rahab when she is serving God’s purpose.  Rahab’s lie is a good example for us to know when a lie is permissible in the sight of God.  But it is not permissible to lie for protecting the sins of the Christian churches (example the cover-up of paedophilia that has now been uncovered for the entire world to see).  That kind of lie has been severely condemned by Christ and there is no forgiveness granted by God.

Mat 18:

6  But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7  Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

For conclusion, most lies are sinful when they serve the selfishness, greediness, pride and **** of men.  But a lie that is prompted by the Spirit of God to serve His purpose like the case of Rahab, then who dares to condemn it when God has given His approval and protection.

[JanMary]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:44 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

 

Q4: God honored Rahab for her faith. That she chose to lie to protect the spies was justified, and also saved her life and the lives of her family. I think in

      certain situations it may be the lesser of two evils. Certainly in cases of  life and death,  yes, it is permissible. To lie is sin, but the saving of lives is

virtue. Rahab had no knowledge of sin, so her lie demonstrated her faith and her desire to follow God. 

 

[DawnMc13]

      Rehab is not commended for her lie. She is commended for welcoming the spies, for giving the spies lodging and for directing them to go off in a different direction.  Although I can understand her pure motive in lying, I can not say that breaking God's law is ever justified. The lie needs repentance and forgiveness. *We don't know what would have happened if she had not lied but I am sure that God's will would have been accomplished anyway.

     I also believe that if we would choose not to lie ( thus obey God) and suffer severe temporal consequences because of  our obedience that we would be under God's grace and need not fear.

[Commissioned]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:44 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

 

Rahab is honored not for lying to the king's men but for her faith in God. One could say that Rahab's lying is justified in this case because she prevented the death of the men.  There might be times when lying might be permissible if it leads to saving a person's life? Maybe.  Or, we could tell the truth and allow to supernaturally intervene if He desires.

[van]

God didn't honor Rahab for lying because it's a sin. He honored her for putting her life in danger in order to hide the Israelites. God don't accept lying and it isn't justified in any case. You should ask God to forgive for lying which is sinful. There is no permissible time that you should lie, but, if you do, you should immediately pray for God to forgive for lying.
 

[Eilen]

)Yes , he did.  The bible tells us that lying is a sin.  I look on Rehab as being a vessel used by God for the restoring of the Promised Land to Israel. Her action fitted in with God’s plan.

Rehab’s lying is justified.  As she said to the spies, Joshua 2:9 ‘I know that the Lord has given you the land and that the fear of you has fallen on us.’  She saw that God was with Israel .  The lie she told was an act of faith. She feared the spies because she knew that God was with them.  Her fear of God made her hide the spies thus lying to the king’s soldiers.

c)  Yes I think that it is permissible to lie if doing so can bring about some good or prevent some evil event from occurring.

[Guitar Jim]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men?

With all due respect, I really think we're barking up the wrong tree here. It's universally accepted that it's OK to lie in times of war to confuse the enemy. This spying mission was the first step in what definitely was a war. We must remember that God is in sovereign control here and no doubt directed the spies to Rahab's home. We also need to remember, since we're talking about Rahab's faith in this week's lesson, that it's God who gave Rahab the faith to believe in Him to start with. There's no doubt in my mind that once Rahab declared her faith in Yahweh that her actions from then on were based on His leading. My reading of this passage doesn't present any conflict at all about whether Rahab was honored by God for lying or whether He disapproved of it. She was simply doing the Will of God in assisting the spies that God, through Joshua, had sent in the first place.

 

Is her lying justified in this case?

Of course she had to lie! To not do so would have greatly jeopardised the spies' God-given mission. God uses people all the time to fulfill His will on Earth. Rahab deceived the city authorities in order to assist the spies in their mission for the LORD.

 

Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

Where to I start to answer this? The comedy movie "Liar Liar" accurately and humorously shows us how awkward life can be if we tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth all the time. "Does this outfit make me look fat?" the wife asks. What's the right answer here? Tell her: Yes . . and you're in for it. Tell her: No . . and you ease her mind. Does she indeed look fat? Women often have the idea that they're fat when they're actually not. And even if they are, their husbands love them anyway and don't want to offend them over something that can't be changed at the present moment anyway. So go ahead and say: No . . to keep the peace.

The ninth commandment is actually a commandment not to bear false witness against our neighbor. As usual in any religious writings, people want to add to it. I'm definitely not saying that we can lie our guts out all the time as long as we don't bear false witness against anyone. . . . But consider this: Paul tells us in Romans 12:18 . . If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. If that means withholding the truth when it could hurt someone or even telling an untruth to keep the peace, then there's not really an issue here. Actually, people who blurt out the truth in conversations with no regard for the feelings of those present in the conversation are considered in today's society to have mental health issues! Aspergers Syndrome, for one. 

Suppose someone phones you and tells you that a person you know has given your name as a reference when applying for a job. You know some things about the person in question that may be detrimental to him/her if you tell the prospective employer about them. What do you do here? Tell the truth and kill off the person's chance of getting the job? Don't mention them and instead say that you've found the person to be reliable? Nobody's perfect, and the things that irritated you about the person may not be irritating to the new employer. Me? When I've been in that exact situation I always speak favorably about the job applicant. I always give them the benefit of the doubt. There has only ever been one man whom I'd never recommend to anyone. That's in the field in which I used to work. These days in the music industry, if anyone asks me to recommend a good agent I tell them . . absolutely truthfully  . . that there aren't any good ones! The best I can do is mention some that aren't as bad as most and caution the buyer to beware.

I believe the final barometer should be our conscience when it comes to the things we say to and about people. I reckon the best way to go is this: If you can't say something good about someone, don't say anything. Keep negative things under your hat. That way you're not bearing false witness against anyone. As for telling only the truth at all times . . let me know how that's working our for you. Our mission, which overrides everything in life, is to win people to God's Kingdom. A quiet answer turns away wrath. It also shows you to be a peaceful person. You're far more likely to gain people's confidence if you're exhibiting the peace that comes from God.

[Helen Williams]

God want us to tell the truth. There are times when people will be hurt if the truth is told. What do we do? So I will say, "If at all possible tell the truth."

[hanks]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) 
Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? 
Is her lying justified in this case? 
Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie? 
No God does not honour Rahab for lying.
However, under the circumstances, once she put her trust in our Lord, I don’t think she had any other alternative. 
So, I think her lying was justified in this case.
We know that lying is a sin and is displeasing to God. 
Perhaps the only time that lying might be permissible is in times of war, or if a lie will prevent a terrible deed of evil.
 

[Ganti Vivek]

Q4.   Deceit

Our Lord God is all Holy and no lie sin in any form is acceptable before him, here one should not take this particular incident as a pretext and keep lying. Rahab's lying, God is not honoring but the faith in the  Israeli's God by recognizing His as real God by her before her own Baal Gods. Because she had seen and heard how Yahweh is doing miracles towards Israeli's and she had faith towards God that he will deifnitely save her and her family members from death physically but her faith in real God has given her eternal life. So to deceive the evil lies may be accepted by God which lead to the eternity as in this case.

There are times when God's choosen people have lied like Abraham and issac regarding their wives as sisters,

and during wars

and to get away from terible evil acts which lead to sin.

[Susan B]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:44 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

 

God didn't commend Rahab for her lie but rather her faith and obedience. Lying is always a sin but telling the truth would have jeopardized her  mission. I don't be level lying is ever justified it is sinful but I think intent is important. Malicious lies are hurtful Rahas lie was meant to protect  God's chosen.

 

 

[Delivered]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men, and is her lying justified in this case?

Lying is a sin, however, it is important we understand -- what are the lies God is warning us about, they are "Falsehoods" spoken in order to cover up ones sin of wrong doing, they are lies that stem forth from a heart that intends to bring destruction or hatred to another, they are the kind of lies that cover up greed and dishonesty. 

The "fruit" stemming from the "Falsehood" spoken by Rahab brought forth that of kindness, it was an act of "love" - The greatest commandment is that of "LOVE," love covers a multiple of sins; Rahab was justified in that her motives were that of protection and not to bring harm.

 

Q5.  Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

There is never a time permissible to speak lies that cover up ones wrong doing or to bring hatred and harm to another.

I believe it is important we not look at God's laws as that of a Yoke, for it is a path to that of righteousness.  It is important we not bind His laws by that of "LEGALISM"

 

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Delivered
Too small to read

[May Flower]

This is a very good course within the lessons learned.

God didn't honor the lie, but the action through faith in assisting His people. As, I've stated God didn't honor nor justify the lie, because the lie is a sin...But...because of lives were at stake and to save those lives it was justified, she reordered her life for the cause of Belief, Faith and Trust. There is never a time to be permissible to lie, because it is a sin. I believe that we do error for a good cause and intentions great for a cause of life, etc. This is where and it's hard at times we must kneel and pray for direction, guidance, wisdom and trust Him in the leading of the Holy Spirit.

[lighthouse2014]

On 6/10/2016 at 2:44 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

 

God does not honor Rahab for lying to the kings men about the spies.

In this case her lying about the spies does save their lives and this could possibly be justified.

It may never be permissible to lye, for God is a God of truth, but do we lye to save life or do it for a greed of our own?  

[Gladys E.]

Yes, Rahab was honoured for lying to the king's men.

Her lying was justified because it saves the lives of just men.

Yes. With the wisdom of God to save just people.

[blezed]

(Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

No, God does not honor Rahab for lying to the king's men.  Her lying is justified because it saved the lives of the spies.  It might be permissible to lie during time of war or any time that one's life may be in danger.  We should confess to God our sin of lying and ask for forgiveness.

[Stanley Tavaziva]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

Rahab was commended for her faith in God. Her lie is not mentioned. Several explanations have been offered: (1) God forgave Rahab’s lie because of her faith; (2) Rahab was simply deceiving the enemy, a normal and acceptable practice in wartime; (3) because Rahab was not a Jew, she could not be held responsible for keeping the moral standards set forth in God’s law; (4) Rahab broke a lesser principle—telling the truth—to uphold a higher principle—protecting God’s people.
There may have been another way to save the lives of the Israelite spies. But under the pressure of the moment, Rahab had to make a choice. Most of us will face dilemmas at one time or another. We may feel that there is no perfect solution to our problem. Fortunately, God does not demand that our judgment be perfect in all situations. He simply asks us to put our trust in him and to do the best we know how. Rahab did that and was commended for her faith. We should ask God for forgiveness

 

[Debra Grant]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? 

Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be 

permissible to lie?

1.No, she is commended for helping the spies.

2.No

3.It should not be.

[Robyn G.]

No, God honors Rehab for her faithfulness in Him, not for lying.

Justification is a human concept.  God has clear black and white, we make the greys.  Lying is wrong and a sin no matter the reasoning and thus not justifiable. 

I believe there are times with our limited knowledge we feel it's permissible to lie, but God never gives us permission to lie.  We do live in a world of sin and to be honest and love one another is the outcast way rather than the norm.  It goes back to people saying there are degrees of things such as lying or love, I don't believe this, as while we don't see it (mostly because we don't' want to) God gave us the examples already we are to love unconditionally and without hesitation and we speak the truth.  Just as God sees a sin as a sin, a lie is a lie--your motive determines why, yet the truth remains when you lie you sin.

[PrayingMan]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

I believe God looks on the heart.  Rahab's heart was pure in her lie as she was protecting God's people.  If it is a selfish lie for one's own benefit, it is wrong.  But if it protects a greater evil, than it may be justified.  Dr, Wilson wisely added that we can also pray for divine wisdom to help us know how to respond without lying when we are in those situations.  I think in all situations, we need to pray and seek God's wisdom in how to proceed.  Rahab was not commended for lying, but neither was she condemned or even chastised.  Not only Rahab deceived the soldiers, but the spies also deceived those who were looking for them as they were hiding deceiving the soldiers into thinking there were no spies in Rahab's house.  The whole underlying purpose of spying is deceit, sneaking around and pretending.

[charisbarak]

God honored her act to keep the spies safe.  He did not honor her lie.

He saw her heart.  Perhaps during war times it is ok or if it is against God's Word.

[Haar Garba]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) DoesIGod honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

No, God does not honour Rahab  for lying.

No.

I do not think there is a time it might be justifiable to lie

 

[Anstey Jeremiah]

Our finite mind looks at what Rahab did as lying, but Jesus Christ said that no one who does a good work in my name will be able to speak evil of me afterwards. Rahab did a good work in the Lords name, then she is " for us not against us". We must also bear in mind that the iniquity of the Armorites was complete, they stood condemned . Rahab had no other way of getting in the presence of God to acknowledge her repentance.

[Anstey Jeremiah]

Rahab should not be considered "a fallen woman" especially since prostitution then may not have been as it is now and we asked to consider this. The fact that she cared that much for her family could mean that there may have been no disapproval of what she did, considering what god the people of Jericho served.