Q4. Deceit

[JSF]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

We live in a world of sin and it will never get better until we are with Jesus in paradise.   When Pastor Wilson says life is messy, that is so true.   There are so many instances of the absence of "black and white".   Who knows what God would have done if Rahab had told the truth?   He would have fulfilled His plan regardless.  But he brings good even of our muddling around because He is gracious that way.  I do think motive figures largely in cases like this.

[aliya721]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:44 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6) Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men? Is her lying justified in this case? Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

 

God doesn't honor her for lying to the king's men. He honors her for assisting the spies in doing His work. Each action was on the side of the coin. She simply decided she would do what was right in the Lord's eyes, despite what it looked like to us.

[Paula Price]

I believe God honors Rehab for her faith in Him and in her confession in believing Him to be the real and living God. It is in this instance that she is forgiven of sin and is saved from being destroyed with the city. Our focus should be on the reason she is willing to hide the spies, because she believes in their living God and has fear of Him and that fear is deeper than any fear she has for her government and the soldiers.  She fears Yahweh more than any punishment she would receive from hiding them from the king. She has stated this to the spies, that they had heard of how their God dried up the Red Sea for his people to escape and all the other miracles that were done. She and her people had great fear of their God and did not want to fight against Him!!!!  She recognizes Yahweh and calls Him by His name as being the powerful and the only one true and living God.  This is why God honors her and protects her.

[Irmela]

Q4. (Joshua 2:4-6)

Does God honor Rahab for lying to the king's men?

Is her lying justified in this case?

Is there ever a time it might be permissible to lie?

Rahab is honored for her faith. She hid the men from the king and his soldiers in the best way that she knew how to at that time. It was to send them on a wild goose trail.  I think when it is difficult to give a truthful answer it is best to ask God for wisdom how the question is to be answered in a way not to put people into danger.

[Krissi]

Lying is permitted if we must be motivated to further His kingdom through our lies. This is a slippery slope, I know, for once one lie is permitted, the door is cracked for others.

Some of us may work in professions that are predicated on lies, deception and creating an untrue impression. Most lawyers lie habitually, for example. Most people who work for advertising agencies lie about their product or service, or deceive people into desiring something they don’t need. Intelligence agencies lie as a matter of course. Speechwriters and politicians lie all the time. It's part of their job description!

The line between lying and persuasion is thin.

There are lying occupations. One of the intelligence agencies in my country has three or four hundred (!) professional propagandists. They know the truth but lie anyway, not only to the people in foreign countries they’re trying to bamboozle, but to us, the citizens of their own county. Bill Clinton famously spoke of lying as “misspeaking” as if it his lies were accidental. He said his lies were justified, “It’s just sex …”. In a day of AI and the ability to “tailor” information, the ability to create photographs that are all-but-real, or text that is false but seems true … is this lying wrong? I would think so. But it’s done all the time. Increasingly so.

Most importantly, how do we protect ourselves from lies? We’re surrounded by media falsehoods coerced by the government. These are deceptions. Outright lies. We have no protection unless we ask the Lord for discernment and shielding. We use our minds to figure out what’s true and untrue, but often it isn’t enough without Him. We must pray for His protection.

Rahab’s lies furthered the kingdom by continuing the line of Christ. She aided the Israelites by helping them do the mission God had assigned them to do. She may not have known this, so may have instinctually lied to the government bureaucrats who knocked at her door because she knew what sort of people they were and the evil power they represented. Still, yes, I think her lies were justified in this case.

I don’t think there is a pattern we are to follow, but Pastor Ralph's questions give me pause because lying to people who hate us and want to harm us may be increasingly necessary. Would I lie to live another day? Would I lie to protect my sons from persecution and harassment? If so, where must my lies stop? When do I tell the truth and let God handle the consequences? Would I deny my faith? 

We cannot claim that we only lie to “bad” people for we cannot make that determination. We are not Muslims with the concept of Taqiyya which allows them to lie, deceive and harm non-Muslims to protect/further themselves. This is vile and I can’t imagine it is God’s will for Christians to act in such a manner.

Maybe we should flip the script and say to ourselves, when MUST we tell the truth?  

1.     We must never lie to God – He does not lie to us. God never lies. We cannot lie about God either. IN the NIV the verb in the 3rd commandment is translated “misuse.”

2.     Also, in the commandments God commands us to not give false testimony against our neighbors.

3.     Perhaps we should tell the truth under oath, though, again, President Clinton infamously lied under oath, was impeached, and then everyone carried on as if nothing happened. When the judicial system is that corrupted, are we obligated to participate truthfully in it? We must, therefore, tell the truth to the government if the government is honorably inclined. We must be savvy with the truth when swimming in a sea of lies.

4.     I would think we must truth-tell to those we love and should trust – our spouses and families and close Christian friends. But even this has limitations. 

5.     We shouldn’t engage in gratuitous lies – no “white lies” – but lie only in situations that are extreme exceptions to the rule of truthfulness. If we lie, we should do so for a good reason, prayerfully and submitted to God. It may not be wrong to lie to build someone else up and, perhaps, to save our lives.

As I type answers to these questions, I realize that lying is far more of a grey area than I had previously realized. This is troubling, to say the least. Increasingly we will be put in situations that makes truth-telling detrimental. We’re in the post-Christian, post-truth West!  Lying is way of life to the United States government. Even Russian President Putin said that United States diplomats have lied to him so many times that he believes them to be “non-agreement capable.” IN other words, he can’t believe anything we say -- our treaties and promises are as slippery as water to him. (Think: Minsk 2.) Shunning, ignoring and asking for proof are consequences of lying. I don’t want to go down this path.