Q4. Monuments

[Pastor Ralph]

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

[Marie Koons]

Wow, what a tough question! But, from reading some of the other posts, I have to say that I agree with what everyone else is saying!

[ducminh]

Joshua instructed the 12 tribes of Israelites to nominated 12 representatives to carry the stones taken from the Jordan to build a commemoration monument of God’s work in helping them entering the Promised Land.  This is an act of gratitude towards God and for the memory of many future generations.  Joshua had done the right thing to remind the children of Israel that they should never forget the goodness of their God.

The Christian world has built many memorial monuments but mostly to show off its pride and the glory of their idols.  This is a Babylonian-Christian empire, it is not the church of God of the Bible.  Christ has named it Babylon the Great in the book of Revelation, chapter 17.

Rev 17:5  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Christ has also called it the Mother of Harlots, this means there is a main church and from her many other churches were born.  This prophecy of the Bible has been fulfilled; the Roman Church has extended its empire to the entire world of the earth. She has spread the Gospel but in the meantime, she also leads astray the children of the earth into idolatry.

The book of Revelation has also predicted the judgement of that rebellious empire:

Rev 18:2  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Christ has given a warning to the sensible people who are genuinely faithful to God:

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Since the last destruction of the temple of Jerusalem, and God has scattered the children of Israel into the four corners of the earth.  There is not one memorial monument that was built in commemoration of the goodness of God.  The entire human world has gone into perdition and is now awaiting the judgement of God and the return of Christ to restore the Kingdom of God with the remnant children of Israel who have been faithful to God in keeping his commandments and his law.

Amo 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Amo 9:10  All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

Amo 9:11  In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Amo 9:12  That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

 

Eze 44:23  And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Eze 44:24  And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

 

Rev 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

And the Kingdom of God will be restored with the 12 tribes of Israel:

Rev 21:12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel

[Commissioned]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:48 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

 

Joshua had men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument to represent each of the tribes as they erected a memorial to thank God and to establish for future generations what God had done for His people.  As future generations saw the erected stones they reflected on the blessings of God upon the Israelites.  Faith monuments in our day should point the observers to God and His mighty works.  The danger is to have memorials erected and they take the place of the one to be worshiped. My church does not have any elaborate monuments that can be considered a rival of God's present day working.

[van]

Joshua had one man from each tribe to stack boulders as a memorial that God dried up the Jordan river so their ancestors could cross. The effect on the future generation is that the memorial was done by all generations. Today, we don't use boulders as a memorial, we have communion in order that we don't forget Jesus Christ died for us. Memorials are a part of our faith and if your heart is not clean you will be in danger of going to hell. 
 

[hanks]

Q4. (Joshua 4) 
Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? 
What was the effect of this on future generations? 
What is the value of faith monuments in our day? 
What is the danger? 
Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God's present working? 
Why? 
It was important that the Israelites never forget this great miracle, and at the same time, to show that each of the twelve tribes participated in this memorial. 
Both the crossing of the Jordan as well as the Red Sea, would act as tokens of God’s mercy to future generations of Israel.
They are to remember that, in His grace, the Lord has helped them and is therefore to be remembered in praise.
In Psalm 111:4 we read: “He has caused His wonders to be remembered; the LORD is gracious and compassionate.”
In our day faith monuments can act as an encouragement to our faith. 
The Lord’s Supper is such a memorial, and a reminder of our salvation as a result of His sacrifice.  
The danger is idolatry. 
No. No monuments to the past at all. 
 

[Ganti Vivek]

Here Joshua told tribes to put 12 memorial stone representing all the twelve tribes of Israel, signifying the miracle God has performed in their lives that is corssing over  river Jordan, so that the later generations when they see this they should glorify God work in their lives.

In present days monuments and memorial stones have become self praise and glorification for the people themselves and not to God, like the list of doners names on the stone outside the newly constructed

Church. In this regard when peter and other disciples were marveling about the church build during king Herods time with Jesus, " Look at these stones look at this temple how marvelously it is built " then Jesus said you are marveling these structures built by stones, there comes a day when no stone will stay one on top of the other ( it will fall ) but the son of God will build it in three days. see Mark 13:2

we are forgetting to glorify God but we are glorifying the constructions build by men and becoming idolaters which God hates according to the first commandment he has given us.

So monuments of the past should strengthen out faith but not become idols for us ignoring God.

 

[Eilen]

1. Joshua ordered the stacking of the river boulders as a monument so that the Israelites would remember where their redemption started.  This was the place where they began a new life and that it was the Lord who made it possible for them to cross the Jordan River safely despite being surrounded by hostile kingdoms.  

2. Future generations would be able to look back and thank God for the opportunity of their freedom and the end of their ancestors’ 40 years of wandering in the desert.

3.  Faith monuments remind us of the faith and struggle of our ancestors.  It reminds us of the legacy of what and how those before us fought for. 

4. One danger is making it an idol and completely forgetting or changing its symbolism.

5. My Church does not have a building.  We are a new church and share a building with a lodge. The most important monument I would like to see in my church when we get one is that of Jesus on the Cross which reminds us of what he went through for the redemption of our sins and that only by faith can we get into the Kingdom of God.

[JanMary]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:48 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

 

Q4 (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God's present working? Why?

A. The boulders were to be a representation for all of Israel...not just a segment here and there, so one boulder for each of the 12 tribes. This was to be a reminder to future generations who might ask "Why are these stones piled up?" And they would then be told of the miraculous deliverance the Lord provided for them to cross over into the promised land on dry ground, much like their parents had crossed over the Red Sea coming out of Egypt. They would be told that the Priests (representing God's presence) stood in the middle of the river, the deepest part, and held the Ark of the Covenant on their shoulders while every man, woman and child passed before it and with His blessing, safely to the other river bank and the promised land.

B. The effect of the "Cairn" (monumental pile of stones to memorialize a work of God in that place) was to keep the story alive, so they would always know that they were led there by the Lord, and that this is the land given to them through the covenant God cut with Abraham, and for all future generations. There was to be no doubt about the privileged place they occupied, and that they didn't achieve this gift on their own accord but were led there by the Lord through Joshua's leadership and God's miraculous intervention.

C. Monuments cause those who see them to reflect  upon God and what He accomplished on our behalf, even though some may not have been born when it was erected, or when the  work of God was accomplished which precipitated it's being erected.

D. The danger is that monuments may become objects of worship which belongs only to the Lord.(Much like some people worship or look to the stars for guidance, rather than to the God who created the stars!)

E. No. The buildings being built as they were, are monuments to His faithfulness against many odds. He alone is worshipped and glorified.

 

   

[blezed]

(Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

The monuments were stack as a memorial.  This memorial would be a reminder for future generations of the significance of God's past dealings with his people. The value of faith monuments in our day is a reminder of God's goodness and why we should give thanks unto him.  The danger can be that we forget that the monuments are just to remind us of things God has done to beginning to honoring the monument.  My church does not have any physical monuments but we have the Lord's Supper as a reminder of Jesus death, burial and resurrection for us.

[Clarence]

Q 4 (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

God wanted the memorial to remind them of what he had done for them. He is faithful to not only the people present at the time but also to future generations.

[Susan B]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:48 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

 

Joshua had his men erect a memorial as a testament to what God had done. This time of building also gave the people a chance to stop, recollect and reflect what God had done. N

It also served a reminder of God's faithfulness. As they entered into their own unknown territory, physical, mental or spiritual,  God will be faithful.

[lighthouse2014]

On 6/10/2016 at 2:48 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

 

Joshua had men from each of the 12 tribes to gather a large stone (bolder) and place them one upon another to represent a memorial as a witness for generations to come that would remind them that at this place the Lord had stopped the Jordan so the Israelite's could cross over it and enter the promised land.

The effect of this memorial was to remind the future generations as to what the Lord had done for the Israelites in crossing the Jordan river.

Faith monuments to this day are to remind us of the miracles the Lord had performed in past generations.

The dangers of these monuments are that some people begin to worship the monument instead of what it was supposed to represent.

Our church has no monuments to the past that would indicate God's past working.

Our congregation relies on the word of God in the bible instead of erecting monuments, which could later be mistaken for an object of faith. 

[Gladys E.]

The men stack river boulders as a remembrance to tell generations to come what God did for them.

Faith monument today helps us to know what happens in the past. There is also a danger of following what is wrong. 

Our church building has no monument. 

[Debra Grant]

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack

 river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on

future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day?

 What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments

to the past than indications of God's present working? Why?

1. They were stacked in an impressive pile at Gilgal "to be a memorial

 to the people of Israel forever" (4:7).
"Israel crossed the Jordan on dry ground. For the Lord your God dried

up the Jordan before you until you had crossed over" (4:22-23).

 

2. Memorials give us -- and future generations -- points of reference, so

we don't forget the significance of God's past dealings with us. Nor

are these memorials always set in stone. After the Exodus, God instructs

the people to remember their deliverance out of Egypt through the Passover

feast.

3. Memorials are part of our faith because they produce the thankfulness so necessary to true faith.

4. "Count your blessings, name them one by one,
Count your blessings, see what God hath done.

5. Yes, pictures and plaques.

6. However, memorials move beyond the role of prompting remembrance

into veneration, in and of themselves.

 

[PrayingMan]

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God’s present working? Why?

The boulders were to be a memorial in order to tell other generations what God had done in that place.  They would know that God did mighty works and the people could put their trust in Him.  It reminds us of what happened there.  Sometimes it is a sad thing, but the memorials we bring before the Lord are memorials to remember what God has done for us.  One of those memorials is the Lord's Supper reminding us of what Jesus did for us.  Memorials of the past are not so much a problem here.   The church has done well not to make them icons.

[Robyn G.]

Joshua had one stone per tribe stacked as a remembrance to the miracle they had just taken part in.

The effect is that future generations had a tangible, visual remembrance of God's grace and power.  They didn't just have to hear stories, they could see and touch the memorial. 

The value of faith monument, or any monument, is the remembrance of what it stands form the memory, life or event.  We can tend to forget the important events that have led to where we are without a reminder.  We get very caught up in the moment.

The danger lies in degrading the memory of the event or life into an idolatry of the monument itself or person and not the beliefs which made it/them.

My church doesn't but we only really have a cross.  We have a newer church, we just built in recent years and with God's blessing have to keep expanding.  Personally, I find that too many items, do as they do in my house and life, clutter and junk my life.  We got to keep focus and simplify.  It's all about God.

[charisbarak]

Each of the twelve tribes took part in this remembrance.  God wanted them to remember what He had done for them.

See and remember.  Often they are made to be idols--to be worshipped instead of God.

Not that I can see....

[Haar Garba]

Q4. (Joshua 4) Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument? What was the effect of this on future generations? What is the value of faith monuments in our day? What is the danger? Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God's present working? Why?
 

To have in place a reminder for the other generation to come, to know of God's miraculous intervention towards delivering the promised land to His children.

A reminder of God's past goodness and salvation.

The danger is that they can become idols to be worshiped.

No

 

[Anstey Jeremiah]

I wrote recently, -What is it with the book of Joshua and stone "monuments"?
Jos 4:9 - stones in the middle of the Jordan
Jos 4:20 - stones from the middle of the Jordan set up at Gilgal
Jos 7:24,25 - stones over Achan
Jos 8:29 - stones over the king of Ai
Jos 8:32 - stone altar with law inscribed, at Mt Ebal
Jos 10:18 - stones over the cave of the five Amorites kings
Jos 24:26 - stone witness against the Israelites."-

basically are reminders of what God has done for man, in this case forgetful Israel. Monuments also remind us of the consequences of our actions and what not to do. In the case of Israel, future generations get to realize that Israel was meant to be a nation of twelve tribes not an association of two and ten. Jehoshaphat may have had this in mind in His alliance with Ahab. 

How quickly we forget the good God has done for us, how quickly we forget to praise and extol His worthy and glorious name, something that would cause others to seek and glorify Him. 

Our faith monument today is the Lords Supper. It gives us the opportunity to celebrate our salvation and Honour Christ for redeeming us, and the heavy ransom He had to pay. Of course there's the danger that some think that they can earn Gods grace before they partake of it, meaning if they think that they did bad they have to abstain from taking it. Then there are those who as soon as they take it, they leave the worship hall, not bothering to fellowship with the rest of the saints. Then there are those who take it regardless of the life they live, meaning ritually, it has no real significance for them.

[Paula Price]

Let us not loose the focus on the lesson here.  It is all bout GOD and what he can do!!! Joshua is following the commandments of God.  He is doing everything that God is commanding him to do.  The stones from the Jordan are to be a testimony of the power of God. How else could they have gotten there from the bottom of the Jordan River??? In that day and time??????? There were no other stones such as those from the bottom of the river sitting around on shore!!!!!!!  Generations will view them and ask how they got there.!! They shall not be moved.  God said so!!!!!!!! We are not talking about pebbles or bricks that a man can easily lift!!!!  These stones are proof of the power of living God!!!!!  He gave the strength to remove them from the bottom of the river before he return the water to flow again..!!!   It is important to pass on our history to the next generation.  Our children today do not understand the struggles we went through because there is no history of it and it is not being told to them.  We want things to be better for them than they were for us so we share our struggle, just our triumphs over overcoming.  God wants us to remember who he is and what he has done and what he will continue to do for his children who are faithful and obedient.  It is not about us. It is all about God!!!!  He uses man to show his power, how else would we believe it???? We have to see the physical with our eyes!!! God made us so he knows that!..  

[Irmela]

Q4. (Joshua 4)

Why did Joshua have men from each tribe stack river boulders for a monument?

What was the effect of this on future generations?

What is the value of faith monuments in our day?

What is the danger?

Does your church building have more monuments to the past than indications of God's present working? Why?

The fact that a man from each tribe took the river boulders for a monument suggested unity.  It was not all just from one tribe. All the tribes were involved.  All of them came in to the Promised Land.

Future generations would ask about the meaning of the stones. They would  be reminded of God's goodness and faithfulness to their forefathers, whom God led out of slavery from Egypt, through the desert and finally into  Canaan, the Promised Land. The stones would remind them that the waters of the Jordan dried up before the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord.  Secondly they would remind them that the Children of Israel came over on dry land.  Another thing is that it can be a reminder of what God had done for the previous generation , viz., dried up the Red Sea. The Hand of the Lord indeed is Mighty. Another effect that the memorial  was to have, was that the Israelites were to fear or revere the Lord forever. This was not kept as a secret but the nations around all got to know what the Lord had done for His people. So they too feared the Lord, God of Israel.

In our day these faith monuments should remind us of God's faithfulness and His workings in the past or present as well. The danger is that the eyes of the people eventually get taken off the Miracle Worker, God Himself and is placed on the object instead and it becomes an idol.  

The monuments should serve as a reminder as a voice for the generations to come, not as objects of worship.

Something interesting about the boulders.  Previous to being transferred, they lay buried beneath the waters of the Jordan, representing those dead in trespasses and sins. When the Ark (which typifies Christ, Who is the Light of the world) was brought into the Jordan, they were discovered or exposed.  They were then taken out of that place and carried to Gilgal (the place of deliverance).  A glimpse of the GRACE of GOD that brings SALVATION.