Q4. Associating with Unbelievers

[Pastor Ralph]

Q4. (Joshua 23:7) What was Jesus’ example of “associating” with sinners? Who were the “buddies” with whom he spent most of his time? How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them? What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

[charisbarak]

Jesus' example of associating with sinners was to love them, care for them and draw them to Himself.

His real "buddies" were the disciples--ones who already related to Jesus and had decided to follow Him.

Part of what we want to do is to have relationships with unbelievers to share with them about Jesus and so they can see a difference in our lives.  Those we spend the most time with would be fellow Christians.

Having no friendship with non-Christians takes away our chance to share with them and draw them to Jesus.  They still need to hear the gospel and we've be commanded to share the gospel!!

[ducminh]

Christians are very much relaxing in living in a multicultural society because they do not observe the first four commandments of God (especially the Roman Catholic Church):

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.

2. You shall not make idols.

3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

For thousands of years Christians have already adopted pagan traditions starting from the Roman Catholic Church.  So the last step for Christian Churches to do in the period of End Time, is to accept and recognise all pagan gods and their beliefs.  They have organised the ecumenical movement just for that purpose.

I cannot see any difficulty for Christians to amalgamate themselves with other pagan followers.

Loving sinners must not be used as a reason for loving pagan gods and their ways.

False Christian teachers and ministers often use the theme “Loving Sinners” as a good reason to defend their spiritual fornication.  They can convince people of the world but they cannot change God’s curse and condemnation to those who deceive the ignorant people.

Rev 19:20  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[van]

Jesus associated with them but they came in Jesus world, Holy and righteous. These people were not His buddies, his Disciples were his buddies because that's who he spent his time with. we balance our lives with nonbelievers by walking righteous like Jesus did. We are not to join in with with their ungodly living. Living our life for God should show through you.
 

[Gladys E.]

Jesus' example of associating with sinners is to draw them to believe in Him and so become children of God.

Jesus' buddies were His disciples. 

We can be friends with unbelievers and not become lije them by being an example to them, and loving lead them in the right way and as time goes on they would receive Christ as their Saviour.

If we have no friendship with unbelievers, most would be lost forever, and even sone of us would nit have becone Christians.

[JanMary]

 

Lesson 8: Joshua 23:7 

Q4: What was Jesus' example of associating with sinners?

Jesus treated sinners with dignity, respect and love. Sinners were attracted to Him because of His kindness and sincere concern for them. He went to their homes....even invited Himself to some, like Zacchaeus'. He dignified and honored women, even prostitutes, as equal to men in significance. He ate with sinners. He invited them to follow Him. He answered their questions, all the while revealing His love for them.

Who were the buddies with whom He spent most of His time?

Most of His time was spent with His disciples, both men and women.

How can we balance our lives while enjoying friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them?

Like Jesus, love them, appreciate who they are as people, accept them (versus preaching at them or trying to force them to become believers). Spend the most time with those friends who know and love Jesus, to be replenished and "filled" in order to be able to "give" when with non-Christian friends. Pray for them. If appropriate, let them know you pray for them when they have needs or offer to pray with them. (I've only had one person say "no thank you" when I offered to pray with them)

"Missionary dating" is a dangerous idea....for a believer to date a non believer in the hope of them one day becoming a believer...We are warned in scripture against being "unequally yoked".  The same goes for going into business with a non believer, which is also being unequally yoked.

What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

Having no non-Christian friends results in having no influence for Christ in those around us. I became a believer because of a Christian woman who befriended me, who didn't preach at me, but let me know she was a Christian. (I thought I was a Christian too because I'd grown up in church). When I had a car accident and was in bed, she came and brought meals to my family. Eventually she invited me to join her in a Bible Study group, which is where I discovered I knew about Jesus, but didn't know Him as Savior and Lord, and committed my life to Him. She told me later when I shared that I had become a believer, that she had been praying for me every day to come to know Jesus.

 

[haar]

Q4. (Joshua 23:7)

What was Jesus' example of "associating" with sinners?

He interacted with them and influenced them but did not allow them to influence him.

Who were the "buddies" with whom he spent most of his time?

His disciples.

How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them?

By showing them love and allow the relationship to transform them while refusing to be be conformed with their way of life

What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

We will loose the opportunity to minister to them.

 

[blezed]

(Joshua 23:7) What was Jesus’ example of “associating” with sinners? Who were the “buddies” with whom he spent most of his time? How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them? What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

Jesus example of "associating" with sinners was when he went to the parties of the prostitutes and tax collectors. These people were considered outcasts of society but he loved them too.  Jesus "buddies" were his disciples.    We can balance our lives with non-Christians and not become like them by remembering that we are in the world, but not of it.  We are to let our light shine when we are among them.  Seek every opportunity to minister to them.  If we only associated ourselves with Christians, how can non-Christians be saved?  

[PrayingMan]

Q4. (Joshua 23:7) What was Jesus’ example of “associating” with sinners? Who were the “buddies” with whom he spent most of his time? How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them? What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

Christians are not some fortress island isolated from the heathen world. We live among non-Christians.  Jesus said we are in the world, but we are not to be of the world. We are to be salt and light and not let the world to influence or compromise us.  It is not wrong to hang out with sinners, but it is with intentionality to share Christ with them.  Therefore, we should not associate with people who will lead us into temptation in weak areas of our lives.  When we are friends with other non-believers, we can let them see Christ in us in how we live as well as how we share Christ.

[Eilen]

Jesus’ association with sinners was eating and speaking to them.  They were not his buddies.  He ate with publican and sinners.  Jesus came into contact with sinners so that he could reach out to them, change them and save their souls.  He wanted to share the news about His Father’s heavenly Kingdom.

Jesus’ buddies were his disciples.

Associating with non-Christians may seem to indicate a person’s wrong intentions, but it can also mean that the person is going where God sent him/her to sow the seeds of redemption to the non-Christian.  Having a non-Christian as a friend does not mean that we have to join them in their lifestyle and beliefs.  Such an association can be for non-Christians to see Christ in the Christian.  The main focus of such a relationship is to help the non-Christian to discover Christ by the way a Christian lives.

The tragic effect is how can one spread the word of God to the non-Christian if there is no association with them.  There must be communication to open them up to God’s heavenly Kingdom.  Association may help them to change their lifestyle and to emulate that of a Christian.

[hanks]

Q4. (Joshua 23:7) 
What was Jesus' example of "associating" with sinners? 
Who were the "buddies" with whom He spent most of His time? 
How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them? 
What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians? 
Like Jesus, we should not separate ourselves from any contact with unbelievers. 
We are definitely more comfortable associating with our Christians “buddies” – almost like being in a comfort zone. 
As long as we are in the world, we cannot live a life of complete isolation from sinners.
We will be mixing with all types; besides we have no way of knowing their standing before the Lord.
So we do not shun them but when we do mix with them it is an opportunity to show them the love of Jesus.
We must make sure we do not do anything that these people might interpret as condoning their sin. 
However, we live in an extremely dark world and we are to most cautious in getting involved in any known immoral people. This includes in not going into partnership with one who does not know the Lord.
 

[Ganti Vivek]

Jesus example of associating with sinners is that His very purpose of coming as son of man is to bring every soul to salvation by spreading the good news, so more than the righteous persons He befriended with the sinners, He visited them to bring change.

His real buddies are His disciples whom He trained to be His ambassadors to spread the good news of gospel, and today who ever does that is His buddie.

Our association with nonbelievers should be to spread the gospel to them and bring them to salvation but not we following their pagan Gods.

The effect of not having friendship with non christian will have very drastic effect on the spread of good news of eternal kingdom, in fact because the early missionaries have made friendship with the local people and spread the word of God by which today most of us are saved including me this way, through my parents.

[lighthouse2014]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:07 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Joshua 23:7) What was Jesus’ example of “associating” with sinners? Who were the “buddies” with whom he spent most of his time? How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them? What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

 

Jesus loved sinners but not their sins. He would associate with them publically only to give them the word of God. He would only stay with those who had been chosen by him to be his disciples and those who believed in him.

As above Jesus only lived with those who believed in him and were his disciples.

We live in the world along with non believers, however, we must not live with them or compromise and become like them.

To have no friendship with non believers is impossible unless we become hermits. We must live and witness to non believers or how else will they ever come to know the Lord as their Savior.  

[Stanley Tavaziva]

Q4. (Joshua 23:7) What was Jesus' example of "associating" with sinners? Who were the "buddies" with whom he spent most of his time? How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them? What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

“Be faithful to the LORD your God.” Joshua had been a living example of those words, and he wanted that to be his legacy. For what do you want to be remembered, and what do you want to pass on to your children and associates? You can leave them nothing better than the admonition to hold on to God and to the memory of a person who did.

Jesus loved sinners but not their sins. He would associate with them publically only to give them the word of God. He would only stay with those who had been chosen by him to be his disciples and those who believed in him.

[Commissioned]

On 6/10/2016 at 4:07 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

What was Jesus’ example of “associating” with sinners? Who were the “buddies” with whom he spent most of his time? How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them? What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

Jesus’ example of “associating” with sinners was to bring the worse of sinners, the outcast of society to an understanding of the love of God and the way to eternal life. He influenced them to receive the life He offered.

Jesus' “buddies” with whom he spent most of his time were the Apostles whom He taught and trained to continue the Ministry.

We can balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them by keeping the conversation and acts clean.  Every opportunity that is presented, share the love of God with them.

The strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians is not reaching out to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.  They are lost and if we don't reach them they will go to a Christ-less eternity. 

[Irmela]

Q4. (Joshua 23:7)

What was Jesus' example of "associating" with sinners?

Who were the "buddies" with whom He spent most of his time?

How can we balance our lives so we can enjoy friendship with non-Christians while not becoming like them?

What is the strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians?

Jesus did not shun the outcasts in society. In fact He even called Matthew, who was a tax-collector , to be His disciple. Matthew left that lifestyle behind.  Another one who was shunned by society, was, Zacchaeus.  Jesus went to Him and as a result his life was changed. He gave back what he had stolen, he righted what he had wronged. Jesus' lifestyle affected the sinner enough, to change his lifestyle.  Mary Magdalene was a faithful follower of Christ. She too had been living a dubious life before being influenced by Christ.  The demoniac who lived among the tombs, who went about naked, was found changed after meeting with Christ, he was found clothed and in his right mind.  

Much of Jesus' time was spent with His apostles and disciples and those who were following Him or who came out to hear Him, who were learning from Him, how to live etc.

We need to make sure that wherever we are we always are dressed in the armour prepared for us.  Always, no matter the place, remember Christ is right there beside you, never loose sight of this. 

If we do not mix with non-Christians, how will we ever reach them.

[Krissi]

Many years ago I visited a Christian nursing home somewhere in New Jersey -- across the entrance portico was written in huge letters, “BE YE SEPARATE.” This organization hired only Christians as well as took, as patients, only Christians. This stuck in my mind because it seemed the most extreme example of separation I had known. From a distance, I had watched the Amish in Pennsylvania and Orthodox Jews in Crown Park, Brooklyn, but for some reason, the nursing home seemed more self-consciously exclusionary than that of other “cultural religionists.” I have thought much about this since.

I'm not sure I can well describe what follows because my thoughts are muddled and confused. To sum: I have found being a Christian extremely isolating. Fellowship has been an abstract idea not a lived reality. In spite of shared faith, I find little to talk about with other Christians. What separates us is our pasts, class, what we read, the sorts of interests we have and places/people we’ve seen or known, etc. Our frame of reference is simply different -- we refer to different things as analogies or examples. Even my speech, I’ve learned, sets me apart. So, I've pulled away, not only from secular society, but from Christian fellowship. 

If one’s secular past overlaps with one’s new faith identity, then becoming a Christian means switching to a new clique much like the old one except it is “religious." For all of us, a sense of belonging is cultural, not faith-driven. We can worship with people around the world without binding to them in any substantial manner. We share faith, but nothing else. We love them, but that love doesn't touch the ground because our life circles don't overlap. My relationship as a Christian with both Christians and seculars is siloed. I love talking to the guy that works in the garden center, but we talk only about plants. I talk to the librarian about books. To the washing machine repair guy about young babies and fixing things. I love talking to Christians, too, but our conversations are limited to abstract issues of faith. Perhaps, to a degree, this is how all of us associate with others. We silo our affections. We have many tiny, sometimes momentary, Christian relationships than never deepen.

What's different for some of us, however, is that becoming a Christian has meant that the tiny relationships which never deepen are all we'll ever have.

Deep relationships with secular people outside the faith are verboten to the Christian; unfortunately, these are the only people with whom I could potentially share thoughts and ideas. My faith is a huge barrier to THEM -- they hate(!) my faith: similarly, their secularism is a huge barrier to me -- I have separated. This includes my entire family and all past friends. 

The questions posed by Pastor Ralph invert reality as I've lived it. There is no "strategic effect of having no friendship with non-Christians," but rather the opposite, the sad probability that I will never have deep relationships with Christians! I'm far less worried about becoming "like" my secular friends than I am that this season of extreme isolation will never end, that I'll never meet a subset of Christians with whom I have enough in common to share a cup of tea and converse easily. 

True: Jesus associated with secular people, but his association was limited to people within a very cohesive culture to which he belonged. He was comfortable at the wine-less wedding, for example. That was "his crowd." Today's Christians who are in the middle of the crowd cannot see how they fit within a cohesive culture that overlaps substantially with secular culture. In other words, they feel comfortable among Christians because their secular life, if they had converted, wasn't very different. They watch the same sports on the tele as do their secular friends. They read the same books. Vote for the same candidates, or at least understand those who vote differently. Their kids go to the same schools. They shop in the same places. Etc. Etc.

They fit, that is, in the secular milieu in which their Christian culture is a subset much as Jesus fit in his secular milieu. The gap between and from secular society is thus bridgeable and understandable. Separation isn't a big deal because the church is more or less contiguous with secular, middle-middle class society. The church mimes secular society more than it sets itself apart. To me, the church looks just like any middle-middle class group except with Christian leanings, lingo and a few distinctly Christian behaviors. 

If the church was MORE set apart or separated from secular society, it would be a more congenial/understandable place for those of us who were not raised within the Western middle class -- we’d all be strangers in a strange land. Because the church is more or less culturally contiguous with secular, middle class society, it’s very difficult for some of us to find points of commonality. I feel I've separated ... to be alone. I've read that God puts some people He's going to use through the crucible of stillness and isolation, both from others and from Himself. Perhaps that's all this is.

In my dreams, I meet people from my background who are now Christian. We enjoy each other's company, marry each other, send our little ones to the same schools, quote from the same sources, hum the same musical phrases, interject familiar references ... with ease and a lack of self-consciousness. But this is just a dream. Not reality. It's a Christian dream.

 

--

I came back to erase this, but decided to let it stand. If it comes off as a primal whine, so be it. It's also an honest statement from someone who is committed but separated. I'm grateful for anonymity.