Pastor Ralph Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer's suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts "jars of clay" with "all-surpassing power"? What is the "treasure" that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of "believe in yourself"? If we manage, during our suffering, still to let our light shine, people will view our witnessing as the genuine article. It shows the world that despite our suffering we remain faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ. Paul contrasts a mere mortal person, jars of clay, with treasure, all-surpassing power, contained in the earthen vessel. The jars of clay are the frail human body, and the contrast between this and the all-surpassing power of God is obviously tremendous. This was done so that we can know the actual source of the power comes from God and not us. He commits the Word to weak human beings, ensuring that all praise and glory must go to the Creator and not the creature. The treasure is the Holy Spirit and absolute truth – His Word found in the Bible. It is not about us, but all about our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. We are to surrender all to Him, acknowledging Him in everything we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilen Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 A believer’s suffering does not make him stop spreading God’s words. As shown by Paul and others who were persecuted for Christ’s sake in the bible, unbelievers see the persecuted faith, love and understanding of God’s grace, glory and power as they continue to preach the Gospel. Paul feels that our weak bodies are empty vessels which contain treasures of the greatness of the power of God. It is there waiting for us to open our hearts inviting God in to show us his glory, power, love, mercy. The treasure that is contained within us is our being the children of God, made in his likeness. We are loved by Him, He sacrificed His Son so that we all might be saved and partake of His heavenly kingdom. He is omnipresent, omnipotent; all we have to do is allow Him to enter into our hearts and live by faith, keeping His laws. We often tell others to believe in themselves that they can accomplish what they wish. This serves as encouragement and support. Our lives however are in God’s hands. We do not accomplish anything on our own, whatever happens was designed by God. The course of our lives has been chartered out by God. He knows our every desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 On 12/16/2016 at 11:47 AM, Pastor Ralph said: )Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? A. As was true of Jesus as He endured ridicule, persecution, rejection, homelessness, beating, being spat upon, having his beard pulled from his face, scourging, the horrors and humiliation of being stripped naked and being crucified beside a public road with onlookers scorning and mocking Him, in front of his mother and John, and in the absence of other disciples who fled in shame and terror....with dignity, Kingliness, Holiness, forgiveness, intercession for those who instigated and carried out this form of death (though they were fulfilling perfectly God's plan to redeem any and "whosoever will come" to Him for salvation and forgiveness), the way we suffer can be a reflection of Him to those around us. (However, the opposite can be true if when we suffer we curse and blame others or blame God in our pain, or turn away from Him in anger). I learned during intense suffering, that tears and honesty with Him about our pain draws us closer to Him, and invites His comfort. This dignifies our suffering and enables us to reflect Him. B. I like the "picture" Paul "painted" with those phrases. Each of us is "a cracked pot" so to speak, and His "all surpassing power" and light shines through our brokenness and vulnerability. We are finite, weak, vulnerable and dying, while His majesty and infinite Power and glory resides in us and can be seen by those around us....the aroma which is the smell of death to the dying and the scent of life to those who are searching and open and whose hearts have been prepared by the Holy Spirit to receive Him. C. The treasure is HIM.....His Holy Spirit Who resides in our "portable tabernacles" hidden under our "skins" of fallen nature. The glory and power of Almighty God, ready to shine out whenever we yield to Him. D. To "believe in yourself" is to put ALL emphasis on the limits of strength, personality, will, talent, energy, drive of the individual. It is confidence in human insufficiency. (I didn't watch the academy awards, but when I saw pictures in the paper of some of the winners holding their "golden statue (or golden idol?) raised above their heads in victory, the reward for the act of pretending to be someone they are not, I read underneath of one picture "This demonstrates his sheer confidence in his abilities".....hmmmmmmm. He believes in himself, unfortunately unless he repents, that's all he will ever accomplish and his acting ability will not take him to Heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Witnessing to the world of unbelievers what they see is a weak and powerless person that has many natural problems. When we are exposed to struggle, stress, and pain, our inner self is exposed. People can see us for what we are. But as they listen to you witnessing about Christ all they see is Christ light in you witnessing about His grace and mercy, and how he gave His life for us. When they see the amazing Christ within -- his character, his power, his faith -- they are blown away. Paul called it a clay of jars there are several types of clay jars made and it is represented us he said "we are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed." (2 Corinthians 4:8-9). We have the power of Jesus Christ living within us! Our bodies (vessels) have the Spirit of Christ loved going within us, we live our lives for Christ and put ourselves last, whereas, New age will always put themselves first because they feel as though they are more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PADODD Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? If we manage, during our suffering, still let our light shine, people will view our witnessing as the genuine article. It shows the world that despite our suffering we remain faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ. Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? In the lesson, this is not about us, this is about pottery containers that is made from dirt and then molded by a skilled craftsmen that can be come durable. This also, let us know that the actual source of the power comes from God. Dirt is also, what God used to make man. Man becomes durable led by the Holy Spirit. What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? The Spirit of glory and the Holy Spirit of God. How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”?It is not about us, but all about our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. We are to surrender all to Him, acknowledging Him in everything we do. We often tell others to believe in themselves that they can accomplish what they wish. This serves as encouragement and support. Our lives however are in God’s hands. We do not accomplish anything on our own, whatever happens was designed by God. The course of our lives has been chartered out by God. He knows our every desire. Edited March 4, 2017 by PADODD added more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosegarden Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 On 12/16/2016 at 2:47 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? Because we show the glory of Christ when we respond with grace when persecuted or in suffering. To let us know that we are just jars of clay, easily broken. The treasure is inside. "But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us." (2 Corinthians 4:7) The Holy Spirit is the treasure inside of us. The world says, "believe in yourself" Our belief and trust is to be in God, not in ourselves. We are the earthen vessels, He is the power. He is the vine, we are the branches. We cannot bear fruit on our own, He is our source, We can do nothing on our own but can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Grant Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer's suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts "jars of clay" with "all-surpassing power"? What is the "treasure" that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of "believe in yourself"? 1. Paul explains to the church at Corinth the truth that God's glory is seen best when we are stressed and persecuted. The world see that we can make with the help of God. 2. We have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us." (2 Corinthians 4:7) It's not about us, the vessel, but the treasure inside. 3. Inside is a great treasure, the Spirit of glory and power, the Holy Spirit of God. 4. God is true and he is real. New Age is false and based on man and idols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Q. Why does a believer's suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? A. Because the power of God in him/ her makes him/ her stands firm graciously coping and remaining in peace and exhibiting joy beyond comprehension by the world around. Q. Why do you think Paul contrasts "jars of clay" with "all-surpassing power"? A. To illustrate the surpassing great power of God that is in us through the Holy Spirit of God, mere mortals, like earthen vessels Q. What is the "treasure" that is contained within us? A. The awesome and mighty power of God A. How does this differ from the New Age truism of "believe in yourself"? A. On our own, we are nothing and have nothing on own but with Christ in us, we are wonderful and have awesome power of God working in us that we can declare that " I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me: Phil 4:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnMc13 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 The "treasure in clay jars" image explains that it isn't about us. Trouble has a way of cracking clay jars, but when the jars are cracked, it's contents are revealed. The contents within the jars (us) is the glory of Christ (within us) IF we have surrendered our life to Him. New Age truism is about yourself which is opposite of the truth, it's all about Him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Tavaziva Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer's suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts "jars of clay" with "all-surpassing power"? What is the "treasure" that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of "believe in yourself"? In (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Paul willingly served the Corinthian church even though the people had deeply disappointed him. Serving people requires a sacrifice of time and personal desires. Being Christ’s follower means serving others, even when they do not measure up to our expectations. God uses us to spread his Good News, and he gives us power to do his work. Knowing that the power is his, not ours, should keep us from pride and motivate us to keep daily contact with God, our power source. Our responsibility is to let people see God through us. Though we may think we are at the end of the rope, we are never at the end of hope. Our perishable body is subject to sin and suffering, but God never abandons us. Because Christ has won the victory over death, we have eternal life. All our risks, humiliations, and trials are opportunities for Christ to demonstrate his power and presence in and through us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilka Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Q2. Thanks God for 2. Corinth.4:5-12. I understand a believer' suffering is many time in conflict and unhappy until death, we are not alone in the world if you believe only in the Lord show us the way to the glory in His kingdom. Paul teach us about "let light shine out of darkness, make his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.. Glory of God via pressure of life, Paul teach us : hard press but not crushed, perplexed but not in despair, persecuted but not abandoned, struck down but not destroyed. hin I have the knowledge because of that I make good relationship with God and He give me the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ, Amin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2014 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 On 12/16/2016 at 1:47 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? A believer's suffering displays Christ at work or presence in our lives. Paul contrast jars of clay with all-surpassing power because we in our bodies are like clay jars, which can break with pressure. However, with Christ dwelling within us, we display his all-surpassing power to endure. The treasure that is contained within us is the presence of the Holy Spirit. Christ presence within us displays that we depend on Christ to help us endure. By this endurance, we display his awesome power within us. New Age truism of "belief in yourself" is a deceptive and false belief. We are not strong to endure the attacks of the devil or oppression from others. This is indeed a false and deceptive ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganti Vivek Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Believers sufferings makes ones witness more crediable because you are setting an example by going through the sufferings to otheres as a living testimoney so that others who are lesser in faith will get spiritual strenght to face sufferings because Christ Himself has suffered before us. Paul contrasts Jars of clay with all spurpassing power and says that all the power is from God not from us, here in his example to compare with clay pots made of earth and dirt, if moulded properly with skilled craftsman they become the vessels of utility with durability. The Holy spirit which fills the empty vessels will become vessels of stored up treasure, all the worthless vessels once filled will quench the spiritual thirst of the lost mankind. The new age truism of believe in yourself is a deceptive and false belief, the power is in Jesus Christ which dwells in us and makes the useless in us useful through him. so believing in oneself will yield no results as we are powerless and weak we cannot resist and defeat the devil, and neither we can save ourselves nor others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eager Bver Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? We are lights in a dark world. To withstand persecution and not retaliate is a strong witness where God's glory is expressed. Jars of clay is us humans who are powerless until the potter, who is God, fashions us his way. The treasure is God's spirit where his glory is shown thru us. We of ourselves, can do nothing without Christ. He is all powerful. It is thru God that we live, move and have our being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 When a believer suffer it makes his or her witness more credible to the world because people can see that we are suffering in peace. We can still peak of our saving Lord even while we suffering. We know that God has put His word in us which is the “jars of clay” but it isn’t about us it is about Him therefore we have the “all surpassing power”. The “treasure” that is contained in us is Jesus Christ. We don’t “believe in yourself” we believe in the one that created us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marialana Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? I think that when we suffer in Christ and we respond as he would in any of the fruits of the Spirit (love joy, peace,patience, kindness ,goodness or self control )people will wonder what is going on. This is not of ourselves. Some will recognize thatt there is something different about us and will be drawn to Christ. Of course some will think we are crazy!? I think Paul contrasts jars of clay (meaning us) and all surpassing power (meaning Christ) to show a picture of who we are. We are a plain container, he is the true essence of life, love and power. One day his glory will be revealed in us. I read this bible study this am and then took a nap. I woke up with a song I learned growing up. As a kid being raised in the Catholic Church I found the mass boring because to me it was so repetitive. But frequently the icing on the cake was that we had an elderly woman that would play the organ and sing. Over and over and over we would hear the song "in earthen vessels" Here voice was, we'll, ahem.... old!?BUT it stuck in my heart!!!! I was laughing to myself and smiling to the Lord this morning saying to him that I guess he wanted me to learn that one! Here is the lyrics. It is quite good. Earthen Vessels Lyrics by John Foley S.j.We hold a treasure, not made of gold, In earthen vessels, wealth untold, One treasure only: the Lord, the Christ, In earthen vessels. 1...Light has shone in our darkness: God has shown in our heart, With the light of the glory of Jesus, the Lord. 2... He has chosen the lowly, who are small in this world; In his weakness is glory, in Jesus the Lord. Last question. How does that differ from "believe in yourself"? Ha! We cannot do anything good in this world that has lasting value except we do it in him. Our "power" is useless! It always fails and backfires on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie343 Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 SUFFERING MORE CREDIBLE: we all suffer but it is how we respond when faced with suffering; witness by our actions and attitude of still being yielded to God; to give God the glory regardless (truth being lived out) "JARS OF CLAY" CONTRAST "ALL-SURPASSING POWER: Weak, imperfect, immoral people being the vessel used by God to show His glory; being subject to God's purpose - acknowledging the omniscient God and His work TREASURE WITHIN US: Treasure of satisfying our spiritual thirst through Christ; the Spirit of God leading us; the glory of God displayed (not of self); the hope shown to people - compassion and love of God; the spiritual gifts seen DIFFER FROM NEW AGE TRUISM: There is misplaced honor but we need faith above all; living according to the Spirit and not the flesh; revealing God's power and not self; hearing, seeing, sharing with others (not selfish with goal of placating self and putting it above God); focused on eternal life and what would please God (motives) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Joanne Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 On 12/16/2016 at 11:47 AM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? When we are suffering and people are noticing. It is how we conduct our selves. Are we moaning and groaning? And blaming? Although I do think some moaning and groans are warranted. But then who do we turn to? God? If we turn to God then our faith will be demonstrated. Do we forge ahead in out suffering trusting that God will take care of us. Do we find some joy or continue to worship God and turn to him? By these actions we give notice to others our faith. The jars of clay are the vessels, just as we are the vessels. We are holding great treasure. Sometimes these jars are become broken, just as we are, but they can be repaired. The treasure within us is our faith. Believe n yourself means rely on yourself, when in actuality we need Jesus to guide us through our life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Irving Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 12/16/2016 at 1:47 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer’s suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? Why do you think Paul contrasts “jars of clay” with “all-surpassing power”? What is the “treasure” that is contained within us? How does this differ from the New Age truism of “believe in yourself”? Because they have had experience in suffering for the Lord. People can tell a true believer from a fake one if they have the wisdom to discern the difference between the two. It’s the power of God in our earthly vessels through Christ. The Holy Ghost is the treasure inside ourselves, He guides us through life and teaches us what to say and how to say it. You should believe in God more than you believe in yourself because God knows all, and will never abandon His children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newwine50 Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 Q2. (2 Corinthians 4:5-12) Why does a believer's suffering make his or her witness more credible to the world? This is hard for me to answer. I know that there are many sufferings that a Christian goes through but I believe many of them are caused by us doing things our way instead of God's way. Why do you think Paul contrasts "jars of clay" with "all-surpassing power"? We are the jars of clay. The surpassing power is of God. What is the "treasure" that is contained within us? Christ. How does this differ from the New Age truism of "believe in yourself"? We aren't believing in ourselves. We are believing in Christ in us, the hope of glroy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanele Tlhakanelo Posted June 16, 2023 Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 Firstly, as believers, we are not immune to the challenges and sufferings that all the people through but because Christ lives in us, we are able to stand and still proclaim the goodness and faithfulness of God in our lives. We understand that God did not promise us that we will not trials and tribulations but He has made known to us that He has overcome the world meaning that if we trust in Him, all these things will pass away. We are the jars of clay because we are vessels that can be easily broken. We have limited power as jars but we can do unlimited acts through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. The all surpassing power is the Spirit of God that is in us that enables us not to be crushed by the things of this world. The treasure is the Holy Spirit because He dwells in us to guide, direct and help us when we feel overwhelmed. We are able to do all things because the Holy Spirit is our enabler and without Him we can do nothing. We will be fooling ourselves if we believe that whatever we do is of our own accord and that we deserve the honor and the glory. Only God is able to do exceedingly, abundantly above what we can ask or imagine. We are given the power to do things because the Holy Spirit is there in us and therefore we cannot believe in ourselves but in the power of God that is within us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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