Pastor Ralph Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peta-Gay Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 By myself can do nothing proves that Jesus was not working from his own divinity but by depending on God. Jesus seeks to see what the Father is doing and hear what the father is saying then act on that basis. Since God is always at work in our day, we should use quiet time to meditate and discern what he is doing and cooperate with Him in it, then we will see the power of God in action in our lives. I can therefore use Jesus' example as a pattern for my ministry by developing a lifestyle where I use quiet time to seek God's guidance and will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogird Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Quote John 5: verse19:20Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. I teach Robotics in High School and I understand that robots or computers are "dumb" meaning they need instruction even to do the simplest task. Reading these verse I understand that Jesus was not a "robot" or direct physical extension without free will and personality. Jesus was a unique human being and divine same time. Having his own personality and free will He did not venture out to establish an alternative kingdom apart from the kingdom of the Father. There are two extremes, one is losing one's unique personality and being possessed by external forces (some eastern religions) or follow the letter of a law (Pharisees and etc). Another extreme is to establish one's own authority and act autonomously. As a son of man, I think Jesus was in the middle. Father loved the Son and showed him all things. As the son of God, Jesus had the oneness with the Father and saw His work and knew His will. His mission was the mission of His Father. "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." verse 30. I can learn from the example of Jesus that I need to abide in Jesus and apart from Him I can do nothing that can bring lasting change. Same time I should not bury my coins in the ground and fear to act and seek revelation or bible verses for each of my step. At the same time, I should not selfishly follow my own heart and do things and ask God to bless them afterward. Quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cab0307 Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 I have several questions in this area of the study. As I said in my introduction, I love to research, so as I read through this section, the word, "ontological," popped up and I wanted to know the definition. I read about "ontological Trinitarianism" (no debate--I believe in the Three in One) and it spoke about "economic Trinitarianism," where it indicated that there were many debates on this topic. I believe fully that Jesus' physical life was a pattern for us to see how to live in our physical bodies, seek, obey, care and be an example to others. And His prayer life was to show us that we should and need to be connected--life runs so much easier when I am practicing the presence of God. You mentioned Jesus; "economic subordination" role with the Father and how Jesus was dependent upon the Father. My questions are: Could this be similar to our relationship with Jesus? Would we be considered "economically subordinate" through Jesus, since we were created in the 'Image and Likeness' of God [Reading Richard Rohr's study about God, as well, as this one.] (John 15:15) Jesus said that we were no longer slaves/servants, but friends and in Romans we are 'adopted heirs.' It appears to be somewhat like a family tree? I hope this doesn't sound crazy. I'm always trying to figure our easy ways--as Jesus did--for people to understand, when presenting the Trinity and Christ to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVerne Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, "By myself I can do nothing"? (vs. 30). Because He cannot detach Himself from the other two parts of the trinity How do you justify this statement with Jesus' divine nature as the Son of God? How can my body work without my heart? How can Jesus do the will of the Father without the power of the Holy Spirit? In what ways can we use Jesus' example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? When I get ready to do anything I need to seek first what God wants me to do, and then obey Him. How do you think Jesus would "see" and "hear" the Father? I don't know about the seeing, but I think the hearing is just listening to the Holy Spirit to guide Him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura11 Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 I got a bit ahead of myself in my response to the first question in that Jesus knew that everything he was able to do came directly from God. God used the vessel called Jesus to perform many miracles on His behalf...to show us who He is and how truly powerful and loving He is. Although Jesus was the Son of God, he was in human form and with that comes inherent limitations. Jesus knew this but nevertheless allowed God to use him in a way that best served the Kingdom of God. Jesus was special and without blemish but in God's eyes, we ALL are as well. My greatest difficulty is truly believing that. I believe Jesus was better able to clearly see and hear God because he was completely without blemish and sin so his connection to God was stronger. I believe Jesus had the gift of sight. I also think that his connection was stronger because of his divine nature...but I don't really know because we are all divine creatures in God's eyes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godswriter Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). Being a former Bible student who took courses in theology and Bible both. I can say that He needed to abide in the Father for anything to be done. That way all things would be accomplished the Father would get the glory due Him from it. How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? The Book of Colossians states that in It pleased that Jesus all the fullness dwells in Him. IN what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? We can learn to pray before we do our work or ministry first. By praying to Him daily and doing His will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). Jesus works were with the Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). With the three anything can happen but if they worked individually nothing would happen. I do believe God could work individually though. How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? His divine nature is with God. God is with Jesus as he does his journey on earth protecting him, guiding him and giving him knowledge. In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? We should copy Jesus' ways with love, kindness and caring for the people around us. How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? I believe he could see the Father as an image, like Moses did. I believe he heard the Father audibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlander Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Once again Jesus is leading us by example. This is powerful. One of his Glorious names, “Son of Man, “ as a son of man he can do nothing without his father. We too can do nothing without God. Another example for us to relate to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lottie Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Question 2: A Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself, I can do nothing.”? Jesus said to emphasize to the Jews and His followers that God is the one who gives Him the power. He cannot do miracles on His own in human form. Jesus had to rely on God and the Holy Spirit to work through Him. Just as we cannot do anything by ourselves. We cannot witness to others or overcome our own bad habits and sins. Only through the Holy Spirit in us can we be overcomers. b. How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? Although Jesus was God’s Son as a human he had no power. Jesus gave up all his authority and glory when He came to the earth. He was divine and human, therefore, He needed the Father’s help. Just like we need God’s help to do His will. God is all-powerful and can do anything. Nothing is impossible for Him. c. In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? I can realize and understand that in order to obey God I need to spend time with Him and listen to Him. I need to study the Word and understand what He wants us to do. I need to be in close communion with the Father as He was so that I can know what He wants me to do and be able to glorify Him better. I need to admit that I cannot do it on my own; that I need his divine help. Only God can give me the ability and power to fulfil His will here on earth. I just need to believe this and look to Him and not what is around me. Something that I am having a lot of trouble with right now. D. How do you think Jesus would “see” and ‘hear” the Father? I think He heard the Father when he prayed to Him and listened for His voice. I think He saw the Father in all that God had created on earth. He also saw Him through the Old Testament stories and the Psalms of David. He probably also saw The Father as He remembered when He was with Him and how God spoke things into existence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 On 11/28/2017 at 9:57 AM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? 1. Jesus limited Himself (as our elder brother), to total dependence upon His Father, just as we also are limited until we rely on Holy Spirit for empowering and His wisdom in everything He would face that day...one day at a time, one moment at a time. 2. Jesus was fully God and fully man, yet without sin. He modeled for us how we are to live in reliance upon Him for life and living rather than" leaning on our own understanding, and like Jesus, one day at a time, one moment at a time. 3. I used to think that Jesus "knew" everything because He was fully God....but that's not true. The truth is He was also fully man and limited as we are...and His example is that He was always in tune with His Father to know who, what, where, when and why, so to speak. He lived in constant communion/communication with His Father. He is our forerunner in all things! For example: It was a word of knowledge that revealed Zacchaeus' name and information when He saw him up in the Sycamore tree. He said He did not know the day and the hour of the end times He was describing to His disciples and so on. 4. He relied on words of knowledge, words of wisdom, Holy Spirit inspiration and empowering as He was always listening for His Father's instruction. He also relied on the written Word which He studied as a young Jewish boy and knew the Torah by heart, and could quote it from memory. I love that! The Word of God, in skin, quoting and relying on the Word of God to heal and reach men and women for God. Such an amazing gift that is also available to us...if we're willing to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RileyDnwJ Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) a) Why do you think Jesus said, "By myself I can do nothing"? (vs. 30). Because He has to be doing the will of His Father to be able to do what He does. b.) How do you justify this statement with Jesus' divine nature as the Son of God? The Father's will cannot go in one direction while the Son's will goes in another. They have to be aligned, working together for the Son to be able to do His Father's will in His own life as a man. c) In what ways can we use Jesus' example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? Seek God's will in our life and ministry. Our success depends on being in our Heavenly Father's will. We can ask much, but it is for naught if it is not in God's will. d) How do you think Jesus would "see" and "hear" the Father? Prayer and conversation - informal prayer. Asking and seeking His Father's will for Himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blezed Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 On 11/28/2017 at 12:57 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). Jesus is dependent on the Father and relies on His direction. How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are equal in Person, but the Son and Holy Spirit are subordinate to the Father in role -- "ontological equality, but economic subordination," in other words, "equal in being, but subordinate in role." In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? Our prayer life should be like Jesus. He seeks to see what the Father is doing and hear what the Father is saying through prayer and then act on it. How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? Through prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grammasherri Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself, I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). Jesus does what his Father does How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? Father, Son, Holy Spirit. 3 in 1. But the Jesus and the Holy Spirit come from the Father In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? We are supposed to be Christlike. Believe. Share. Pray. How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? By spending regular quiet time with God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, "By myself I can do nothing"? (vs. 30). How do you justify this statement with Jesus' divine nature as the Son of God? In what ways can we use Jesus' example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would "see" and "hear" the Father? Well, to put things in a matter of fact layout, I believe Jesus meant what he said, otherwise he would not have said it, because he speaks the truth only. Getting a little deeper on that one though, I think Jesus was referring to his dependency upon our father. Why else would he have spent so much time by himself communicating with his father? Just like a family government is supposed to be set up, the father is at the head of the table and is supposed to be the one full of wisdom and authority, Jesus always puts God first, in fact he told us to praise God. The father is the one who is supposed to decide who does what and why. We should be using all of Jesus’ ways for our own life and ministry if we want to see the power of God demonstrated through us. Oh yeah, open my eyes and ears Lord and get me squared away. I’m really loving this particular study because I am learning so much of what I really want to be in life and what I don’t want to be, and the study is only beginning. I’ve heard is stated and stated it myself many times that if you really want to be like Jesus, you have to BE like Jesus was. I’m not talking about all the healings and miracles either. To perform miracles like Jesus did we REALLY have to be like him and completely unload any worldly luggage being carried. How he would hear and see the father, was by living completely in the spirit, completely un-distracted. I often hear him from within and even see things in my mind at times but I really think Jesus was completely in tune with everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valteenia Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 11/28/2017 at 9:57 AM, Pastor Ralph said: Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? Jesus was complete God and complete human. He put his divinity aside and function as human to be an example for us. When we commune with the Father by praying. we should pause to listen to him. He want to fellowship with us by a two way conversation. We pray but we sometime don't listen for him to speak. I was guilty of this but now I am expecting him to speak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilka Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, “By myself I can do nothing”? (vs. 30). How do you justify this statement with Jesus’ divine nature as the Son of God? In what ways can we use Jesus’ example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would “see” and “hear” the Father? - Because He is the son of God as Father in heaven, He depends of couse on his Father. - Jesus saw what the Father do and say - We can do like Jesus 'pray in solitary place. - Jesus said to them, 'My Father is always at his work to this every day, and I too am working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisbarak Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Since He put aside his own power for a time, He showed us that the will of God the Father was foremost and to seek to obey Him and bring Him glory. Great pattern for our own ministry. To seek His will is to seek thru the Bible and in prayer. He had seen how the Father worked. He heard in prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Grant Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, "By myself I can do nothing"? (vs. 30). How do you justify this statement with Jesus' divine nature as the Son of God? In what ways can we use Jesus' example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would "see" and "hear" the Father? 1. Jesus was taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." (Philippians 2:6-7) He was depending on God. 2. It’s not about Jesus’ divine nature, but how Jesus performs miracles in the same way that he teaches his disciples to do them -- by direction from and dependence upon the Father. 3. We can accept that Jesus' miracles resulted from him being a human being who is full of faith and in tune with his Father's will and timing, that helps Jesus become our exemplar as the Spirit-Filled Man, whom we can learn from how to operate in the Spirit! 4. Jesus seeking not to please himself but the father who sent him. Jesus diligently seeks to see what the Father is doing (verse 19) and hear what the Father is saying (verse 30). Praying consistently to the father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindybear Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 I believe that Jesus shows us his humility and complete dependence on God. He is our example of how to live a godly life. Therefore if we want to be more like him, it's imperative of us to follow his lead in walking in the ways of righteousness. Jesus is the embodiment of agapé for a world full of sin and strife and since God is supremely holy, neither he nor Jesus have any part in those two evils. As the ultimate best friends forever, they are both highly attuned to each other's thoughts and feelings and can thus read, see and hear each other's hearts perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Q2. (John 5:19, 30) Why do you think Jesus said, "By Myself I can do nothing"? (vs. 30). How do you justify this statement with Jesus' divine nature as the Son of God? In what ways can we use Jesus' example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? How do you think Jesus would "see" and "hear" the Father? Jesus is fully God, however, when He came down to dwell among us, He voluntarily laid aside certain divine powers. That is why He could say that He can do nothing by Himself. This was for Him to be totally dependent on the Father while here on earth. This He did, for we always notice that Jesus acted in harmony and subordination to the Father’s will. Jesus said, “Whatever the Father does the Son also does” (5:19) confirming His divinity. Only someone who is equal to the Father could do everything He does. Also in John 10:30 Jesus also said “I and the Father Are One”. Since they are one in being, that is, one eternal God, to see Christ act is to see God act. Jesus is not only equal to God (Philippians 2:6), He is God (John 10:38; 12:45), as the visible image of the invisible God He is the exact representation of God. Once we have Jesus we receive the Holy Spirit who gives us insight into some of God's plans, thoughts, and actions. We could say that we have “the mind of Christ”. This only happens when we spend time in His presence and in His Word, building up an intimate relationship with our Saviour, acknowledging Him in everything we do, talking with Him, and listening to His answers to our prayers. For Jesus to see and hear the Father, He must have had continual access to the Father and complete knowledge of what is going on in heaven. For this to happen He must have been very closely united with God the Father. This Jesus confirms in John 14:10-11, where He describes the closeness of the union between the Father and the Son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandtoad Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Jesus, the man, needed His Father just as we do. Jesus is the Son of God and also man. As stated in verse 19 & 30, Jesus does whatever His Father does. We must accept our reliance on God and follow Him as Jesus did and seek to please God as Jesus did, verse 30. Jesus would retire to a quiet place, pray and listen for His Father’s voice telling Him what path He should take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elaineer Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 .Jesus got direction and answers by praying to God.,so that He could fulfill the fathers Will. 2. There are 3 persons. The Father,Son and Holy Spirit. 3 To go to God for Wisdom,Guidance and to Lead us. 4. Jesus saw the father by praying and keeping silent so that He could hear His voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilter Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 Because of his unity with God,Jesus lived as God wanted him live. Because we know Jesus we must honor him and live as he wants us to live. 2 It is true what the scriptures say Jesus does his Father's will. We are to do the Father's will and pray in the Father's will. 3 We know to get into God's word study pray for understanding of it and for the Father to give us wisdom. This is where the listening for God's word comes in. We study and listen for God'word to be discerned to us. We are to do all things in God's will. 4 By praying to the Father. Doing what the Father would have him do. Asking him in his will. Listen for his answer. By asking in the Father"s will Jesus is doing exactly what the Father would have him do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil NRG Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 Why do you think Jesus said, "By myself I can do nothing"? (vs. 30). Coming to earth in a human form means that He cannot do anything without seeing and hearing what the Father is saying for each situation of every day. How do you justify this statement with Jesus' divine nature as the Son of God? Jesus is sub-ordinate to the Father. In what ways can we use Jesus' example as a pattern for our own life and ministry? Jesus has a servant heart and wholly depends on the Father for everything He does. He seeks to please the Father, not Himself. We too need to develop our servant heart, thinking of others rather than ourselves, and most importantly be patient and wait on the Lord, the prompting of His Holy Spirit within us. How do you think Jesus would "see" and "hear" the Father? For Jesus, hearing could be by inner voice of the Holy Spirit or the audible voice of another (Father, Angel, prophet or Christian brother/sister). Seeing seems to relate to discernment from paying close attention to what the Father is saying (i.e. being aware and listening carefully). It probably also relates to His knowledge of God’s Word, which He studied diligently from a young boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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