Q2. Urim and Thummim

[Pastor Ralph]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

[patahutch]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

Both are instructive as they give direction as to what we are querying God about. 

When David needed more than a "yes" or "no" he would ask God for a sign.

[JanMary]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:12 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

1. The nudges were vague in regard to how to proceed... A Yes or a No,  but nothing concrete.( I'm thankful that as believers we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit unlike David who had to rely on the Urim and Thummim, and we have a built in GPS, (Guide, Parent, Savior, Savior) who can be counted on to give us clear direction if we get quiet and listen for the next step.

2. When David needed more than a yes or no answer he received a full battle plan. When we get nudges, in my opinion I believe the Lord is saying, "Stay Tuned....listen Up....there is more to come, so don't run ahead of Me,  proceed with caution until you hear the plan from me." He wants relationship with His children. If He'd wanted robots where He could just press a button and they would do His bidding, He would have made robots. Promptings encourage us to engage with Him on an intimate level of seeking and listening.

[blezed]

On 11/28/2017 at 1:12 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25)

What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction?

The similarity is that the nudges or promptings from God could be a "yes" or "no" and the Urim and Thummim could be a "yes" or "no" in giving directions.  However, God directions could go beyond a "yes" or "no".

What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

God went beyond a "yes" or "no" and gave David clear directions. 

 

[Godswriter]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? The similarity between the two is that could be a yes or no answer that God gives us just like for David when God gave him a yes or no for what he was to do as well. However God sometimes can go beyond a yes or no answer as well. 

What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer? God tells him straight out what he must do and how he must go about it. The Lord tells him this;  You shall not go up but circle around behind them and come at them in front of the balsam trees. And when you hear the sound of marching in the tops of the balsam trees then you shall pay attention and act promptly, for at that time the Lord will have gone out before you to strike the army of the Philistines. 

[Lottie]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when

 

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer?

The similarity is that they both are brief answers but the stones are not always right. As in the case of Saul and his son Johnathan when Johnathan took some of the honeycomb when he was really hungry. No one at the time told him what his father had vowed. And all the Israelites were very weak and hungry from not eating anything at the time. That is why they killed the animals and ate them with the blood. It was not the fault of Johnathan that it happened but his father. God never told him to do that. That is why he was spared by the people from being killed. This time they should have asked God who was in the wrong and not used the Urim and Thummin to decide which one was responsible for God not answering Saul. One should always directly ask God and not rely on things like stones or tarot cards like people do now. Only God alone can give you the answers you want.

Yes, the stones were right in most instances and aligned with what God wanted but if the Israelites would have directly followed the answer concerning Johnathan; then he would have been killed. But God stepped in and saved him in the end.

When David needs more than a yes or a no he inquires directly of the Lord. He knows that he needs God’s guidance to do the right thing. He wanted to know for sure if he should go against them and attack because the people were looking to him for guidance.

David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer?

[sheep35]

What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? The stones & nudge types of interpreted questions seem to be quick, more instant yes or no answers. Both are dependent on God’s sovereignty & participation in believers lives. Interestedly there is a New Testament use of lots (Acts 1:23-26) to replace Judas. What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer? He gets a more prophetic, full answer based on God’s plans. I appreciate Hebrews 1:2 that mentions that God has spoken through His Son & that we can know now by the Spirit (1Cor 2:10). This teaching has made me a bit more confused; connecting an obsolete Old Testament practice to an already ambiguous potentially subjective interpretation.  

[Debra Grant]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer? 

 1. God will answer yes or no and possibly let us wait on an answer. God’s answer is more accurate. The Urim and Thummim will also give an yes or no answer or nothing at all.

 2. David asks a question and then he waits for the Lord to answer. David receives  "yes" and "no" nudges combined occasionally with clear sentences of revelation from God. He goes to God for an dependable and accurate answer.

[Uncle Dave]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer?

First, this is the first time I have ever looked into the Urim and the Thummim. To be honest, I never even heard of them, although I have probably read the words and not even paid the slightest attention to them, shame on me for that, for not investigating what I don’t know that is. From what I have been able to find on the subject I’m thinking that if it were the priest using the Urim and Thummim the answer should have been more than clear, that is, clearer than just a nudge. David was in some serious spots here and would have been looking to hear from God in a more direct, or precise manner than just a nudge. That is my personal opinion of course and although open for discussion I’m at a total lack of knowledge on this one, at least for the time being. When he needs more than a yes or no answer, David would have seeked the voice of God or the words of a trusted priest.

[Zilka]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

- I think God knows everybody when with Him communication.

- Depend of relationship to God.

[hanks]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) 
What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? 
What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer? 
In Scripture we read of the many ways in which God communicated to mankind. He used the Urim and Thummim, theophanies and audible voices, dreams, visions, and prophetic inspiration. But in David’s case I’m inclined to think that David made more use of promptings and nudges from God. He had a very close relationship with God and the Holy Spirit must have influenced his decision making.
The use of the Urim and Thummim was perhaps used as a sort of confirmation.
When he needed more complex answers he must have used multiple questions. 
Where I live, South Africa, we have Sangomas (Traditional healers) who perform certain rituals by the throwing of bones. Essentially, the bones are scattered by hand usually in a circle and then read. Meaning is deduced in accordance with the position in which the bones fall. Quoting from Wikipedia: “Traditional healers of South Africa are practitioners of traditional African medicine in Southern Africa. They fulfil different social and political roles in the community, including divination, healing physical, emotional and spiritual illnesses, directing birth or death rituals, finding lost cattle, protecting warriors, counteracting witchcraft, and narrating the history, cosmology, and myths of their tradition. There are two main types of traditional healers within the Nguni, Sotho-Tswana, and Tsonga societies of Southern Africa: the diviner (sangoma), and the herbalist (inyanga). These healers are effectively South African shamans who are highly revered and respected in a society where illness is thought to be caused by witchcraft, pollution (contact with impure objects or occurrences) or through neglect of the ancestors. It is estimated that there are as many as 200,000 indigenous traditional healers in South Africa compared to 25,000 Western-trained doctors. Traditional healers are consulted by approximately 60% of the South African population, usually in conjunction with modern biomedical services”. 
I feel that today we don’t need games of chance to make decisions, or the casting of lots, the rolling of dice, or even flipping a coin. We have the Word, the Holy Spirit, and prayer which are sufficient for discerning God’s will.
 

[haar]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25)

Q. What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction?

A. Both are similar because:

a) God's counsel is sought for in each method

a) A 'Yes' or 'No' answer is obtained in each in a short sentence that could be an audible voice/ prompting to the seeker's spirit Or the way the Urim displays the response of the Lord God Almighty to the enquiry made.

Q. What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer?

A.  God gives further audible instruction regarding the strategy given to David to attack and defeat the Philistines. 

 

[Jilly]

What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction?

Unsure about this question.  Guessing that God would have the stones turned the way he wanted them to answer as with nudges you get a strong answer or feeling.

What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

David gets a clear word, answer from the Lord.

[LaVerne]

(2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction?  They both are guidance from God.

 

What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer?  God gives more detailed direction.

[Marcia4657]

On 11/29/2017 at 2:12 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

(2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction?

They were both indications of a YES or a NO answer. 

What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

God details further instruction in a comprehensible way, that His direction is clearer, precisely what He wills it to be.

 

[charisbarak]

God's brief nudges are usually while you are on the path concerning the next step.  Urim & Thummim is a yes or no answer.

When more of an answer is needed--not just a yes or no, he gives clear direction in one form or another.

[quilter]

 

David prayed for a clear message from God. He may have been urged by the Holy Spirit. he could have went to the High Priest who consulted God through the Urim and Thummim.

2 God gave David clear instrutions on what to do and David follow completely.

 

[Johno]

On 28/11/2017 at 8:12 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

Seems to me they are similiar. The 1st is just a yes or no to a question where the stones indicate the same sort of thing. Sometimes as with David and the Philistines, we need an explanation as to what we ought to do.

[Michelle du Toit]

I think the Urim and Thummin are simalar to the yes/no promptings we receive, only we do not need stones to tell us because we have a direct relationship with the Holy Spirit who speaks to us in our hearts.  For me peace goes hand in hand with that direction giving.  Just as David received instruction, so we can receive instruction too.

At any time when we need more information from God, we are able to enter into His presence and ask for greater revelation.  When we come and inquire, the Lord reveals to us because He does not keep secrets and the Spirit reveals the heart and mind of God.  David did just that in developing a battle plan, and God revealed to him what to do.

We often get an impression from the Lord, but fail to pray for greater revelation.  I find it a good strategy to ask the Lord to show you more.

The only time I have found that the Lord does not show me more, is when He has already given me instructions, or when I don't need more information in order to obey Him.

 

[Damary Alembi]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? The similarity is the details of what needs to be done.

 

What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer? He inquires of the Lord for more details.
 

[Old Jerry]

The similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim is that the answer was from God. God will give us direction when we are listening to Him When David needed more that a “yes” or “no” answer then God spokes to him in a different way and to give him direction.

[rosegarden]

On 11/28/2017 at 1:12 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

a.) They are both direction from God. Today we have the promptings of the Holy Spirit received by the Word of God, by hearing the Word, or by inspiration that we can really know it is God speaking to us. 

b.) When David needed more than a yes or no,  he received it  through either Abiathar the priest or a clear word to David himself, who had prophetic gifts abundantly displayed in the Psalms.

[Neil NRG]

What's the similarity between God's brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David's use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction?

Yes, no and maybe.

What happens when David needs more than a "yes" or "no" answer?

It comes through a clear word of prophecy from the Holy Spirit.

[Paul Irving]

On 11/28/2017 at 12:12 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction? What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

David gets direction from God to attack the Philistines when he hears the sound of a going in the tops of the mulberry trees, then the Lord will smite the Philistines.  So the Lord did so, He smote the Philistines from Geba to Gazer.  God gives him more than a yes or no answer, God instructs David on what to do so the Lord can kill the Philistines who were notorious for worshipping idols and false gods.  

[Rosesam]

Q2. (2 Samuel 5:19, 22-25) What’s the similarity between God’s brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings, and David’s use of the Urim and Thummim to receive direction?

Brief, inarticulate nudges or promptings are mostly yes or no answers or abstract impressions. In the Old Testament period direction from the Lord was sought and understood trough the use of Urim and Thummim, in the way these stones lighted up. Even though we do not fully understood how these stones which could mean Lights and Perfections could articulate God’s guidance to the priest when he enquired of the Lord, the answers were mostly yes or no, or selecting someone/something by lots. So the answers were brief and that’s how they were similar.

What happens when David needs more than a “yes” or “no” answer?

When David needed much than yes or no answer, God does give him an elaborate answer with the strategy to be taken. That’s what God did to Joshua and the people for their Jericho conquest, Gideon and the three hundred against the mideonites, to mention a few.