Q1. Resisting Goads

[Pastor Ralph]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

[Highohfaith]

Christ is fully man and fully God. So whatever any one does to Him they are also doing to His own. He is God's child and we are His brothers and sisters. He loves us. He values us more than His own life. He shows us what Love is when He dies on the cross for us. I think the biggest goad has been my infirmities. Since I've became ill in 2009 and suffer from a lot of pain, become partially disabled. I have grown a lot in my personal relationship with Jesus.

I think it hurts Jesus more. He gave His life for us. By " bucking " against Him we are saying His sacrifice was in vain. It also hursts us because we don't enjoy the love, friendship, fellowship,comfort, assurance of eternal life the wonderful provincial care we know, when we are in fellowship with Christ.

[JanMary]

On 8/28/2019 at 10:06 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

 

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

A. Believers are indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, and.we are IN Christ, so persecuting a believer is actually persecuting Christ Himself. He warns us that the servant is not above the Master, and as He was persecuted, so will we be also.

By the same token Mt 25:40 says when we've cared for others, Jesus said "as far as you've done it for the least of these, My brethren, you've done it for me".....His words, His hands, His feet, His love and grace extended through us.

B. I was "trained to be obedient" through violent, abusive parenting with fists and leather razor strap, so I don't need goads or prods to get me moving. On the contrary, I fell in love with Jesus, my Gentle Shepherd who leads rather than in the style of Oriental shepherds of old, who drove the sheep from behind with whips. Not that I haven't strayed badly a time or two in rebellion, but He left the 99 and came after me, loved me into repentance, put me on His shoulders and carried me back to His "flock" and His green pasture, where I belong and where I never want to stray again.

C. Part of my repentance involved seeing that I was breaking His heart....it was painful for both of us! But those incidents retrained me to no longer want to stray or to  pursue my own way, as He healed the brokenness and dysfunction which led to disobedience. How I praise and thank Him for mercy and grace!

 

[Lottie]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

When someone persecutes Christians they are persecuting Jesus, who died for us. We are His His own body, His bride. When we are being persecuted He feels it. He knows what it is like to be hated. In my life, God has used Bible studies in other online groups to show me how prideful I was. He has used them to show me how selfish I was at one point and broken me. So that now because of it I have a better relationship with my daughter. Now He is trying to get me to see that it is easier to write when I let go of control. A few weeks ago when I was studying the Psalms the poems would just flow out of me now it seems I am dried up. He told me to take over. at He did that to show me how easy it was when I just let Him  speak through me. I believe it is harder on me when I kick because God will not let up until I surrender. He loves me too much to see me do a mediocre job; He wants me to trust Him. 

[sally607]

Question 1. Because we are tied to Christ. He hurts when we hurt. Paul was hurting Christians and Christ. So God wanted him to see what he was doing. 

Goads: God has been persistant with me with goads. Helping with the youth. Being an Elder. He prods and prods till we say yes. 

[Angelmom]

On 8/28/2019 at 1:06 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

Because as Christians we have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us, when we are persecuted, Christ is the center of the persecution.  People are not aiming their anger and hate at us but at the Living God in us.  I say that the light and spirit that live in us are seen and the dark spirit in those persecuting is rebelling against that light and spirit.

Being obedient to the Living God is hard as our flesh has a way of "wanting its own way."  God has given me may "prompts" to move me along Christ's path mostly in showing me His love and compassion for me so that I might pass it on to others.  This way I am aware of what he is doing in my life and this keeps me walking in the direction of eternity.

I believe it hurts the Living God more when we "push back" and not listen to His Spirit.  

[Preistina11]

Persecuting Christ’s people constitutes persecuting Christ Himself because the word of God says that Christ lives in us. 2 Corinthian 13:5 states: when Paul asks the question ^“examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” So, if a follower of Christ is persecuted, it literally means the Christ in us is the one being persecuted, as we are one with Christ, Jesus will feel our pain too. Jesus already warned us ahead saying: John 15:18  If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

 God has pushed me to follow Christ in the painful experience of going through my daughter’s health issues for almost coming up to 10 years now.  A rod of humility on the road of humility completed with trust in Him for everything has set my path straight, focusing on him forever, Amen.

 It was harder on me as I kept kicking against the goads but because God’s free grace, mercy and patience for me let me to be born again, to know who I am and whose I am. It was hard on me that I had a lot of fear but by experiencing his love in the valleys and mountains I have overcome.

[Work in progress]

We ,as God 's children, are the body of Christ with Christ as our Head .and each part just as important .So when we persecute His people, we are nailing Christ to the Cross again .

Because Abba Father is a loving ,gracious but holy God ,it hurts Abba Father more when we go astray and disobey Him .And when He has to discipline and chastise us .

 

 

[Teddy]

On 8/28/2019 at 7:06 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

To persecute the followers of  Chist is to persecute Christ himself, because they are the people spreading the good news of Christ, so if you are stopping them of being spreading the gospel, then you are putting an end of Jesus' work which He came to this world purposely to do.

As non-believer, I seen that ever since I started moving with Christ, as I want to be one of His servants and give my life to Him, all the bad behaviour that control me are now out of my life and I am able to tell the good news about Christ to some of my friends who have seen the difference between the previous life I was living and the life of today through Christ.  

[Nandita]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

Jesus loves us. When someone hurts the ones you love you feel their anguish. If we, in our imperfect love, can be wounded by the pain of the ones we love, how much more will it grieve Jesus who blankets us with perfect love? Our connection with him is particularly strong because of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

 

Sometimes God lets me face the consequences of my disobedience or my disloyalty. That doesn't necessarily mean I suffer pain or loss. Sometimes all he does is withdraw his presence (or perhaps his absence is because I've moved away). Sometimes he puts me in situations of fear and worry. All of that drives me back to his path. When I'm scared, worried, or in trouble, or when I can't feel his presence, I run back to him for protection. I realise the consequences of not being on Christ's path and find myself turning towards God again.

 

When I stray it grieves God more because he is capable of more love and understanding than I am. He knows where my rebellion is leading me. But when I resist his goads it's harder on me. God can bear my discomfort because he knows it will bring me back to him.

[Grow~Deeper]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:06 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

There is a strong bond between Jesus and his people, between Jesus and his Church. We are one with him and he with us (Ephesians 5:31-32). For this reason, a person who attacks the Church, attacks Jesus personally.

[Travis81]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself?

He is the Head of the Living Organism The Church - Matthew 25:40, 45

Persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ Himself because  harassing/hurting/persecutions “followers” of Christ, is persecuting His Body. Paul didn’t demonstrate he truly/really loved the Lord, nor the love of the Lord by harassing/hurting/persecuting those dedicated organisms of the Body. He loved the concept religion more than he did the relationship with the Giver. He wasn’t being a godly light unto the nations nor to the truly dedicated unto the Lord.   

What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path?

This is a difficult question for me to answer because I cannot overtly see the circumstance(s) or situation(s) when this has occurred. However, I could say to love as He does.  To love in all situations especially when I don’t particularly like the circumstance or situation. When I say love, I’m referring to love in demonstration. I’m not referencing saying I love but demonstrating love.   

A new Coworker accused me of making the work environment for her hostile! I had never engaged in any interactions or conversations with her prior to her false accusations.  I approached her after hearing her concern.  Immediately she blurted out uncultivated words / expletive.  I heard the words but didn’t listen to any of them, prior to walking away from her cubical I shared, “I need you, we have to work together, we have to learn to work together.  I’m not sure how we came to the place where we are, even so I will embrace you each day even if I have to do it beyond a gated fence. 

Each morning, afternoon and evening I’d share the appropriate sentiment and offer assistance if needed.

Within a month she applied and was offered new employment at a new location. Amazingly, she came to my cubical sharing this information with me prior to anyone else.  She extended an open hug and hugged me as if for dear life. She then said I was the only true person in the section.  I didn’t expect that at all.    

Initially upon hearing the accusation I wasn’t pleased, I wanted to follow unhealthy emotions but I knew that would not help anyone.  Initially I struggled within, but there was enough in me to move to heap coals of fire upon hear head.  To reflect the Light, to love.

When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

It’s harder on us, even so I believe it hurts God.  Perhaps this isn’t a good analogy, however it within my human understand. When a loving parent sees his/her child going against the grain and greatly struggling as the child continues “licking against the goads” the loving parent also experiences hardship. Likewise when I kick against the goad, when I sin, when I rebel God is displeased, God is hurt, God experiences hardship; even so He handles the hardship much better than His created being do.

[Guitar Jim]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself?

Jesus Himself said that what we do to the least of His people, we do to Him.

What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path?

God has been pretty brutal to me when it comes to goading me to follow Him. I rebelled for ten years after I'd been a Christian for just two years. The lure of secular acceptance and wanting to be one of the crowd saw me wilfully go my own way from 1973 to 1982. In 1982 I developed agoraphobia which completely ruined my life in every possible way. I had to quit my job because I couldn't even think about leaving my house without uncontrollable gagging and retching. However I got help from my doctor who prescribed me tranquillisers  to help control that to an extent.

One day I was walking through a shopping mall and encountered a man I'd known from back when I first became a Christian and he since become a Reverend and a Pastor. He invited me to Church and I went because of an increase in the intensity of the agoraphobia. He led me back to Jesus. Did God then take away the agoraphobia? No, he didn't. It became the thorn in my flesh for decades. I had to drug myself up just to go to work. Then some health problems started happening which nearly killed me. A tumor destroyed my pituitary gland in the mid 1980s and that further eroded my once robust health. God was teaching me dependence upon Him by making me rely on Him for sufficient health to function.

In the early 1990s I came good to a large extent when I became a father. I enjoyed several great years of seemingly abundant health. Then because of the hard physical nature of my job, I started to break down physically. In 1997 the work injuries culminated in my being pensioned off onto the Disability Support Pension. At that time I was advised by everyone who knew me to make my hobby of guitar playing into a backup income by turning professional. When I say "everyone", I mean everyone except my pastor, who wanted me, instead, to drive taxis. I considered him an idiot in many ways. He'd become Australia's youngest Reverend and Pastor at just 21 years old. He hadn't held down a job in the secular workforce, so I didn't think him qualified to advise me in that regard. I wasn't alone in that viewpoint.

So I launched myself off into unknown waters and have been doing the professional musician thing for 22 years with nothing but my faith in God to sustain me. To say I've had ups and downs in the music industry would be akin to saying Hurricane Katrina was a summer shower! My musical career has cost me my marriage, my relationship with my daughter, and every friend I ever had. Yet all this time I've still been getting signs from God to keep going at it.

There have been times when I wondered if I was on the right path . . I mean I play in licensed venues where alcohol is sold and it's my job to keep the people there for longer than they'd stay if I wasn't there. I asked a wise Christian about this and he said that I was the only Gospel those lost people were probably ever gonna read.  When I go to work I'm the sole light burning in a sea of darkness. If I was just playing Christian music in Church, I'd be playing to the saved, not to the lost. Mind you, I play secular music exclusively. I applied to join the Church band but was rejected for being to hard core and rocky . . at 63 years old at the time!

My "ministry", if such it could me called, happens during my breaks when I go and sit with the people who have been the most appreciative of my show. It's in those conversations that the Holy Spirit works on them by my allowing Him to have his way in the way these people perceive me. I'll never know this side of Glory how much effect, if any, I've had on them. I just humbly do my job and let God take care of how my doing that impacts my audiences. I'm possibly and probably the best in Australia in my genre, but I work independently of the major players, movers, and shakers in the industry and consequently I have to work in out of the way country hotels and clubs, as well as biker functions. Those big booking companies have been trying to exterminate me for years now. Even in this, I see the hand of God keeping me down and keeping me humble. I get my daily bread and hardly a crumb more. These people who control almost the entire music industry are of particular despicable character; they're control freaks; they're actual criminals in the way they do business, holding back the money paid to the musicians for their own financial gain. I'm well rid of them, but it's really hard for me to get enough work, especially now that I've turned 65.

When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

I'm gonna have to say it's harder on me. God has piled up on me many hardships, physical and mental, that I assume He's using to build my character and to increase the level of sanctification in me. Sometimes it becomes so overwhelming that I break down and beg God to please take a break from building my character just for today so I can go to work and do my job!

[garymerkel]

Because God love us so much, I believe it grieves Him when He has to discipline us and send us trails, yet, at the same time, He always knows what is best and so, like a doctor, when He has to do surgery on us, it is painful for us, but always beneficial for our healing and growth.  When I resist God's surgery, I am also resisting His healing, correction, and the maturity of my faith.  I'm the one who makes faith harder when I don't totally surrender.  Like Abraham and like Paul, God wants to bring me into conformity to His Son...consequently, the hardships of life, even the persecutions are used for my good because they are under God's control.

[newwine50]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself?  Because we are the Body of Christ.  He is the Head of the Body. 

What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path?    At the moment I am trying to get back to Christ alter many years in religion. 

When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?  It is harder for me, but I also believe that it is hard for God to get His mission done when we are kicking against the goads. 

[Uncle Dave]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God? http://www.joyfulheart.com/forums/topic/1830-q1-resisting-goads/

Because Jesus is one with His followers. If you do harm to one of Jesus’s people, it is the same as if you had done it to Jesus himself. This is, to me, the truest sense of one in spirit. It’s a connection that is ironclad if you are a true follower. Perhaps another way of thinking might be, say, for example, a close loved one is seriously hurt in an accident, or hurt in any way that you actually, in your spirit sink a bit. Please excuse the morbid example I’m about to use but imagine that someone you are very close to is being executed for no reason at all and you are being forced to watch, unable to do anything, you would feel the pain in your spirit the same as the person being harmed. Jesus feels our pain in the same way. The same as He is one with our Father, He is one with His church.

The goads and prods…in order to get my attention, God prodded me in many ways, some of them prods seemed like they were really sharp. I am not going to mention any specifics here, but before I finally decided to live for Christ, I felt the prod in many forms and fashions. Even when I thought I was following Him, (the early days), I often felt the prods to get me on the right path. Yes, Jesus knows when you are just trying to win His favor and when you approach Him in truth and spirit. All I will say is it took a major prodding to get my attention.

When you kick against the goads, I think it is hard on both self and God. It is hard on self because it seems like all you do is try to escape the presence of God, but denying God the glory He deserves puts one on a path leading to destruction and it is written that it is His will that all would be saved. He made everybody with love and any attempt to not accept what He has to offer could be compared to the feeling you get when you give something to someone as a gift and they come back at you complaining that it isn’t exactly what they had in mind.

 

[RD35]

There is a strong bond between Jesus and his people, between Jesus and his Church. We are one with him and he with us (Ephesians 5:31-32). For this reason, a person who attacks the Church, attacks Jesus personally.

The Church is often viewed as a human institution -- flawed and often disappointing. But it is more than that, and if we treat it as merely human, we err. The Church is Christ's own body, and we must treat it with the reverence due Jesus himself (1 Corinthians 3:17).

[Old Jerry]

When you are persecuting Christ’s people you are persecuting what Christ has taught them therefore you persecuting Christ Himself. The goads that I have seen God use on me was my mother-in-law. She use to think that I knew more about the Bible then I did and as not to disappoint her, I started studying the Bible. When I “kick against the goads” I feel that it is harder on me because I am not following what God wants me to do.

 

[jesus]

When you persecute the people of Christ which is the Church His Body, you are persecuting Jesus Himself. As we see in Ephesians 5:31-32 Jesus is one with His people  and we with Him. Jesus  loves His Church where He is the Head and we the people of Christ his body. Therefore, one who persecutes Christ's people persecutes Jesus Himself.

God has used several goads or prods in my life to move along Christ's path. It came in the form of my husband losing his job, illness in the family, me feeling a lack in life despite having everything life had to offer. Could not resist God and His Holy Spirit but submit and surrender to Jesus .

When we kick against the goads,definetly its harder on us and not on God. God waits patiently for us to return to Him and till we delay going back to Him we suffer.

[Debra M]

We are one with Jesus.  Jesus says whatever we do to one of His people we do to Him.  Matthew 25:40.  We are one in His Spirit.  1 Corinthians 6:17.

God will close doors on me that I see as open and when I try to go through the door, I am met with obstacle after obstacle and eventually defeat. 

I feel it is harder on me but Lamentations 3:33 says this is not so.

[nancychua]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:06 AM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

Jesus is the head of the Church and the people are His body.  We are all one in Him, so when we persecute His people, we are persecuting Jesus Himself also. God is Holy, pure, and righteous by nature , so He requires His people to be set apart from evil as Holy to the Lord.  Sin and rebellion against Him were exposed in an effort to turn the people toward holy living for complete dedicatiion to God`s purposes. 

 

. 

[ellie-0]

"Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?"

- We are the Body.

- He uses His Word to keep me in check.

- Is it harder on me or God when I'm kicking against the goads...? Hmmm. It is hard on us both - on Him because it breaks His heart to see us struggling when we don't have to; on me because I am a weak and broken vessel, with no ability to find my own remedy, and quick to forget the God Who is with me in every storm - therefore my suffering seems insurmountable at times. God sees the end from the beginning, therefore knows the outcome - I do not, and without faith I begin to drown. I believe God is in all things with me, and His heart aches in the moment with me - His capacity to suffer is inconceivably greater than the whole of humanity combined, therefore making comparisons is futile - is His suffering greater or lesser...? What I do know is when I am in the throes of woe it's all about me and all else must go! Haha! Nothing ever seems harder at the time - therefore, I submit to you that due to my sincerely limited capacity I am unable to answer the last portion of Q1. LOL.

Edited September 9, 2019 by ellie-0
correct grammar

[Linda Stanley]

if you persecute believers we persecute Christ Jesus ,because believers are the body of Christ. Yes I have pains, .and my pains do lead me closer to God. If I don't turn toward God I then suffer more  .Id rather have God with me ,as God could be warning me about something. Like ,trying to lead me the right way. 

[t-c]

Q1. (Acts 9:4-5; 26:14) Why does persecuting Christ's people constitute persecuting Christ himself? What kinds of goads or prods have you seen God use on you to move you along Christ's path? When you "kick against the goads" is it harder on you or on God?

 

As you said earlier Pastor Ralph, when we show goodness and love to others, we are doing these unto Christ. So the same holds true when we persecute or do evil to God's people, we are doing the same to Him.

 

The realities of my sin or behavior. Other believers commenting on what I should be doing, rather than what I am doing. More than anything else, a conviction from the Holy Spirit on what I am doing or not doing, as opposed to what I should be doing.

 

 Me for sure, because I am missing out on the abundant life that I would have if I was obedient to the will of Christ.

[Brother troy]

It hurts Jesus a lot, grieves his Holy Spirit. When we say things that hurt one another it hurts him, greater is he that is in me then he who is in the world. He feels your/ mine pain. Union with JESUS with one another in the body. The Holy Spirit encourages me I believe he uses this as a prod, but also disciplining me though hard also is a prod. The fires he takes us through he prods me along but is so gentle and kind. When I kick against the goads I think both but it hurts Papa way more then me, so hope no kicking.