Q2. Careful Recruiting

[Pastor Ralph]

Q2. (5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader. What damage does this do to the church? What kind of leader does it produce?

[sunilbernard]

Q2. (5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader. What damage does this do to the church? What kind of leader does it produce?

This action is so common. In fact, two days back I was requesting a person to take up the responsibility of Sunday School Supdt. She was giving all kinds of excuses for not taking it up. Ultimately I gave up. It was a good thing that she refused. Otherwise she would have been forced to work for the church and the commitment coming out of the heart would not have been there. That's what happens when we arm-twist a person to do the Lord's work. The ministry of that individual will not bear fruit and the time and efforts of all concerned would have gone waste. The church ministry suffers in the process and there is a break/gap in the service of the church. The progress is hampered. How important it is to find true workers for the Lord and dedicate them to His service.

[AngelOnLine]

Q2. (5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader.

A person that is forced to take a leadership roll in the Church because he/she is made to feel guilty, will not be an effective leader. If this leader is asked to teach a child's Sunday School class, for example, the children will not be getting the kind of teaching that they need, because the teacher's heart will not be in it. A leader should be willing and eager to serve the Church and his Lord.

What damage does this do to the church?

If the leaders in the Church are not willing leaders, they will not be effective in their leadership and the Church will suffer because of it.

What kind of leader does it produce?

It produces a very ineffective leader. A person that doesn

[dcalbreath]

"Twisitng the arm" is the worst way to recruit people. They get coerced into areas they are not called to and have no vision for, with disaster as a result.

The damage to the church is (1) ministries do not get carried out, because there is no true support or leadership, (2) others in the church are even more reluctant to get involved when they see leaders who are unwilling and unable to lead, and (3) those outside the church get the impression that Christians are incompetent and inept.

This approach does not produce leaders. A person who has to be compelled against their will to do something is not a leader. Leaders have vision and a desire to serve.

[djmclaren]

Q2. (5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader. What damage does this do to the church? What kind of leader does it produce?

1. Hebrews 5:4 "And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as [was] Aaron." Those whom God raises up are easily recognized in the fellowship of believers, His Spirit bearing witness with ours. This practice is a testament that there is a form but no life. We hve an institution with titles and structure and a form of religion but God is being ignored.

It seems as though our understanding of an elder is mistaken. It is not a job description we put in resumes for, or a popularity contest. A person who is an elder is already doing the work of an elder, this is his call and anointing. He/(she?) fits the description laid out in Q1. The title is superfluous, but they are ordained for official recognition giving some formality to it. It might be noted that the elders in a fellowship have authority insofar as those God has placed under their care. It is unrealistic that one could have care over many people.

2.Therefore "arm twisting" is a disturbing practice and speaks of a malaise in a Body. An elder need only be recognized not chosen. The damage is already done and simply exposes it, that they have left their first love.

3. I suppose if you force someone into leadership you are basically asking someone to lord it over the fellowship. The Spirit of God is not allowed His function so the fellowship will get what it has asked for, human leadership. I'm afraid God will withdraw.

[Sgt_Z_Squad]

2a.) (5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader. What damage does this do to the church?

2a.) It is not service to glorify God. "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:16

2b.) (5:2) What kind of leader does it produce?

2b.) Spiritless, stagnant, fruitless service.

[David Nichol]

Pastor Ralph: sorry for the missed participation. Have continued in the study but had to do some catching up since we left the cold country for a short trip to the south. Thank you for your ministry.

The lessons were most enligtening and inspiring. This morning during my devotions in 1Peter 5, the Lord spoke profoundly that I needed to talk with our two elders and pastor and encourage them in their leadership in the church. I was able to pray with one elder and also encourage the pastor. PTL for the revelation of this word at this time. Our elders have assumed their role with great deliberation, fasting, and prayer not only by them but by the fellowship of believers. They count it an honor to serve and for this we as a congregation our thankful. Pastor David also has a servant's heart. Only God has the authority to twist arms and he does that at times through experiences, circumstances. meditation and prayer. The responsibilities of servantude are too great for someone's election to be based on desperation, guilt, or any other reason but to bring glory to God.

[millie]

Some one who is forced to take leadership in a church, I myself do not think they would make a very good leader. They would not care one way or another how good a leader He/she make because they did not want the position anyway. That is a shame when you have to twist someone arms to do something for Jesus and they half step doing it for Him. But someone who want to do something for Jesus never get asked. I have seen it happen too often. Or they will serve once or twice and never come back again.

[Betty]

5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader.

I think it's shameful that a so-called born-again Christian would have to have his/her arm twisted to take part in the ministry of the church. Christ loved the church and gave his life for us; why should we do any less for Him? "Christians" who are not willing to take leadership roles need to get their priorities straight and get their focus back on Christ as a willing servant of His.

What damage does this do to the church?

The church is going to be as strong as its leaders. If we don't have committed leadership, then the members are not going to think it's important to have a role in the ministry of the church. A church that is based on the principles of Jesus Christ will survive because members will strive to be Christ-like in their service; otherwise, the church will fail.

What kind of leader does it produce?

I think arm-twisting will produce a leader who will not be committed to the position. If he/she does not accept the position (after much prayer) with love and compassion for those in the church, then they should not step forward. The worst thing a person can do is take a leadership role just to get self-glory, when we know that the glory belongs to the Lord for anything He enables us to do.

[Helen Spaulding]

Q2. (5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader. What damage does this do to the church? What kind of leader does it produce?

When we talk a person into taking a leadership position by telling them they will have practically nothing to do or be responsible for, we will get a leader who will sit on his/her hands and DO nothing, or worse, get the whole area that is their responsibility off on a personal whim and thus off the work of our God. You cannot have excellence--or the result of excellence--by a mediocre person in control of the work. They will not be praying about what God's will is in the circumstances, nor will they ask for help when uncertain what they should do. The church will limp along, crippled by lack of understanding and teamwork with the whole mission of the church. We've seen many such churches in our speaking with them about missionary work. You can tell the disordered church very quickly--and the outreach of that church is practically nil. The very atmosphere of that church tells us how dedicated their leaders--and members are!

[angelkat]

The church should never have to twist the arm of a person to get them to serve in the church. If you are twisting the arm to get them to be in the leadership role it will result in very poor leadership. The congergation will know and the fruits will also be baren. When ask to serve one needs to know and pray that is the area that they are called to serve. Not everyone is called to be leaders or teachers or missionary work. Some are called to serve in other ways, and if it is a forced ministry everyone suffers.

The damage to the church when someone is serving to please the pastor or a friend is not effective as when it is done for the love of the Lord and to give glory to God and to God only. Somtimes people put pressure on members just so the job will get done some way, some how and they don't worry about the fall out from the attitude of the server.

When the heart is not in right relationship to doing the will of the Lord and to doing his work that you haven't been called to there is no fruit. The church needs faithful servers and willing members to do what the Lord calls them to do in keeping and caring for the flock.

[Helen Williams]

It is wrong to have to twist a person's arm, service should be willing and out of love for God. No one had to twist Jesus' arm, He even washed the disciples' feet to show us the example of service. Better yet his service was unto death. I can see a breakdown of service in the church and one not doing their best. This can produce a self centered person and might even cause him or her to resent others in the church.

[aguilar-j]

PETER IS VERY CLEAR WHEN HE APPEALS TO THE ELDERS

AND THE YOUTH. "DO THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE WILLING"

CANNOT BE ANY CLEARER THAN THIS, THEREFORE ANY

THING OUT OF THE REALM OF WILLINGNESS IS DISTORTED

AND WILL NOT BARE THE FRUITS; AND BY YOUR FRUITS YOU

WILL BE KNOWN.

EVERYONE SUFFERS IF THE PERSON AT THE HEAD OF THE

FELLOWSHIP HAS HIDDING MOTIVES.

MAY GOD RICHLY BLESS YOU.

[cct1106]

The scripture says "Sheperd the flock of God which is among you, serving as oversers not by compulsion but willing, not for dishonest gain but eagerly." What this scripture and question means is that no man who's a overseer of his flock should not be in it for personal gain. They should want to be because their heart, mind, and soul should be pure of the Holy Spirit to lead their flock to righteousness and want to be sheperds willingly with a clea heart.

The damge would be of great multitude. They would be leading their flock in the wrong direction, have no compassion, caring, etc. The kind of leader this would produce would only be a false leader, a man-made leader (not called by God), someone who does not have the Holy Spirit.

[Dick Ross]

Church leaders should only serve because they feel the need, the calling, to be spiritual advisors to their group. It is a disservice to the group and the leader when they have been "volunteered" to a job they do not wish to have. I come from a small church that is often short of available resources. I have seen that strong arm tactics hurt the morale of the congregation, and often drive out good people that have become burned out from trying to fill in where they are not qualified, and/or do not have the time to do a decent job.

[Tom Nabors]

Q2. (5:2) What's wrong with the common practice in churches of "twisting a person's arm" to get him or her to serve as a church leader. What damage does this do to the church? What kind of leader does it produce?

These are great questions and may strike at the heart of many of the problems today's churches have. I know many people who have felt they have been "forced" to serve in some leadership capacity by peer pressure or pressure from church leaders. The result is usually programs that either never get off the ground or programs that are performed half-heartedly and actually have the negative result of turning participants off. More likely, if no one was stirred by the Holy Spirit to lead such a program in the first place, God did not intend it.

On the other hand, I also know of people who were simply reluctant to step out due to lack of confidence or of trying to be too humble (basically, misunderstanding what being humber means). Once they were encouraged and stepped out they found that indeed God had gifted them for the leadership task. So, I guess to give some the benefit of the doubt for "arm twisting", maybe sometimes the arm twisting is with this in mind.

[kas]

When your arm is twisted there's no joy in doing it. It promotes a grudging spirit. I am currently being manipulated by guilt and a sense of duty by my pastor to teach the children while he preaches. These children are too young to teach. It would be babysitting. If God called me to teach it's to teach, not babysit. I almost broke down and did it but I realized that if I did do it, I would not be happy and the kids would sense it. No one would benefit and I would probably end up looking for another church. If a church was filled with grudging doers the morale would prevent growth and probably result in a dead church. The leader would have no flock to lead.

[Helen]

If an arm has to be twisted for eldership, it is evident there is a lack of real enthusiasm and vision concerning the work.

This means the church will not ssee those qualities in leaders, and therefore will lose enthusiasm themselves. They mey leave the church, or not put in the effort required in individual responsibilities, or start acting on automatic pilot themselves. Excitement, first love, enthusiasm will all decline as vision falls away. Services may continue bur little growth will be forthcoming. New Christians may not be discipled effectively, and some members may leave and seek a more dynamic home church.

Leaders are produced who are "doing the church a favour", not taking seriously their responsibilities as shepherds, not putting time, prayer and thought into vision or people, and not inspiring anyone by their example, and generally having a deleterious effect on the congregation.

[dantanc]

We persuade somebody to takeup resposible position in the church so that we have in that position whom we like and listens to us. If that person has God given talent and obedient to God's directions, it could work for the edification of the church. But if an elder is simply forced to do that job, it would be detrimental to the church as well as for that believer. Willing to work in God's field is personal calling and obedience.

[June]

THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE GIFT AND EXERCISE IT ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL.

THE CHURCH WILL NOT GROW AND WILL BECOME STAGNANT.

PRODUCES A LEADER THAT BECOMES GREEDY, COMPROMISES GOD'S WORD, RIGHTEOUS STANDARDS, AND KINGDOM PRINCIPLES. THEY SEEK POWER.

[annk]

If a person doesn't want the job than he isn't going to do much while in office. I think this attitude damages the church. If it can't be filled willinglythen it is best to leave the position vacant for awhile --- in time the right person will come forth to fill the position. Being put in unwillingly does not produce a good leader --- more damage can be done than good.

[linda bass]

A person should be willing to serve in a position of leadership without being badgered into it. If a person is talked into a position they don't really want or feel called to, then they will end up doing that particular job in a half hearted way. If someone accepts a leadership position out of obligation rather than from the heart,they will not be a very effective leader. Every once in awhile someone tries to get me to a worker in children's church. However, I feel it is more important for me to hear God's word as my pastor shares his sermon during Sunday morning service.

Another thing is,sometimes a person will be in charge of a ministry and will feel a need to leave that ministry but can't because there is nobody willing to take their place.

Our choir director tried to retire awhile back. Our pastor asked her if she would serve as an interim choir director until they found someone else to full the position. Well, she has been the interim choir director for about 3 years now.

[Linda Stanley]

When a persons arm gets twisted to serve as a church leader,they feel"well I guess I need to do my part,"as the other person said they have served their time,even though they are not thinking of what I already do in the church..Instead of being roped into leadership in the church,you should be willing and able to serve out of love not force.One who is not willing to serve,I would say puts a person under a lot of pressure.When you are under pressure,you dont really make right decissions for the church.You can not fullfill your duties as a leader.You are not comfortable in what you are doing.Sometimes too much pressure on a person in duties of the church will also cause them to leave a church because they dont know how to really get out of so much responsibility that has been added.

We should always remember:~~ consider a person who is willing and able to serve,and wants to serve out of love,so our church can grow in the fullfillment in Jesus Christ and be a healthy church,lead by the Holy Spirit of God in us and for us ...AMEN

[Berachah]

Arm twisting to get someone to lead is not scriptural. A leader should be chosen by God and prompted by the Holy Spirit. The motive is wrong in the person who is pushed into service for the Lord. He is doing it for a person and does not feel that God has chosen him. That person is seen by others in the church as a relectant leader and not a good example to the flock. There will be a lack of love and compassion in that person.

[Kim E.]

In 1 Timothy 3:8-13 there are some clear guidelines for choosing a leader in the Church and the results thereof. The Scripture specifically says they should be tested first in some initial assignment to see how they do. There are clear qualifications for leaders. It seems that a lot of the qualifications for leaders may be overlooked in an attempt to just get people to serve no matter what. There are definate results to look for when the right people are serving, appreciation of the congregation, boldness of ministry, a deep, wonderful sense of God at work with you. Strong arming someone into serving is not going to produce the kind of results that the Scriputure describes for us. There may be men and women who are unaware of their spiritual gifts and it cannot hurt to help them to discover them but that person must choose where to employ the gifts with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If you just push people into whatever service you need them in you end up with undevoted or less devoted people than Scripture calls for. You run the risk of having some very unhappy people serving and finding it all unfullfilling. This will flow through to the church body as well if the members are not functioning cheerfully and painlessly.