Q3. Preventing Power-Mongering

[Pastor Ralph]

Q3. (5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers? From limiting a pastor's authority? What's the danger here? From testing a person before bestowing authority? How can this be difficult? How can we deal with this serious problem properly?

[Sgt_Z_Squad]

3a.) (5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers?

3a.) Through a study of Jesus' leaderhip style having a servant's heart.

3b.) & 3c.) (5:3) From limiting a pastor's authority? What's the danger here?

3b.) Limiting the pastor's power is not biblical. 3c.) Having a figurehead of a pastor will be a person who may be in fear of preaching the Word. "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of techers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3

3d.) & 3e.) (5:3)

[Helen Spaulding]

Q3. (5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers? From limiting a pastor's authority? What's the danger here? From testing a person before bestowing authority? How can this be difficult? How can we deal with this serious problem properly?

We need to go to God in prayer when there is a need for a leader position to be filled. Search for a person who is "sold out" to God--willing to go where He commands, do what He commands, and is willing to keep himself in the background, always lifting up God to His glory! Where do we find such a person? That's why we need first of all to go to God in sincere prayer! Without His go-ahead, we will fail! We must not limit the pastor's authority, however. As someone has said, that sets us up to censure the message that perhaps God wants us to hear--not just something to "make us feel good!" This can be difficult, especially if the pastor already thinks only he has the true Word of God! Sometimes, pastors think this is their church, and the parishioners are only people he/she has to put up with. This type pushes and shoves and belittles the congregation. Pastors move on to other churches (usually), but the people who have lived, worked in and built their church will remain. It behooves the pastor to believe himself a servant of God--sent to serve the people--not the other way around. Easy? Of course not. Especially if he/she will not listen to the concerns of the congregation.

There is no way to deal with this scratchy problem except prayer!

[angelkat]

In the church system there needs to always be check and balance. The elders, pastor and anyone else in power are subject to the congregation in their actions and what and how they handle their power. That is the one nice thing about having a board that handles money and ruling authority in the church. If a pastor is following the leading of the Holy Spirit they usually don't pose a problem, but when they start putting their needs and desires ahead of what is best for the body of Christ; then you have a problem. It is always dangerous to have people in authority who have to have their way and aren't willing to compromise and work for the good of the church body. It can and usually is difficult to get a situation in hand once it has gotten out of control. The best way I believe to deal with difficult situations is to go to scripture and look for the answer. All come under the words and instruction from God. If the pastor or elder is not willing to listen to one on one then you should take two and if that doesn't work then it needs to be brought before the whole church body and dealt with in a godly way. That is why it is nice to have regular church business meetings to keep all problems aired out and in front of everyone. Always be sure to pray, pray and pray some more before taking action to be sure you are doing the will of the Lord and not something personal.

[millie]

I Believe when there is a Pastor Position open and it need to be filled I think you need to go to God in prayer and pray over it. If this is the right person for to pastor that Church.

[AngelOnLine]

Q3. (5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers?

Even though the elders and pastors are leaders in the Church, they should never be given unquestionable power. All decisions should be brought before the church members and voted on.

From limiting a pastor's authority?

The Pastor should have a certain amount of power in the church since he

[Helen Williams]

Elders and pastors have a responsibility of servant leadership, if they are to follow the examples set by Jesus.

LIMITING A PASTOR'S AUTJORITY

If a pastor is a truly called man of God he is not going to abuse that which has been entrusted to him by God. He will shepherd that flock according to the word of Word. I feel he shouldn't ask them to do that he would not do. There could be a division in the congregation if one abuse his or her power.

Whatever problem arrive in the church, we should pray about it collectively. WE can look at the problem from the word of God. As the saying goes, "What would Jesus do?" I feel where there is always confusion God is not in the midst.

A lot of issues can be settle if we would not let this flesh take over and work in the spirit.

[dcalbreath]

The issue of power depends to some extent on the church governance structure. There are pros and cons for both pastor-led and elder-led churches (I have ben in both). Solid communication about concerns always helps if all parties are really open to doing what God wants. Prayer is essential (what? it's gotten so bad that we have to pray?). Sometimes, there is nothing a person can do but walk away sorrowfully.

[cct1106]

Do not put them on pedestals. Why? Because no man is greater than the Father. They should live as examples to their flock. We should not, no, we do not have the authority to test and judge anyoe. The test will come from God. We can, however, express our concerns because as Christians we know what is expected from each and everyone of us.

[Dick Ross]

The church committee, the elders, lay leaders and congregation probably should work as checks and balances with each other to insure that Jesus is the leader, and we ALL are humble followers. Limiting a pastors authority would not properly address the issue. Many times, as our leader, the pastor must wrestle with tough issues. To keep him/her handcuffed would make the problem solving even more difficult. Having the right pastor is the solution. As a Methodist, our District Super decides who pastors each church. Our prayer is that we are sent the right leader when changes are made. I believe, therefore, that it is imperative for the district leader to know the needs of each of the groups in their charge, and match up a pastor best suited for each group. Weather to give a pastor authority should also be decided by those appointing pastors to churches.

[aguilar-j]

THE WORLD IS THE WORLD

AND THE SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT

IF WE WANT TO WORSHIP GOD

WE MUST DO IT IN THE SPIRIT

THE PERSON THAT HAS BEEN CALLED

TO DO THE PASTORING IS ONLY A SERVANT

AS I HAVE THE POWER TO STOP THE SON

FROM MOVING THROUGH THE HEAVENS.

WE ARE PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH THAT COME

TO WORSHIP AND MINISTER AND WE CAN SENSE

A CHRISTIAN THAT WANTS TO OVERTAKE BY OTHER

MEANS AWAY FROM THE WORD OF GOD AND WE

DO NOT STAND FOR.

MAY GOD RICHLY BLESS YOU.

[sunilbernard]

Q3. (5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers? From limiting a pastor's authority? What's the danger here? From testing a person before bestowing authority? How can this be difficult? How can we deal with this serious problem properly?

Those who are serving the church should be paid according to the work they do. According to the responsiblities, the Pastor should be suitably paid. The elders or committee members should be thoroughly screened before giving them posts in the committee. Both Pastors and elders should serve with humility and not seek to divide and rule the church, which many pastors do. Limiting a pastor's authority will lead to division in the church. A divided church will fail to further the interest of the gospel.

We cannot appoint elders on probation as in secular practice. If they fail and we remove them, then again the church will be divided. That's why its better to do a thorough study of the elders before appointing them. Dealing with this kind of problem is only through prayer. People who are really interested in the growth of the church should get down on their knees and pray for guidance of the Holy Spirit regarding this problem.

[Tom Nabors]

Q3. (5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers? From limiting a pastor's authority? What's the danger here? From testing a person before bestowing authority? How can this be difficult? How can we deal with this serious problem properly?

I don't believe limiting a pastor's authority is necessarily a good approach. If you limit that authority, someone else in the church must be given it to fulfill a requirement of the church. Before you know it, you have church governance by committee with no chairman and nothing getting done.

Testing a person can be difficult if there are no ordination structures in place. I guess, in this case, the more hierarchical denominations such as the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal church, the various brances of the Presbyterian church may have an advantage. They have strict rules and checks and balances for ordinations of pastors and church leaders. I'm not saying they don't have problems also, but in the case of bestowing authority, they do have some fairly rigorous filters and screening processes.

[Betty]

(5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers?

By reminding them that everyone in the church is just as important in God's eyes as they are, and they have no authority to set themselves up as being powerful. They should be leaders by example and keep all business before the church, not doing anything under-handed that could cause conflict. In our church, we have a monthly business meeting where the members vote on any major issues involving church affairs; therefore, all the members who attend the meeting are informed of activities by the Pastor and Deacons, and the church has an opportunity to vote on the matter.

We should be in constant prayer for our Pastor and Deacons (or Elders) because it's no easy task to be a serving, committed leader.

From limiting a pastor's authority? What's the danger here?

If a Pastor is fully committed to humbly serve the people in his church, it should not be necessary to limit his authority. However, a Pastor should not count the church as "his" and think that the people are there to serve him. God said, "I will build my church." The danger in limiting a Pastor's authority could lead to discontent and distrust between himself and the members.

From testing a person before bestowing authority? How can this be difficult?

It would be difficult to test a person in church concerning how they would handle authority; but they need a clear explanation of what is expected of them and how the church will have the right to challenge them if they disagree with something the leader is doing. The most important thing to do is pray for the leader to commit his or her life to serving God and the people in the best way he or she can, with God's help.

How can we deal with this serious problem properly?

Don't just look the other way or sweep it under the rug; and by all means, don't leave your church. When a problem comes up like this, it must be addressed. Possibly, the other leaders in the church could have a meeting with the person, pray with him or her and let them know that there is indeed a problem with the way they are handling things. They need to be reminded that they are there to serve God and His people and must answer to the people, but ultimately answer to God. Most of all, we must, as so many others have said, "PRAY, PRAY, PRAY!"

[kas]

First pray about it maybe fast too. Scripture tells us to confront the person, if they don't listen, take a witness and another witness and if they still don't behave, tell the head of the church. If all that fails, find another church. The danger lies in trying to penetrate the ego of a power hungry person. They'll deny it and look at you like you're the problem.

[Helen]

We need to stop powermongering before it starts by right selection of personnel for various roles. It is very important that a church select the right person. The attitude to service needs to be wel known. The criteria of a man whose family function very well (1 Tim 3:4) is probably the safest, as if his family do well, so will the church family. If there is a problem in the family it may well manifest in the church. Yet several brilliant pastors have had tear-away kids.His approach to accountability is an essential ingredient for the leaders of a church. They need to be those who regularly seek advice from mentors, who seek to learn from others, and are not content with their own view entirely. The board needs to be strong, mature, visionary people.

All board members need to be people known to submit to the Holy Spirit. Then they will consistently pry for and seek unity and encourage the pastor in his plans.

Personality clashes will be the danger.

Pastors and elders need to be in agreement before bestowing authority. They all need to be men of humility and men of prayer and see each other as a team. They are adding appropriate people to the team. They need to be in agreement about who should fulfil a new role, to be really able to pray and discuss matters together.

It takes time, prayer, and love to build the right church structure under God.

The church needs to ascertain that the Biblical criteria of an attitude of enthusiastic service, teamwork (accountability), and the abililty to manage family life in an exemplary manner are maintained for all personnel.

[June]

HOLDING THEM TO ACCOUNTABILITY AND HOLDING MEETINGS TOO DISCUSS THE BUSINESS OF THE CHURCH. THE PASTOR CAN NOT DO ALL THE MINISTRIES OF THE CHURCH AND GOD KNOWS THAT SO THIS IS WHY HE HAS OTHERS WITH SPECIAL GIFTS THAT APPOINTED TO OFFICES.

THOSE GREEDY FOR POWER DOMINATE THOSE THEY ARE TO SERVE BY USING THEIR AUTHORITY IN EXCESS.

THE PASTOR MUST LEAD WITH HUMILITY AND EXAMPLE. HE MUST HAVE LOVE FOR THE WORD.

SATAN WILL RAISE UP FALSE TEACHERS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND INFILTRATE WITH UNBIBLICAL DOCTRINE. SUCH PEOPLE DRAW PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD'S WORD & DISTORT THE GOSPEL. THE CHURCH TODAY HAS NO RIGHT TO DIMINISH THE REQUIREMENTS THAT GOD SET FORTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. LIVE BY EXAMPLE, EXAMPLE, EXAMPLE!!!

[dantanc]

Openess in church administration, keeping the members fully informedof the church affairs, generally does not lead to " church elders" seeking power for themselves. Congregation should always pray for their pastors and elders, so the they are always under God's guidance. In organised churches this is not much of a problem, but single man oriented and owned churches, that single person would not like to be scrutinised, claiming God's personal call to him. It is always better to lay down the resposibilities, initially.

Pastor's authority should never be limited, but he is also resposible to God and to the church elders. The elders should recognise a problem in its earliest stages and prayerfully look for a solution, without sacrificing any christian living guidelines from the bible.

[Linda Stanley]

I believe power-mongers are more lead by their flesh than of the Holy Spirit.They dont wait on what God tells them to do.Power -mongers care more of themself and not Gods flock.

They think they are well on their way to the "top" but it wont be long before they "flop".

I have never came up against a pastor or a leader who seeks power in the wrong way and wants to exercise their authority by force.This would be very difficult to have to deal with in a church.The ones that follow also suffer in many ways.

If I reconize such a person~~I know my Chief Shepherd is Jesus Christ,so I would focus on that and pray for guidance and direction in this matter.God always comes through for his people.

Some power-mongers can make a mess of things.I believe power-mongers will soon learn "Gods Way,and not theirs.God has his way in humbling us through our mistakes.Some learn ,some dont.

Pride often keeps us from understanding what God wants of us.

~~continued with question 4 ~~~

[Berachah]

If a church takes care of the pastor and meets his needs through salary and benefits he will not be harrassing the flock for more. If a pastor always needs more and seems to have an eye for money, he is not the kind of leader that should lead in a church. His priorities are confused. He has lost his focus. This is why a candidate for ministry in a church must clearly understand the standards that is expected from him and much prayer must go into the selection. This is the point of weakness in churches. It is easy just to want to fill a position or be taken up with personality and popularity. It is of necessity to spend much time in prayer and that there be agreement among the members of the church.

[annk]

There has to be guidelines in place to help prevent this. To limit authority too much also limits the work of God. It is sometimes difficult to test a person before bestowing authority, as in our church a newly ordained minister is settled into his first charge by a commitee of the conference court making a decision based on the wishes of an Ordinand and the needs of a Charge looking for a minister. Much prayer and reflection is taken before the final decision is atained by those involved. It is important that the guidelines set down are followed as closely as possible. No overstepping various church levels. Trust in one another is also important. Prayer and guidance from the Lord should abound. Sitting down and talking about the problem before it develops into a full blown catastrophe is essential.

[Kim E.]

I don't think we can tell anyone how to act, or what to do, or how to behave or what to think. We can point out what it is they need to do and the results which may follow it they do not want to do it. Only the Lord commands. If we read what the Scripture says about choosing leaders and what attitudes they should have we should be able to avoid these power-mongering persons. In our church we are looking for a pastor, the pastor search committee has specific criteria from the Scripture that they are looking for in this man and woman that will be coming to be our pastor and wife. I have confidence in the committee being led of God in the choosing of our new pastor and wife. This is something you have to leave to God. God will choose this man and woman. I don't think we can start getting into limiting the pastors authority, this definately will cause problems in the church. The church will be focused on the pastor instead of on Jesus and the cross. We do need to test people before giving them more to do. It should be clear to all members of the church from Scripture that we all have gifts and we need each other to function properly. It seems that if anyone should come to strive or compete in the church for leadership that it should be pointed out to them that that is the way the world works but not the church. They should be given Scripture to read to address the problems, a sermon should be given, the Bible class should address these issues from Scripture to everyone. We are all one body with many members and we should all learn these things together no matter who or how many may need imediate attention to these matters. I wouldn't single them out unless it were an extremly dire problem. Jesus got all His diciples together to deal with this problem. We should be together also when dealing with problems.

[PressThrough]

Q3. (5:3) How can we best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers? From limiting a pastor's authority? What's the danger here? From testing a person before bestowing authority? How can this be difficult? How can we deal with this serious problem properly?

To lessen the temptation for elders and pastors from being power-mongers, maybe we could follow the government's example, (God established that too), but instead of left and right wings, the whole church is in One Accord. By having power's over them by which decisions must be agreed upon and then taken to the congregation for a vote in which the majority of the vote is what is. Have a treasurer/bookkeeper in charge of the funds, in which they distribute the wages, and also has somebody over them to make sure of what they are doing. And any funds other than wages to whomever, are brought before the Church Counsel for approval.

This sounds like a good idea to me, but a danger, which actually is a blessing, is that those overseer's and elder's and pastor's would move on to someplace else if they couldn't be in charge of everything. And that's what is difficult, loosing people, but then again it is a blessing to loose the wolf in sheeps clothing.

The suggestion writen here is a way to deal with this problem. The only way this can be complicated is if the people in charge do not have good intentions. There's only one way to find out right? Well besides direct revelation knowledge from The Holy Spirit. I mean, some people can be very hard to read, ex. appearing to be transparent, but how do you really know unless you have a close relationship with them. Even then, people are so cunning and baffeling that I don't put my complete trust in any of them. God only has my complete trust.

[peggysue]

put in leaders that are humble that are willing to love and serve the congregation,not money hungry but want to serve people

[heatherdills]

We can best keep elders and pastors from being power-mongers by making them accountable for their decisions. From limiting a pastor's authority by establishing a chain of command. The danger here is that they may not take their accountability to God seriously. Testing a person before bestowing authority can be difficult because power and authority can change some people's attitiude. We can deal with this serious problem properly by cutting back on some of the responsibilities in a position under the situation is under control.