Pastor Ralph Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? The purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb is an extension of His attribute as a just God. He can do no less than to punish for sin. At the final judgment a just God cannot mete out an opportunity for retribution, rehabilitation or determent; no, it will be time for justice. Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? At judgment the Lamb will exact justice because it will be time for the consequences of disobedience (sin). The Almighty God will, at judgment, show Himself to be just, as the full measure of the penalty of sin is meted out to those who disregarded conscience, instruction, teaching and preaching to do things the way they wanted. How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? In understanding Christ and the Messiah of Judgment, it is important for us to appreciate the love that the Father and the Lamb have for man is so strong and it is not the will of God that any should perish at judgement. All man have been given the opportunity to accept Jesus as the Son of God and repent of their sins. The Apostle Peter reminds us, "The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent." (2 Peter 3:9, NLT). The Christ who gave His life, so that we can have eternal life will be the Messiah of Judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hall Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) .....SIN.....LOVE..JUSTICE......Three crosses on a hill called Golgotha..The cross that bore our Savior standing between SIN and JUSTICE.....On the one side, an unrepentant sinner(thief)on the other a repentant sinner (thief)JESUS, the sinless lamb,obedient to the Father even unto death...death on the cross...dying for the sins of the whole world in between the two(John 3:16)and .John 14:6....JESUS said "I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, no man cometh to the Father but by me." What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? Restoration "Behold I make all things new"... Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly?Lambs portray harmless innocence...rather than the POWERFUL Sovereignty of GOD..(Like the softness of a mother's love compared to the sternness of a father's love) How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? I'm not sure we will understand, this side of heaven....any more than we understood our father's discipline when we were children..Remember the old saying "This is going to hurt me more than it does you"? Edited May 28, 2020 by Wayne Hall Clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? The purpose of punishment is that God's justice and righteousness demands it. In Jer 9:24 we read about three chief attributes of God that are required before there can be any love or reverence for Him. These are His lovingkindness (steadfast love), that is His readiness to show grace and mercy, and His justice and righteousness. He hates all manner of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19), and because of His justice and righteousness God cannot allow sin to go unpunished. There has to be retribution, which is not the requirement in today’s society. Here the emphasis is more on deterrence, incapacitation, rehabilitation, and reparation. However, in His great mercy and love, God has provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. But there are limits to His mercy. Isaiah 55:6-7 tells us to turn to the LORD while He can still be found. We are to give up our evil ways and evil thoughts, and He will be merciful and forgive us our sins. It is more troubling to have Jesus exacting justice than the thought of God acting justly, because there is no fear of God in today’s world. It not until we have come to recognise God’s holiness and sovereignty and the understanding of our own sinfulness that we will learn to fear God (Prov 1:7-9). I think we will find in this age of information that knowledge is plentiful, but wisdom is scarce. Wisdom is a basic attitude that affects every aspect of life. It is not about how much we understand and know. It is about how much we respect and honour God. To live in awe of His power, and to obey His Word. Faith in God should be the controlling principle for our understanding of the world, our attitudes, and our actions. The bottom line is - Trust in God and He will make you truly wise. It is important to have a well-developed and balanced understanding of Christs’ judgment – of unbelievers and believers. Unbelievers may think of Jesus (the Lamb) as a softer, gentler face of God, one that is not stern and angry, but all love, all-forgiving. Romans 6:15-17, tell a different story. The fury that people on earth will flee is the fury of 'the Lamb', Jesus Christ, just as much as it is His Father's. There is no soft picture of Christ here. All of this was predicted for centuries and Jesus Himself spoke about it in Matthew 24:29-30, "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.” John sat with Jesus a couple of days before His death, and heard Jesus foretell the day when He would come back. Believers judgment is found in 2 Cor 5:10, where we read that all believers, must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, and that each one may receive what is due to him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. This judgment seat of Christ is not to determine our salvation, that has already been done by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf, but about receiving rewards for faithfully serving our Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menberu Adane Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 If we believe in God the creator of the world as we read it in Genesis, no doubt that we have to admit and believe to what He tells, plans and warns us. Then, as Isaiah admitted in 64:8, He is our father and maker. And if we believe Him, we need to know that there is rebellion and betrayal by Satan, who from the beginning defied God and exalted himself foolishly. This has made God pay the price to save us not to go astray again, as Adam went astray in eden, by giving Jesus and Jesus obeying the will of His Father redeemed us. What love and Truth do we need to believe other than these accounts and myriads of miracles and heralding nature in heaven, on earth and under it. Disobeying by Adam led us to wrath of God and obeying of Jesus has led us to eternal life and receiving of Holyspirit. If the warning of punishment cannot deter us from sin what love other than Jesus' who died on the cross would deter us from sinning. At least all humans know that, heard and are seeing someone disappearing through death, we are destined to live short life on earth. Let the curtain be removed from those who are short of these truths. The Messaih, Jesus, is the ultimate sacrifice that God gave to all humans. This was because of the rebellion, Satan, and we are to choose between life and brimstone. Let this truth be lighted up in the hearts of those who are fooled by the thief who came to rob their lives. In the name of Jesus, I pray, Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 I think that the punishment that the Lamb meted out is one of rehabilitation and a deterrence. I have never thought of the Lamb exacting justice more troubling to me then the idea of Almighty God acting justly. I know that justice will come no matter who executes it. I think that I have always thought of Christ as being my Judge in the eternal life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosesSole Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 12:36 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? According to the notes, it indicates the the punishment is hell. Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? I think most people have come to view the Lamb of God, as a gentle creature who allowed himself to be crucified for the sins of Man. It's hard to imagine such a selfless figure doling out punishments but I assume if one were to face Jesus on Judgment Day, we'd only be worried about the punishment if we were guilty of horrible sins. How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? Jesus is God, and at the end of the day, we must accept this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosegarden Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 12:36 PM, Pastor Ralph said: Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? a. It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. (Heb.9:27) If we do not accept Christ and what He did at Calvary in paying for our sin while we are alive, eternal judgment and punishment awaits us. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom. 6:23) If we receive His sacrifice for our sin we receive His wonderful grace and gift of eternal life. b. Retribution - punishment; It will be too late for Rehabilitation; Deterrence - Justice must prevail. c. Because God provided a Lamb and if He was rejected, there is no more sacrifice for sin, only final judgment. d. The Father sent His Son into the world as a propitiation for the sin of the whole world. Jesus came first as the Lamb of God, gentle, loving, compassionate, merciful, gracious and gave His life as ransom for whoever would receive Him and gives them the gift of eternal life. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18) When Jesus comes again he will come as Judge. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. (2Cor. 5:10) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 9:36 AM, Pastor Ralph said: Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? 1. What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? The purpose is Retribution, for rejecting God's loving gift of Salvation through believing in and receiving the Lord Jesus Christ, His Son....the only way to enter into eternal life and the presence of our Holy God Who cannot abide sin of any kind. 2. Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? We think of lambs as rather dumb animals who are defenseless and need to be led and cared for. Knowing personally Jesus who is our gentle lamb of God and loving Shepherd with whom we are in relationship is difficult to think of Him as Warrior meting out retribution. The name of "Almighty God" seems less personal, more distant and fierce, as in the Old Testament (before Jesus revealed His heart of love and tenderness) hurling fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah and destroying all inhabitants in the flood of Noah. 3. How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of Judgment? If there were no Judgment or consequence for sin, there would be no need of a Savior.....to save us from what? God is a God of love but also a God of justice. When we become aware of the fierceness of God toward wickedness and evil, our salvation becomes even more precious....the awareness of "being snatched from the burning fires of hell" leaves no room for a blase life or a ho hum attitude toward the Cross and His suffering for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Mc Daniel Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? The purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb is receiving their consequence for sin. Those that refuse to accept a way out of punishment must now pay the price. Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? The wrath of God can be seen as Retribution or punishment inflicted on individual as vengeance for their sin. Each person has the opportunity to be rehabilitated by accepting Jesus as the Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. John 3:16 Therefore, Retribution is necessary when the refusal to adhere to John 3:36 which is a deterrence to the wrath of God. Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? A Lamb symbolize meekness and humility, and an Almighty God symbolize power and strength. We see the Lamb (Jesus) as love, our protector, intercessor and king not someone that spurring Wrath. How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? It’s vital to understand that Christ is the Messiah of judgment. I might not clearly understand the How, “the wrath of the Lamb” work, I accept by faith, just as I accept Him for my salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLS Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? Colossians 1:15-20 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. He is a Just God and without punishment of sins, there is no justice and righteousness. Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? I suppose it is difficult to fully understand why Jesus who has no sin has to be punished for the sin of the world in order to restore justice. How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? In Colossians 1: 16 clearly says that all things have been created through him and for him. So, God the Father has given Christ all authority to judge the living and the dead and when Christ return, he would come as a reining King to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). Q. What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? A. As a just God, He loves and even died for us. However, He will not tolerate sin and thus punishes sinners so that people will fear Him and shun sin, otherwise, each will receive appropriately what is deserved. Q. Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? A. Some can not reconcile Jesus exacting justice because He is a loving Jesus that loved to the extend of dying for me and others. Q. How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? A. It is important to know that Jesus Christ, the Messiah loves us so much but we need to know that He is a just God and will not tolerate but punish sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lottie Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 The purpose is retribution and deterrence. Retribution for the sinners who refuse to accept Jesus as the Lamb of God who died on the cross for our sins. They have to pay for what they did; God hates sin and everyone will get what they deserve. It is a deterrent for those of us who have accepted Him. We know that He is watching us and we want to please hIm because we love Him. But the sinners or those who refuse to believe will keep on sinning. Some like Bertrand Russell could not accept the fact that Jesus believed in wrath or punishment for sinners. They think that He should be more loving and kind and give them a chance. They cannot reconcile the fact that God sent Jesus to die for us on the cross. We cannot fully grasp why He came if we do not accept the reason behind it. He came to die in our place as a sacrifice for sins. The whole Bible is about Jesus and why He came. He was not just a teacher; He was the Lamb of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Day 8 Meditation (Revelation 7:9-12). Why do you think worship before the throne is such a theme of Revelation? Worship before the throne is such a theme of Revelation because it is the crown jewel of the saints, the culmination of our journey before we enter into eternity. It is worship in gratitude. What are the implications of this band of white-robed saints before the throne for our relationships with minority peoples in our own cities and countries? The implications of the band of white-robed saints before the throne for our relationships with minority people in our own cities and countries show us that in Heaven, before the throne of God, we are all equal. With God all are equal in status, there is no minority. How dare we no longer act? How must we act towards these who are different, but very much the same as we? It would be good practice to begin what we will be living for all eternity, accepting each other as God accepts us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godswriter Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 Day 7 Meditation (Revelation 6:15-17; 14:9-11). What is the purpose of the punishment meted out by the Lamb? Retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence? Why is having a Lamb (Jesus) exacting justice more troubling to us than the idea of Almighty God acting justly? How important to a rounded understanding of Christ is the Messiah of judgment? The purpose of the punishment that is being handed out is for the enemies of the Lord who choose to reject Him and serve the beast instead because they don't want to accept the fact that they need the Savior to save them from their sins. They would rather die in their sins and be eternally separated from God for the sake of pleasure. I believe the true reason for the punishment was none other than retribution. Also as all of us the Lord cannot tolerate sin in any form in heaven because He is holy. I believe it is troubling because a Lamb is more humble and meek while the Almighty God is associated with power and strength. It is extremely important since Jesus is part of the trinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Follower Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 To bring final justice to God's creation. Deterrence to those who will listen. Retribution to those whose hearts are hard. We think of Lambs as gentle, innocent. It is hard for us to think of wrath as pure. We get anger wrong all the time. Jesus is full of grace and truth. If we err in our thinking one way or the other, we get it wrong. An angry, vengeful God, or a big Grandpa in the sky. Neither accurate. We then will think speak and act wrongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFLamb520 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 The suffering in the presence of the Lamb is referring to those who follow the beast. The torture will be forever and done for vindication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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