Helen Williams Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Yes I believe we can be a disobedient disciples. We are growing spiritually everyday. We have not reached perfection. We all are sinners, but not a bondage to sin. The desciples that walk with Jesus daily had their inperfections but lived to be great in the work of the Lord. Gideon had a choice. God created us as free-will individuals and we are free to make choices whether they are good or bad. We have choices and trying to make the right ones can be difficult at times. Let's be the person God created us to be and make the right choice according to his word. God wants us to make a choice this day who we will serve. It would be great if we all would choose God!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara Momphard Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 2. How are we to obey the commandment to "Honor your father and your mother" in the kind of situation Gideon finds himself? God is to always come first; even above our families. He did what was right. In fact, he saved his family from worshipping other gods. What justification does Gideon have for his action? (Matthew 10:37). Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? I looked up the meaning of disciple and here is what I found: Disciple - a scholar, sometimes applied to the followers of John the Baptist (Matt. 9:14), and of the Pharisees (22:16), but principally to the followers of Christ. A disciple of Christ is one who (1) believes his doctrine, (2) rests on his sacrifice, (3) imbibes his spirit, and (4) imitates his example (Matt. 10:24; Luke 14:26, 27, 33; John 6:69). Another one: 1 : one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another: as a : one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ's followers according to the Gospel accounts b : a convinced adherent of a school or individual I may be sticking my neck out here but; I think because of human nature that a disciple can on occasion be disobedient. There can also be conserquences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara Momphard Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Sorry, my last post was for questions 2 and 3. I will get the hang of this soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Huang Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 yes a person can be a disobedient disciple, Being a disciple does'nt necessarily mean a perfect disciple because we are all human and liable to stray away from the true path even though we believe in the gospel message, We can only hope that God in his great mercy will forgive us every time we trangress provided we are sincere in our repentance and try to live our lives according to his wishes. Gideon did have a choice to obey God or not He chose to obey God and thereby helped to save the Israelites from the Midianites. We too have a choice to obey God or not. But we often choose not to because of human frailty under social pressure. Let us pray for God's strength to help us obey his commandments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynette Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Q3. Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? a. As long as we are human we will occasionally slip and fall or be "disobedient". b. That doesn't mean we are less in God's eyes. It's when we habitually practice a disobedient lifestyle is what God will not accept. c. Gideon had a choice to either tear down the idol or leave it as it is. His conscience told him to obey, and he did. d. We have choices because God has given every person free will. He does not make us do anything like robots; He would rather we choose to respond to Him if we have the choice. KISS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Stanley Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Q3. Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? Yes,One can be a "disobedient disciple,for there are times we do not obey God in what He wants us to do.There are times we do things our way, on our own or in the flesh thinking it to be a better way,or we even want to take the shorter route,and then we dont learn what God wants to accomplish in our life.I would say we are not anoxymoron not inless we continue on being disobedient to God.That would be a very foolish thing to do.Our lives would be a mess if we dont follow God and let Him be our guide in our life.yes Gideon had a choice.He could have not obeyed God and know telling what could have happened.Even his father Joash saw who was the true God,when Gideon tore down the altaf of the false god.everyone saw this the next morning Baal's altar was nothing,and the god was nothing,and could do nothing.Our God can do all things.Nothing is impossible for God.He is :Jehovah Elyon"The Lord Most High!!.We have choices to make in our life everyday.we must pray and put god first and ask Him humbly for his help.Our God is a Mighty God.Amen Blessings Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Bohlander Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 I think it is possible to be a disobedient disciple for a time. None of us is perfect. But this should not be used as an excuse for disobedience. Let he who stands beware lest he fall. Gideon had choices. We all have choices. God gave us a free will and it stays with us after conversion. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 I really enjoyed reading everyones answers, but I found myself within the 1% who believes that you can not be a disobedient disciple Anyone who trusts Christ & follows Him is a disciple, But if a person, say Gideon, did not have faith in Christ to trust in His word & does as He commands then he probably wasn't a disciple in the first place. Gideon had a choice as we all do. We can take the narrow or the wide gate, I choose the narrow, "which leadeth to life," this does not mean we lead a certain kind of life to gain salvation, for this would mean salvation through a human effort, this means that once we entered spirtual life by faith in Christ, we must lead a life of obedience to enjoy spiritual life in the fullest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjcollin Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Q3. Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? The Bible has plenty to say about servants who are obedient and servants who are disobedient. You could be a disobedient disciple, but with all the consequences why would you? There are very few instances in the Bible where the person really has no choice. The few that do knowingly choose against God (Moses and Jonah come to mind) are each punished in their own ways and then eventually come back and choose what God wanted them to choose in the first place. Gideon had a choice. We always have choices, the key is giving up those perceived rights and choices to walk in the Spirit and choose this day whom we will serve. I choose to serve the Lord! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Q3. Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? Does anyone remember doughting Thomas To dought Jesue Christ would be verry disobiediant But we are forgiven God gave us all minds to use them and freedom of choice its just that for every action or lack there of there is a reactionand alot of imes that reaction brings us back to the fold Gideon had a choise ofcourse but his Love for God was so strong and after seeing God he porbly didnt have to think much about it. We have choices to make every day and somedays we make the wrong ones and learn from them and go on knowing that God will never forsake us helps us to see our wrongs and holds us up while we make mends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyce Hart Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 The apostles were disciples, but they disappointed Christ many times. It was only after the death and resurrection of our Lord that they developed the kind of character that Jesus was training them to have when He walked with them daily. Often times, we are not the obedient disciples that Christ wants because we don't have the courage to do what He asks of us. Sometimes, we are so caught up in what we want to do that we even think we are being obedient, but we are only doing what we have decided is the will of God, when sub-consciously, we know it isn't. Yes, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but fortunately, we have a promise in I John that says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. God does not force us to do anything. So, yes, Gideon had a choice. and he chose to obey God. Many times, we human Christians do not choose to obey, but we have a choice. If we choose to follow our Lord totally and completely, we will ultimately feel good about what we have done for we know we have been obedient disciples. But, if we choose to disobey, we may be guilt ridden for the rest of our lives; we may have to suffer unfortunate consequences, but we can rejoice in know that God continues to give us opportunities to make wise and godly choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Ice Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Holy Smokes what a question??!!! I thank our Lord Jesus Christ that indeed we can and quite frequently are indeed disobedient. Otherwise we would all be doomed don't ya think? Hey folks, honestly, Jesus knows that this side of heaven we will never achieve the status of perfection, Paul reiterates this is his letter to the church in Philippi when he pens the wonderfully soothing words found in verses 12-16 of Chapter 3. ...Not that I have already attained or am already perfected..etc -NKJV We all find ourselves in compromising situations and we all fail in them at times...some more than others but it seems that we still have an advocate in Christ and only Satan would attempt to convince us otherwise. Yet we must always keep in mind the sobering reminder that our sin comes at a great cost... the cost of our precious LORD and savior to hang on the tree...lets not keep him there huh? Your brother in Christ, -Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Ice Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Holy Smokes what a question??!!! I thank our Lord Jesus Christ that indeed we can and quite frequently are indeed disobedient. Otherwise we would all be doomed don't ya think? Hey folks, honestly, Jesus knows that this side of heaven we will never achieve the status of perfection, Paul reiterates this is his letter to the church in Philippi when he pens the wonderfully soothing words found in verses 12-16 of Chapter 3. ...Not that I have already attained or am already perfected..etc -NKJV We all find ourselves in compromising situations and we all fail in them at times...some more than others but it seems that we still have an advocate in Christ and only Satan would attempt to convince us otherwise. Yet we must always keep in mind the sobering reminder that our sin comes at a great cost... the cost of our precious LORD and savior to hang on the tree...lets not keep him there huh? Your brother in Christ, -Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminosa Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 A person can be a "disobedient disciple". The term seems like an oxymoron because the two don't quite go together, they don't fit. Gideon had a choice whether to obey God or not, just as we have that same choice. God has given us a free will, so sometimes we will make mistakes. I believe that you can honestly love the Lord but still mess up. I'm thankful that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and we are able to repent and make things right with His help. Luminosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omie Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Q3. Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? + I am an oxymoron - more of a moron then an oxy, and a disciple of Christ, what other kind is there? Praise God's Grace and Christ's sacrifice for me which Gideon did not have. + Yes, Gideon had a choice, he could do what God commanded or he could choose not to. Gideon heard Yahweh (6:22) and was assured of his protection. In faith he stepped out and trusted the Lord God Almighty with his and his family's well being. + I believe we have choices. I am not a pawn that God moves around a board. If so, I have been judged and found guilty, before I ever had a chance. I do recognize the fact that some major denominations have this belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Henhawke Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Certainly, we all can be a disobiedent diciple, just like Adam,Cain,Johna,Judas,and soforth. It sorta sounds like a oxymoron in terms we cannot be diciplined follower all the time. Free-will and the ever present evil enviroment will always play a role in our walk. Yes Gideon did have a choice, free will is given to all,Gideon could of gone to bed! Yes we all have choices, God graciously gave us free will as a sign and expression of his Love. Forced will is not Love its opression! peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Reid Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Q3. Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? Yes we can be. I love the Lord with all my heart, but I also have a free will and sometimes I am dissobedient. Maybe, but we all have free will. Yes he did Yes we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fina Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Q3. Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? >> Yes, we can be a disobedient disciple because as long as we are here on earth we could not avoid committing sins especially now in this kind of our present environment. Eventhough how much we struggle to avoid sins, we can not do it on our own but to seek God's help by praying always and by reading the bible so we may learn to love and obey Him. >> We all have choices - God gives us the freedom to do what is right and wrong but we should remember that we will suffer for the consequences of our wrong actions. Like what David did when he chose to disobey God by ordering Joab to put the husband (Uriah) of Bathseba in the front line so he would be killed and he (David) would be free to take Bathsheba as his wife. The same as Cain when he killed his brother, Abel wherein God said, "If you had done the right thing, you will be smiling, but because you have done evil, sin is crouching at your door. It wants to rule you, but you must overcome it." Gen. 4:7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda biloni Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 A person can be a disobedient disciple. Being a disciple of God requires obedience to Him which, at times, could lead to disobedience to family, friends and other associates. If Gideon was exercising his own will, yes he would've had a choice. Knowing God's will, and wanting to be obedient, he had no choice. We do have a coice, we can do our will and the will of others, or we can do God's will. We need to pray that God's will, will also be ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debs4jc Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Can a person be a "disobedient disciple"? Doesn't that represent an oxymoron? Did Gideon have a choice here? Do we have choices? I will agree with the majority of you who said that a person can be a disobedient disciple. Looking at the definition of what a disciple is it makes sense to me that while someone may have devoted themselves to following the teaching of another, they will have times when they slip up and even disobey. After all, they are "lesser" than the master teacher and if they were able to follow perfectly they wouldn't need to be a disciple. Paul himself said that there were times when he did what he didn't want to do. His sinful nature that dwelt within him was to blame when he did what he didn't want to do (Romans). Gideon had a choice, as we all do, since we all have free will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Smith Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 I don't believe that in theory a disciple can be disobedient and still be fulfilling the requirements of discipleship. Obviously, in practice a disciple may have times of disobedience but this is certainly not desireable. "Disobedient discipleship" should be something which, like "divorce," we keep out of our vocabulary and off our radar. We must aim for obedience even if we occasionally fall short. Gideon had a choice whether to tear down the Asherah pole and the altar. As to whether he had a choice to lead the Israelites into battle, I think that God had seen Gideon take the initial steps of yieldedness, and He saw that Gideon wanted to be obedient, so "the spirit of the LORD took possession of Gideon" and he appeared courageous. We do indeed have choices. Many times each day we have opportunities to choose the path of righteousness or the "seems right" path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDrew Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 I try,Lord knows I try, but I am so disobedient to the will of God that I constantly need His pardon. I thank Him daily for that grace He has given, the pardon that comes without asking. I am a disciple, a true believer and have been for nearly 50 years but in those years have often been disobedient, but that does not mean I am not longer one of His. Indeed I have choicesbut because I am human and not God my choices are often the wrong ones. Hopefully I learn from the outcome and am guided back to the path I should have been on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeM Posted February 22, 2003 Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 Yes, we all can be a disobedient disciple. We all are called to be disciples and sometimes we disobey what God wants us to do. Yes, being a disobedient disciple is an oxymoron. Yes, Gideon has a choice here. God has given us free will and because of that, we choose whether we are obedient or disobedient. Yes, we all have choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanie Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 According to my Bible Dictionary the word 'disciple' in the New Testament means 'learner', 'pupil', 'one who is taught'. So, Yes, a learner disciple does 'disobey' but NOT usually because he wants to. Romans 7: 18 and 19 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am ! Who will deliver me from this body of death ? I thank God - through Jesus Christ our Lord ! Faith in The Spirit of The Lord and not yield to our flesh. This explains the oxymoron - The contradiction in Romans 8 : 7 and 8. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. This may explain why Joash defended his son against the men of the city. I think Joash really wanted to worship the one true God, but had somehow yielded to the flesh. Whereas Gideon had chosen to be led by The Spirit of God. By choosing to be led by The Spirit of God, I can now see very clearly what I didn't realize yesterday, that Gideon had actually greatly 'honored his father' by tearing down the Baal altar his father had built. We thank God Gideon chose to be led by The Spirit of God and not yield to his flesh. Gideon's flesh was weak and afraid. But because he chose to be led by the Spirit of God. Gideon was able to be obedient to God and tear down the false 'idols'. Wow, what a great lesson of faith and courage this is for all of us. The following is from the book 'Absolute Surrender' by Andrew Murray : - Remember, dear friend, what we need is to come to decision and action. There are in Scripture two very different sorts of Christians. The Bible speaks in Romans, Corinthians and Galatians about yielding to the flesh; and that is the life of tens of thousands of believers. All their lack of joy in The Holy Spirit, and their lack of the liberty He gives, is just owing to the flesh. The Spirit is within them, but the flesh rules the life. To be led by The Spirit of God is what they need. The Spirit has come to keep the link with Him unbroken every moment. Praise God for The Holy Spirit. We are so accustomed to think of The Holy Spirit as a luxury, for special times, or for special ministers and men. But The Holy Spirit is necessary for every believer, every moment of the day. Praise God you have Him, and that He gives you the full experience of the deliverance in Christ, as He makes you free from the power of sin. Through the death and resurrection of The Lord Jesus Christ we have access to The Holy Spirit every moment. The choice is ever before each one of us. We either yield to the flesh or by faith, moment by moment receive from the Holy Spirit in every given situation or circumstance. God works to will, and He is ready to work to do, but, alas ! many Christians misunderstand this. They think because they have the will, it is enough, and that now they are able to do. This is not so. The new will is a permanent gift, an attribute of the new nature. The power to do is not a permanent gift, but must be each moment received from The Holy Spirit. End of quote from Andrew Murray's book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luray mcclung Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, regretably we can be disobedient disciples. We are sinners; we are flesh. Thanks be to God that he forgives the times we disobey. Look at the twelve. Were their actions greater than disobedience? Peter pretended he never knew Him or associated with Him; Thomas doubted Him and worse yet, Judas betrayed Him for 30 pieces of silver. Do you know anyone named Judas today? Like Gideon, who had choices, we have choices. Since today is Palm Sunday of '03, I think about Christ's triumpant entry into Jerusalem. The parade has begun. We can be a bystander and say"Hosanna in the Highest. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord," then elect to do nothing more. As Christians we must be active participants, not bystanders. Our choice is to join the parade and follow Jesus. Now is the time of preparation to take up our cross and follow Him. Likewise, Gideon elected obedience to God. lmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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