Q5. Gideon's and His Father's Faith

[Peter Huang]

Joash had been vacillating between Yahweh and Baal. He even had an alter built for Baal in his land. He was therefore an ineffective leader as he sat on the fence. Gideon's action put his father on the spot and forced him to take a stand whether he is for Yahweh or Baal. Gideon need not take into consideration the impact of his action on his father as he was listening to Yahweh. It was more important for him to be obedient to Yahweh than to consider any impact his actions might have on his father. Since Joash finally took a stand for Yahweh and was prepared to defend his son against the people in his community he can be considered a true follower of Yahweh.

[Omie]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

+ Joash has "gone along to get along" he didn't serve the True God.

+ Gideon's action ultimately caused Joash to turn to worship The One True God.

+ Joash now is a loving father, defending his son, turning his back on Baal and the crowd who cried out for Gideion's death. * My thoughts here turned to Jesus when the crowd cried out for his death...because of that we have His sacrifice for our sins.

+ Joash became a follower when he renounced Baal as the lord and master - making a mockery of this idol.

[DebChats]

Joash has been a poor leader (Jdgs. 6:15), as he has allowed the worship of Baal on his property which breaks the first two commandments. Our leadership abilities are only as good as our obedience to God. Gideon's actions have a positive affect on his father, as it forces Joash to choose whom to serve .. God or Baal. I believe Gideon DID consider the impact on his father, but believed God knew best. It affected Gideon enough that he worked during the evening so as not to endanger his family. Joash has made a firm stand on the side of God. He protected Gideon in a most clever way.

[bjcollin]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

See Exposition.

I think that it is interesting that the majority of the opinions here are that Joash is a wishy-washy leader. Let's see, Gideon knows that when the angel of the Lord asks him about the Lord (Yehovah) he knows that it is the God of the Israelites and not baal/asherah that is being referred to. In v13 Gideon addresses the angel of the Lord as 'adown which is a firm strong lord/master. In v15 Gideon addresses the angel of the Lord as 'Adonay which is a respectful title for the Lord. Gideon also knows his heritage as an Israelite and which tribe that he belonged to. Gideon also then knows that if this is the Lord, then he needed to present an offering or sacrifice to the Lord. Once the sacrifice is accepted and Gideon knows exactly who he is talking with, in v22 Gideon addresses the Lord as 'Adonay Yehovih or Lord God which is a full proper title for God with a few vowels changed for reverence. Gideon then further knows God's word that meeting with God face to face means death. Where did Gideon get all of this knowledge from? In that culture, he would learn it only from his father Joash. So at one time in his life Joash was a strong man who taught his children well. The Bible doesn't mention what events lead up to Joash having an altar to baal/asherah on his land, it could have been that he owned the choice land the locals wanted to use for the purpose. Gideon does think about his family in v25 which includes his father Joash. After seeing his son's actions and what has occurred, he definately has cemented his own relationship with Yahweh even more.

[Julie]

We may see Joash as a coward not a leader, but Joash showed great courage & I think was pleased & relieved to see that the chain had been broken, they took the first step back to God, Gideon took the only action there was as a follower of the Lord, & now Joash is a courageous follower of Yahweh too.

[Linda Stanley]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

See Exposition.

To this point Joash has been a leader that took both sides to keep peace with the people.Both Baal and Yahweh were worshipped in this culture,so he let them build the altar to Baal on his property.This was wrong for him to have let the people do that,but he saw for himself that morning that when Baal's altar was demolished he was no real god.Joash could see very plainly that Baal did nothing to defend his self when the altar was torn down during the night.So he defended his son.The crowd was hostile in the morning as they asked "Who did this.But Joash stood up to them being very stern.If Baal really is a god,he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar.Gideon new his father Joash,as a leader and I believe Gideon new what the impact on his father would be.Joash defended Gideon and followed the True God Yahweh,once he saw that Baal was a false god and could do nothing.So Joash now uncompromisingly takes the side of Gideon and Yahweh making him a follower of the true God"

[luminosa]

Joash hasn't been much of a leader, conforming with the others and worshipping the false god baal.

Gideon's action brings out a courageous and bold response from Joash on behalf of God and his son Gideon. He speaks out against baal, insinuating that this false god has no real power and he defies the crowd and threatens them with violence if they attempt to hurt Gideon.

Many on the panel suggest that Gideon did consider the impact his action might have on his father by completing his task by night. Perhaps Gideon didn't give the consequences to his father too much thought and instead made a decision to follow and obey what God had ordered. Maybe he just said, "I'm gonna follow God, no matter what." If he would have thought about the possible consequences too long and hard instead of latching on to God's promise to go with him, he may have decided not to go through with it.

Joash has "come to his senses" and decided to stick out his neck for God and his son. It's as if Joash backslided and returned again to his first love.

[Marvin Phelps]

His father did not worship God and he participated in the spreading of idol worship. As such, he was not a loyal leader doing God

[Mike Dickinson]

4. What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b)

Gideon

[Donald Henhawke]

I tend to agree with BJ Collins on this one theres just not enough biblical info to base a wish-washy belief about Joash, lets see what we place as priorites today, shiney things, and green things, American Idol is hot these days, how about all the preverse topics in the supermarket checkout magazine racks! I tend to think that peoples spiritual journey was based on the I,ll believe it when i see it type attitude back then as well as today to some degree.

I believe his spiritual conviction had a profound affect on his relationship with both God and his son.

Some times honoring your mom and dad can involve many aspects of action and learning.

peace.

[Wendy Reid]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

I don't think that we can judge Joash, he was confused and not stable in his ways, but then who of us are at all times, until the Holy Spirit convicts and changes us.

Gideon puts his dad on the spot, he now has to choose whom he will serve.

No, he was obeying the Lord God.

Had Gideon considered his father, maybe he would not have obeyed God.

Because he made the choice to go with his son, thereby noe serving Yahweh.

[Fina]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected

Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

>> Joash was not fully committed to either Yahweh and Baal.

>> Gideon has put his father on the spot - what to choose - his townsmen and Baal, or Yahweh and Gideon.

>> I think Gideon has already considered the impact of his action on his father and the impact if he disobey Yahweh. That no matter what, he should put God first than anyone else.

>> Joash did not rely on his own strength but let the Holy Spirit came upon him to stand with Yahweh and his son Gideon.

[linda biloni]

Joash seems to have been a weak leader. He seems to have been more of a follower. After Gideon' action, Joash takes a definate stand for the Lord and Gideon.

I would think that knowing God is going to be with him and enable him to overcome the Midianites, Gideon made the right decision with consideration for his father.

joash is bold enough to tell the community that Baal should be able to defend his own alter, indicating that he doesn't see Baal as a god. Therefore, choosing to defend the Lord's alter and Gideon's choice to worship the Lord.

[Christopher Smith]

Joash was certainly not much of a leader, for he hadn't the integrity to stand up against the wishes of the people. Rather than leading by principle, and drawing the people toward obedience to God, he probably led "democratically," following the polls as it were. This explains "his" altar to Baal and "his" Asherah pole.

As discussed earlier, Gideon's actions put "dishonor" on his father, for the townspeople don't attack Gideon directly, but demand an explanation from Joash, holding him responsible as the patriarch of his family.

Joash is a follower of God now, because the successful destruction of Baal's altar proves to him the powerlessness of the god, while at the same time his son's courage reminds him of his proper loyalty.

[debs4jc]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

Joash has been a wishy-washy leader, allowing the people to build the altar on his land. He's compromised his standards by bowing to popular opinion. In my mind's eye I see him privately not approving of Baal worship, but he's afraid to make a public stand. Not only would it have been unpopular and made people mad at him, it probably would have hurt him economically if people refused to do business. And times were hard enough already. At least that's how he could have justified it.

Gideon's action has the effect of forcing Joash to take a stand. He has to publically make a choice one way or the other. No longer can he protect his family and business by saying one thing at home and another in public. If he chooses to side with the people and Baal his own son will be hurt. If he chooses God his property and friendships will be at jeopardy.

Gideon probably only had a little bit of time to think through the consequences of his actions. He knew that it would affect his family. This may have been one of the reasons he tore down the altar at night. But he had to do what God asked and leave the fate of his family in God's hands.

Joash made a stand and publically sided with Yahweh. As Jesus said, anyone who confessed him before men, he will confess them before the father. Joash is now both publically and privately committed to the Lord.

[RDrew]

Joash must have been a persuasive leader as he seemed to be able to get the people to take a particular direction, although the wrong one. He appears to not be strong in his convictions as the people are allowed to worship idols. Wishy washy as we are today, praying and believing but not practicing fully the worship of the true God. We allow things in our lives, homes and families that are worldly and we put our God along side these rather than over them.

Gideon was used by God to point the way back to Him. He was able to tear down the altar and the pole and not be harmed because of it. When Joash chose to allow God to demonstrate His power he was ackowldeging that he really knew who would win. It saved his face before the people, saved his son from retribution and gave him an out toward getting back to the right worship.

God knew the outcome, we need to remember that He uses the circumstances for His own good and to demonstrate His power. Thank You God!

[DianeM]

Gideon's father Joash's leadership was to a false god. Gideon's actions spurs his father to test the god he worshiped. No, Gideon wanted to be obedient to God. And yes he feared what his father would think of what he had done, but he knew God would know the outcome and had to trust God. Joash is a follower because he trusted Gideon with what he was doing. Joash also noticed that nothing happened to Gideon when he destroyed the other gods.

[Joanie]

Up until this point Joash, the father of Gideon has greatly compromised himself by wavering unsteadily in the worship of both false gods and Yahweh. And in this he has failed miserably the children of Israel as their leader.

Gideon could not possibly have known the wonderful affect his choosing to be led by The Spirit of God would have on his father, Joash.

He was afraid !

He did not know what his father or the men of the city might do.

I do not think he realized he would be putting his father in the position where he would have to choose between the false gods and The One True God, Yahweh.

But The Spirit of God knew !

All Gideon knew was that he was determined to obey God no matter what the consequences might be.

Had not God appeared to Gideon in a most wonderful way ? Telling Gideon 'The Lord is with you, you mighty man of valor !' And, 'Go in this might of yours, and you shall save Israel from the hand of the Midianites. Have I not sent you ?' Then again, 'Surely I will be with you, and you shall defeat the Midianites as one man.'

Joash, the father of Gideon now uncompromisingly takes the side of his son and Yahweh. He has taken his stand, much like Joshua did a century before.

What an amazing and precious word to all of us.

Wht an encouragement, even if we are seemingly in circumstances where nothing much seems to be happening for The Glory of God.

We may apply this to ourselves. In nine cases out of ten, the reason we have so little influence for Christ among our own family and loved ones is that we ourselves are not prepared to go to the length of full consecration to the will of God.

[Dennis Hatlestad]

Joash was aback and forth kind of leader between God and Baal. Gideon did what he thought was the best solution to show his father who he should be worshipping. We as sinners have done something we aren't to proud of doing. But our God is a forgiving God.

[luray mcclung]

Joash was probably more a crowd pleaser than a genuine leader. On his own land had been constructed an altar to Baal. Probably many of us can relate to Joash's circumstance in that in our personal lives of former years we entertained the idols of this world and appeared without holiness and without roots to our faith in the Living God. Next, Gideon's action affects his father in that Joash can now make the decision to serve God, not Baal. If we incessantly consider the impact our obedience to God may have on others then we could possibly lose focus of God's plan for us. Furthermore, the impact on Joash did not affect Gideon's action of obedience to God. The Spirit of the Lord was upon Gideon to do God's will. Because of Gideon's obedience, Joash no longer compromised. Like Joshua, a century before, Joash served the Lord. lmc

[Liza]

Joash was probably the spiritual leader of his town because tearing down the altar and cutting down the pole threw the entire town into a furore.

Gideon

[susanb]

joash had watched his son make a decision for the Living God and now he had a choice to make. joash had compromised by worshipping baal and like us all he had to remove the idols of compromise and get back to where God could bless him. we wonder where our blessings have gone and we have to look at our own idols of compromise at times- too much tv, shopping, people, success, materialism- to see they are not bringing the blessings we desire. i find that we distract ourselves by seldom turning off everything-including praise music- to just listen for the voice of God Himself.

Gideon is finally listening and then so does his father. God can use one person given totally to Him to change the lives of many.

[Derek]

Up to this point Joash had led his son astray by worshipping a false god and as a leader he seems to have encouraged Baal worship amongst all those under his leadership. Presumably Gideon knew something of the true God - but was it from his family? Perhaps his mother had nurtured her child in accordance with the law of God. Yes, Gideon should have hoped that his action would have resulted in his father turning back to God. It sounds as if Joash was sceptical regarding Baal, but was he also a sceptic concerning the true God? Maybe!

[mcj5057]

It appears that up to this point Joash was "Straddling the Fence." He most vertainly knew about Yahweh but chose to worship an idol to keep the peace, so to speak. In choosing to do this, he led his son astray.

Gideon's action certainly rocked the boat. Gideon had to make a choice and the choice was not one that would be met with acclaim. Gideon probably thought about the difficult position his actions would place his father in. However, Gideoon had begun to realize that the only right choice was in uncompromisingly following God.

Joash when confronted with the reality of Gideon's decision caused him to get off the fence and choose that day whom he woould serve!

[mark.o.reynolds]

Up to this point Joash was going back and forth between Baal and Yahweh. I think he believed in both but was uncertain of which to choose until this act happened. I think he needed a little connvincing and this forced him to make a choice himself on whether to serve a false god in Baal or serve the Almighty Lord God.

Gideon's actions affected his father because it made him choose to follow God instead of serving Baal. It was a difficult decision for Gideon because he knew it would put his father in a very difficult situation with the townspeople. I am certain Gideon took his father's situation into consideration before he destroyed the altar and that is why it was such a difficult decision for him to make.

In a sense Joash is now a follower of God becasue he tells the townspeople that if Baal was a real god he would have protected the altar himself. He chose the decision made by his son and that was the decision to follow the Lord. He got off his going back and forth between Baal and God and made the only choice there is to make and that is serving the one and only God.