Q7. Spiritually Dead

[Pastor Ralph]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind’s fallen nature? What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?

[Lottie]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind's fallen nature? It teaches us that we were dead in our transgressions and sins. That we had committed gross violations against God and we had missed the mark entirely. That we had no interest in Him and were empty and without purpose. That we followed the prince of this world and went along with whatever the culture dictated. We went craving after every sinful thing we could think of and satisfied our lusts and passions. That because of this we were children of wrath. We were doomed and deserving of judgement and punishment. That we were a sinful and ungrateful people and God had every right to send us to hell. That we chose of our own free will to sin against God and He could have chosen not to save us, but He did.

What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Our own sinful nature motivates our actions.

Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious? The conscious ones are your desires, lusts, envy, jealousy and the rest. The unconscious ones are your thoughts that come unbidden and your feelings or emotions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Liliane]

Before we came to christ and the Holy Spirit came to live in us, we simply followed ( conscious and unconsciously), the dark powers of this world ( satan s kingdom). We just took our actions based on our fallen darkened minds. We were lied to by these powers of darkness. God the Father took us to Jesus and He changed the kingdom we were in. We were born again, but this time into His everlasting Kingdom

[t-c]

That humankind’s fallen nature is a certainty for everyone, even Paul. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It is inescapable. We are born into sin and a world system dominated and controlled by Satan.

Our motivations before we come to know Christ are the world, the flesh, and the devil. Specifically in verse 3, it mentions indulging the desires of the flesh and mind. It also mentions in verse 2, the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience, the devil.

I would think that the conscious motivation would come from flesh and the mind. Conscious because we will do wrong things (sin) even though we know it’s wrong. The desire for something outweighs the possible penalty or our “conscience” telling us not to do it. 

The unconscious motivations would be this world we live in and the influences that it exerts on us combined with the powers of the prince of the air.

 
 

[Rob Mc.]

Until we are saved, and even for some time after (since we are “babies” and only can digest milk), we continue to live in the ways of the world.  Though we think and hope that we love Jesus (and God), our faith is nascent and we tend to have faith only in that which we can see, or are told by another (usually a person in a position of religious power).  We continue to sin, even knowingly, with the hope that we will grow into a stronger faith and a mindset that takes sinning seriously.  We desire (l#st) after people, positions and things, finding it difficult to give these things up for the sake of our faith.

(Unconscious motivations): If we follow television, what we read online, the unwise advice of others and our own thoughts about the things of the world, we will struggle to grow any closer to God and Christ.  WE HAVE TO LET GO!! 

(Conscious motivations): We must begin to practice self-control, blocking out that which is worldly (stop following the Prince of the air), and growing closer to the Truth (the Word of God).  We must follow the Lords two greatest Commandments: Trust God, and only God, and Love your neighbor (forgiving your enemies, too).  Only then are we "ready" for God's grace.

[hanks]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) 
What do these verses teach us about humankind's fallen nature? What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious? 
Humankind without Christ is spiritually dead, living as if God does not exist, and the cause of this death are our transgressions and sins. We are totally corrupt and immoral, obedient to the god of this age (Satan), walking according to the ideology of the world – a world of deceit, immorality, ungodliness, selfishness, violence, and rebellion – living in total disobedience to God. Being energized by Satan we willingly defy, dishonour, and disobey our Lord. Being dead means that on our own there is no way we can come to repentance and faith in Christ. We need the Holy Spirit to melt the hardness of our hearts, to be made alive to spiritual things; we need to hear the Word proclaimed, we need mercy and grace. "How are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard?" (Rom 10:14). Unless God works in our hearts to make the proclamation of the gospel effective, there will be no genuine saving response. Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44). All of God’s elect on hearing the Word, will eventually make the conscious decision to put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Of course, not everyone else who hears the gospel message will respond. In actual fact few respond – “small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it (Mat 7:14). But fortunately, there will be some who will consciously respond to come to Christ, and be saved. I feel God will give everyone the opportunity to make a conscious decision about coming to Christ. He is patient, full of grace and compassion. He does not want any to perish so He purposely extends the time of grace. Hereby giving us the chance to come to repentance and be saved (2 Pet 3:9). There is no need for any to perish (John 3:16). 
 

[haar]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind's fallen nature? What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?

We were dead and slain by our trespasses and sin as the Amplified version said. Satan was having a field day ordering us here and there to do his bidding that also appeared or seemed good and pleasant in our eyes before the Lord Jesus came to our rescue.
 

[blezed]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind’s fallen nature?

These verses teaches us that without Christ we are spiritually dead. 

What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?

We are motivated by the things of the world.  Conscious motivations may be following desires and thoughts.  We are definitely aware of our actions.  Unconscious motivations may be influence of others and being victimized by Satan without even knowing it.

[Krissi]

Since everyone I know and love is an unbeliever, the idea that they're God's "objects of wrath" hits me hard, yet I know it's true. They are vulnerable to the secular world's allures as well as propaganda because they have no external rock or referent on which to stand. All they have is inside of them, which is malleable and weak. Even my secular father, who is a very strong individual, has a sort of fluctuating situational ethic. Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit within, the only boundaries are social and legal, and even these loose, low hedges are being mowed down. 

When we pray for the salvation of people, including loved ones, God often tarries. Years pass without any visible signs of inner awakening. Yet, I believe -- perhaps, just hope -- that God honours these prayers.

I wanted to add this verse, as it describes so well what it's like to be secular:  "I sink in the miry depths where there is no foothold." I think this is from the 69th or 70th psalm.

[Diane D.]

• Humankind is by nature, sinful.  Even when the law was handed down to us which SHOULD have regulated our behaviour, Paul points to the fact that the law, in essence, identifies sin and makes us want to sin more. We cannot fight our bad nature because it is born in us.  We cannot legislate our natures because no man is righteous, as Paul points out. We can't dig ourselves out of the hole except, by relying on what Christ did and not our efforts.  He is the only way out.
• What motivates our actions before coming to Christ is our sinful nature.  Once we believe in Christ, sin does not reign over us, however we are free to make choices.  Should we choose to sin, then repent. It is a gift that was given to us by Jesus.
• Because of the sinful nature (filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness;  full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity;  whispering, backbiting, God hating, despitefulness, pride, boasting, invention of evil things, disobedience to parents, covenant breakers, not capable of understanding, implacable, unmerciful and without natural affection) through what we see or hear, we have an opportunity to sin. These may be the symptoms of sin but the motivation comes from the heart.  Conscious motivations are those motivations which use these attributes and act on them.  There is a choice that is made to take action. 

 

[Katy]

Q7. Our fallen nature is when we were ‘dead in our transgressions’, rather than following the things of God we followed the lies of Satan, and fell into the ways of the world. We were spiritually dead before Christ. We went our own way and did what we liked without any thought about God or His law. We are motivated by our own evil desires , we live to please and gratify ourselves with no thought of God. Until we hear and know about God and Jesus our motivations may be unconscious, because most of the world is doing the same thing. Once we learn and become conscious of God our motivation will be conscious and we will become increasingly uncomfortable with our life style.

[pickledilly]

"...you were dead..."  Paul took us to the root of our sin problem here. Spiritual deadness. At the very beginning, Adam and Eve directly disobeyed Yahweh as they entertained the subtle questions posed by satan, doubted God’s goodness, and chose to indulge in what they unwisely thought to be their right. The consequence of their rebellion was this – their personal intimate spiritual connection with God Himself (which is what He designed for all of humanity!) was severed like a head being cut from a body. With the intimate connection to God cut off, their spiritual life died, and dead things cannot regenerate themselves. That spiritual deadness was the only thing they could pass on to the rest of humanity.

Without the living spiritual connection and intimate relationship with God, humanity has always been led by our corrupted minds (our logic), emotions (our feelings), and will (our choices) – all components of our make up where the master Enemy of God has profound influence. Often we make deliberate decisions to sin, but we also follow this dark prince of the power of the air without even realizing it, because that’s the natural default to following God. We unconsciously yield to the worldly systems that satan has incited with such subtlety we have no idea we are being led like a bull with a ring in its nose. We are motivated by the passions of our fleshly nature to indulge whatever the body and mind desire. In general, we choose whatever we want, whenever we want it, without wisdom or discernment or concern for impact on our future or on others. And this sets us in direct opposition to the purity, wisdom, purposes, desires, and commands of perfect Yahweh. He is the loving God of grace, but He is also the unyielding God of righteousness and justice. I’m sure it is with a deeply grieved heart that He must view mankind as the disobedient children of wrath that we are without Christ -  and for the judgment He must execute on that. Thank You, LORD for extending Your great mercy and grace to us in providing the remedy to that spiritual deadness and its eternal outcome!

[BoazNigel]

" ... you were DEAD because of your disobedience & your many sins ... obeying the devil ... by our very nature we were subject to God's anger ... " (Eph 2:1-3, NLT selected) we were spiritually dead - alienated from God

We were motivated/driven by our fallen nature, satan & the world/cultural pressures & norms

As to what was conscious & what was unconscious - this is a complex question

Conscious motivation is when we deliberately follow/yield to the things/lusts that we know are wrong

Unconscious motivation are those things that creep in unbidden but they become conscious when we yield to them

Lord help me stand strong!

[Zanele Tlhakanelo]

These verses teach us that we were spiritually dead and violated the prescripts God laid before us. We transgressed, rebelled against God and walked according to the standards of this world following our desires and following the tricks of the devil.

We followed what the world offered us thinking that we will get fulfilment and satisfaction by all that happened around us. We thought that what the world offered was perfect and permanent and deceived by the devil who offered us all the riches of this world just like he did when he tempted Christ Jesus to worship him by showing Him all the beauty of the world. The devil must be reminded that he created nothing and there is nothing that he can offer us.

Conscious motivations are the desires of our hearts and the lusts of the world that make us to heed the call of God but harden our hearts to do what satisfy us and not do His will. We are easily deceived by the temporary pleasures of the world and forget the permanent and eternal life God promised us.

Unconscious motivations are things that the devil creeps in our lives and end up doing wrong things that hurt God. The world of the Lord says "even the elite/elect will be deceived. All the chosen people, those who are faithful to the call of God, will also go through this deception.

[Janzie]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:25 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind’s fallen nature? What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?

They teach me that before Christ came into my heart I was a child of wrath, leading my own life and doing what I pleased. I tried to be good but it did not work out. I did not have Christ in my life.

I motivated my own actions and do what I pleased or deceived by the devil.  

The conscious were motivated by myself.

The unconscious were when the devil deceived and tricked me without knowing it and realized it later.

[PATCH]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind’s fallen nature? What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?

Humankind's fallen nature is to sin and sin repeatedly.  Since we did not follow God, we followed the prince of this world and became objects of wrath and gratified our sinful nature with ****, greed, pride, desires, evil thoughts, jealousy, envy, strife, selfishness, etc.  

Conscious motivation - we are aware of right and wrong.  Our education and the laws of the land and even a good upbringing make us conscious of sin and the difference between right and wrong.

Unconscious motivation - subtle influence of the world.  The bible says we are in this world but not of this world.  Christians work and live in hostile environments. In order to "survive" many of us are sucked into polluted surroundings.

As Christians we STILL sin but we have the conviction of the Holy Spirit and God's forgiveness.  We should be grateful !

 

 

 

 

[Debra Grant]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind’s fallen nature? What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?

1. We were in sin without Christ we were spiritually dead.

2. We were following the prince of the air which is Satan. Motivated by our flesh to do what we wanted.

3. We are conscious of moral situations within ourselves.

4. The unconscious is the subtle of Satan whereas we are not aware and fulfilling the desires of our heart as if we are right and not always knowing it is wrong. We later become aware of it as wrong.

[lighthouse2014]

Ephesians 2:1-3 teaches that humankinds fallen nature is that without Christ we spiritually dead by our transgressions and sins. By nature we are objects of Gods wrath.

 Our consciousness condemns us of guilt, if reading the word of God we realize we have transgressed Gods law and are objects of his wrath.

The conscious motivation we may have are desires, ****, thoughts, jealousy, and envy. our unconsciousness motivation would be selfishness, deceitful or devious.        

[Irmela]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3)

What do these verses teach us about humankind's fallen nature?   The fallen nature  is spiritually dead. Far from God. In fact, cut off from Him.  The standards of uprightness are non-existent.  It tries to gratify its own desires.   

What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?     

The ways of this world motivates our action, in short it is satan who is behind it all. 

"In our deadness we lack discernment. Our lives are filled with the cravings of our sinful nature (verse 3) -- desires, lusts, thoughts, jealousy, envy, strife, selfishness, you name it -- which the Tempter inflames." 

When we are ignorant of something being wrong and do that, then the motivation to do it is unconscious.   

[faith & hope 2017]

Ephesians 2:1-3 teaches that humankinds were spiritually dead in our transgressions and sins.  We had no moral standards.  We had no standard of uprighteousness.  We mindlessly follow the ways of of the world, its culture's values, which is governed by Satan who is the ruler of the kingdome of the air.  We were without God. 

Our actions before coming to Christ was dictate by the value system of our culture.  We were highly influenced through media and social things that negatively affected our lives that without any thought of itself surrendered to the cravings of our sinful nature.  

****, desires, covetness, jealousy, envy, selfishness and strife are a few of the motivations that we might be conscious of. 

Since we do have some control over our actions, and thus, we are weak, selfish and spiritually blind in that we break God's holy standards of conduct and righteousness, there is no motivation that is unconscious.  Free will has no meaning whatsoever. 

 

[JOLLAM BANDA]

Without Jesus Christ human kind is a sinner and deserves the punishment from god. Before we come to god human kinds were motivated by transgressions and sins and were followers of the ways of this world, of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, gratifying the cravings of their sinful nature and deserved punishment from god. “Gratifying the cravings of their sinful nature” and “following the ways of this world” is a conscious motivation while by “nature we were objects of wrath” is an unconscious motivation

[Old Jerry]

These verses tell is that we have fallen and we are still falling away from God. We think that we have to control everything and we can see that we are doing if terrible job of it. The thing that we see and do motivates us and it is the things in this fallen word that is leading us away from God. After we come to Christ, we can see that what we have been doing was wrong so we have repented and turned to God.

[Lisa Wolf]

Q7. (Ephesians 2:1-3) What do these verses teach us about humankind’s fallen nature? What motivates our actions before we come to Christ? Which of these motivations might be conscious? Which might be unconscious?

Verse one of Ephesians tells us we were dead in our sins.  What smell imagery that calls to mind!  Dead. Gross. Living in our sins: putrid, decaying, stench.  Motivated by our own cravings, desires, and thoughts.  Talk about self-centered and selfish.  Wow.  I think that the motivations are unconscious when we do not know another way.  Until we have heard of the Kingdom of God, until we have heard of God's love in Jesus, until we know there is a choice, I think that all our motivations are unconscious--we simply follow the culture.