Q8. Deceitful Heart

[Pastor Ralph]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a “deceitful heart” shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a “deceitful heart” corrupt us in a pervasive way?

[Lottie]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a "deceitful heart" shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a "deceitful heart" corrupt us in a pervasive way? Man is a mixture of both. He is basically good because he was created by God and has His nature but he is also bad because his heart is deceitful and corrupt due to sin.

 

A deceitful heart shows up in the evil thoughts that come out of a man. Things like adultery, murder, sexual immorality, false testimony and slander. He is conniving, devious and wanting his own way. He pushes to have his own way and often hurts others. He is thoughtless, cruel and even vindictive. Man is utterly selfish and self-seeking.

 

It corrupts us in the way that we speak and how we treat other people. Because at our very heart we are corrupt because of the fall. In what we think and how we act out; it shows how depraved we really are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[t-c]

According to scripture there doesn’t seem to be any good in man. That we are basically bad. Not some good or some bad, just all bad. We are a product of the fall, born with a sin nature and even things we do that seem good have underlying selfish motives. We are friends of the world and enemies of God. 
Without Christ we were without hope and helpless to change who we are: slaves to sin and unrighteousness.

[haar]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a "deceitful heart" shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a "deceitful heart" corrupt us in a pervasive way?

Since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden, the heart of man has been sinful and desperately wicket without any good outside Christ.

But thank God for his grace that makes us in the Lord Jesus whole and acceptable as his children that are wholesome.
 

[Katy]

Q8. There is some good in humankind, because we are all made in the imagine of God. Because of God’s inherent goodness, we have some goodness but we are not perfectly good. This is because we are part of a fallen world. Unfortunately our hearts are evil, corrupt and cannot be trusted. We are a mixture of good and evil. Our deceitful heart shows up because of our sinful nature. Jeremiah goes as far as saying our hearts are deceitful above all things and beyond cure! Our deceitful hearts show up when we sin, so often our sin is selfish and self serving. If our heart is deceitful we are selfish and self serving and that permeates all areas of our lives, this has a corrupting influence on our whole being and in our attitudes and motivation in life.

[hanks]

Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a "deceitful heart" shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a "deceitful heart" corrupt us in a pervasive way? 
Jesus Himself said “No-one is good - except God alone” (Luke 18:19). All of mankind live in a state of depravity and have turned from righteousness to sin. We are all born sinners with a sinful, selfish nature, who fall short of God’s glory (Rom 3:23). Psalm 14:2-3 says it all: “The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one”. We might be capable of doing some good things, like being kind to others or even caring for the needy, but even these things have sinful motives behind them. “… All our righteous acts are like filthy rags …” (Isa 64:6). Our hearts are so deceptive, and in our corrupt and fallen state may even be more wicked than we are aware of. One of the ways we could be deceived is by believing that being a good person will get us into heaven. Since no-one is good, and that we are all sinners, as well as the fact that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23) - there is no way we are going to heaven by our own means. Our hearts deceive us and we falsely believe that a good person is able to earn their way into heaven. However, the gospel teaches us that we can never be good enough to get to heaven - the only way is through Jesus Christ our Lord (John 14:6). We repent of our sins and place our faith and trust in Him. Even though in Christ we are a new creation, we still have to distrust our hearts because of the remnants of our old flesh that still cling to us and deceive us. We are still subject to our carnal desires. Jesus Himself said in Mat 15:19 “for out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, thefts, false witness, slander” (Mat 15:19). As James mentions “each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed” (James 1:14). 
 

[Krissi]

Of course there are good deeds and thoughts in all humanity. Many secular people do good, noble and selfless deeds every day. But their goodness, like that of Christians, is tinged with badness -- there's no "pure play" among us, saved or secular.

Sanctification is a process. It's not instantaneous ... not at all. With the Holy Spirit's indwelling power, Christians battle their own tendencies until they die. This is the "deceitful heart," the part of us that we may not be aware of, but that emerges into awareness when we do or think things that are shameful. 

One of the fault lines between secular and Christian people is the idea that people are essentially good. Seculars will always assert that people are good -- in their minds,  society, global warming, bad parenting, political policies or whatever cause people to do and think bad things. They believe the innermost core of a person is malleable which is why they propagandize, "educate" and manipulate. 

Christians become increasingly aware of their own deceitful heart, as they mature spiritually. This troubling self-knowledge does make us wary, not only of others, but of ourselves. Christians will never assert that people are essentially good. They know better.

They know themselves. 

[Liliane]

 The human heart is bad and deceitful. We should never trust it. Instead, we have to make our decisions based on the Word of God. Our ego ( subconscious mind) is always lying to us, to get pleasure or to keep us surviving, without making the necessary changes. When we read the Word and do not want to obey it, we come up with all kinds of excuses or blame others. 

[blezed]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind?

Yes, there is good in mankind.

Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both?

Humans are both according to scriptures. We are a mixture of good and evil. Human nature contains some good, since we are made in God's image, but we are deeply flawed at the core, with deceitful hearts

What are some of the ways a “deceitful heart” shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a “deceitful heart” corrupt us in a pervasive way?

Deceitful heart shows up in our lives and motivations when we say things that are unpleasing to God, when we are selfish and when we have evil thoughts

 

 

[Diane D.]

• There is good but as a vestige of God.  This vestige leads us to hope in Him and to recognize that spark in others. However, it is very rare that the good is pure and fully reflects His character.  In fact, Paul comes to the conclusion that there are no righteous people, not one.
• Our basic character is bad and theologians would tells us this is because we were born in sin as a condition handed down through Adam.  We have good and bad within us that we can act on but the good is insufficient to save us.  We need to be created as a totally new creature.  We are not healed but rather recreated.
• When we are in a position to do good AND benefit ourselves, we are operating from a deceitful heart.  When something good is discovered for our benefit and find that it also becomes a weapon,  that thinking comes from a deceitful heart.
• Deceitful hearts corrupt us because we may start with a good premise (albeit our thinking tends to be limited, uninspired and short-sighted!) but as soon as we start to twist it, we start to lose our focus.  Once action is taken on that basis, humans then tend to build other thoughts into extending that original one.   For example, commenting on another's actions may quickly spread to gossip which provides the basis for ourselves and others to judge that person even though they may be totally innocent to begin with.  This may be one of the reasons why God does not reconnect with us through our actions but rather, creates a new heart in us and those actions coming through the Holy Spirit from the heart are the ones that have true value to Him and us.

By the way Krissi, I like your summary re:  sanctification

"Sanctification is a process. It's not instantaneous ... not at all. With the Holy Spirit's indwelling power, Christians battle their own tendencies until they die. This is the "deceitful heart," the part of us that we may not be aware of, but that emerges into awareness when we do or think things that are shameful. "  Well put!

 

 

[BoazNigel]

Is there any good in humankind?

Appearances would say 'yes' but the Apostle Paul wrote "I know NOTHING GOOD LIVES IN ME, that is, in my sinful nature" (Rom 7:18, NLT)

There is a 'shadow' of goodness because we are created in the image of God but because of the Fall there is no good in us

Our 'deceitful heart' is exposed by our sinful inclinations & motivation: in how we speak, act & react

As my old pastor used to say 'no one ever had to teach a child to be naughty!'

[Rob Mc.]

Most Humans (other than the morally corrupt and psychopaths) are basically “good at heart.”  Most of us would take the time to help someone if the opportunity presented itself (Hey, would you help me move a washer and dryer on Saturday?  Would you give me a ride to the ____ next week?).  This is the piece of God (his image) that is in each of us at birth. 

Each of us also carries a bit of innate corruption to do the wrong thing, too (Look, that person dropped a $20 bill and didn’t notice.  Finders keepers. The checker at the grocery store undercharged me for several items.  My Lucky Day!).

Finally, the “deceitful heart” is a slippery slope.  We begin by “getting away with” petty deceitful things.  Then it begins its pervasive march through our being.  We find it is easier each time to behave badly and think we will get away with it. If not halted by repentance and then polished with God’s grace, we humans may very likely continue into some truly evil deeds. Look at the world today.  People are doing some truly inhumane things to their fellow man, and there is no moral conscience or self-recognition of their horrendous behavior.  Please, let’s pray for them.

[pickledilly]

I like the description in the lesson that humanity still retains a remnant, a shadow of God’s image and His quality of goodness. There truly is some element of good in people, although nowhere close to the goodness of God. And any human goodness is nowhere near as strong and forceful as the evil and depravity of our deceitful hearts. Even the good we desire and attempt to do is rarely, if ever, completely pure.  The heart is considered the center of our innermost person, but also our unclean and corrupt nature before God. Scripture is filled with warnings about the unclean and unreliable human heart.  An honest Christian relates to the struggle Paul described in his own life in Romans 7, as the old nature of the self-indulgent flesh wages war with the new God-centered nature of the spirit. Our deceitful hearts are constantly trying to pull us back to an unhindered life of fulfilling desires of the heart.

[Janzie]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:26 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a “deceitful heart” shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a “deceitful heart” corrupt us in a pervasive way?

  Any kind of good that comes out of me like goodness, kindness, love is all because of Christ in me.  He even gives me the Love to love Him with! 

  Both - good -Because we were made in God's image and bad - because - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

  A deceitful heart shows up as sin - out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander, cheating, stealing, hateing someone,       lying, etc

Many people don't even know they have a deceitful heart and sometimes they are even surprised that they do the things they do and why they did it.

[Zanele Tlhakanelo]

Yes, there is good in humankind as we are made in the image of God and after His likeness. There are people who sacrifice their lives and serve others. People who look after the homeless, the destitute and orphans using the little that they have. Indeed, there is so much good that is done by a lot of people and unfortunately, media does not say a lot about such people.

I believe that there are good people and bad people. If it were not so, we would not have too much crime , corruption, racism, deception and acts of malice especially in our country, South Africa. Good people continue to do what pleases God and those that do evil, actually break His heart.

When we are jealous when other people progress in life, pride, selfishness, boastful, rude. 1 Corinthians 13 verses 4(b)-6. I also like Matthew 5 verses 27-30 when Jesus teaches about adultery.

A deceitful heart can corrupt us just like the snake did to Eve and Adam. It creeps into us unawares and we end up in sin. We must at all times request the Holy Spirit to guide, lead, direct, advise and help us so that we can be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

[Debra Grant]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a “deceitful heart” shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a “deceitful heart” corrupt us in a pervasive way?

1. Our hearts are deceitful and cannot be trusted. There is no good thing in the flesh. The only thing good in us is the holy ghost which helps us to do good for ourselves and to others.

2. We were born in sin which is not good. The Lord leading us helps us to go toward perfection and his righteousness. We are basically bad without God.

3. Pretending to love only our spouse and committing adultery, trying to be more than what we are, deceiving others as if we have more money, clothing, material things, loving them greatly, and seeking after what they have, (money, husband or wife, clothing, and being deceitful to look good).

4. When we let our minds wonder off of God, Satan comes in crafty, slick, and tricky. What 's in the heart will come out, therefore, we must have control over our tongue. We should keep our mind on God and his word at all times. The tongue can be deadly. 

[PATCH]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a “deceitful heart” shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a “deceitful heart” corrupt us in a pervasive way?

Yes there is some good in humankind.  We were made in the image of God; we were made by God.  Some of us are blessed to be born into spirit filled Christian homes and we grew up in an environment which allowed the good in us to manifest.  Some of are good because we are morally upright.  But God gave us free will too and we tend to sway to the bad.  Whilst the world views man outwardly, God sees the heart.  So even though we can appear to be good on the outside, we can be bad on the inside of our desires, thoughts and intentions.  

[lighthouse2014]

There is some good in humankind because of the remnants of God's image in us and so some try to live a righteous life style, however we find that from the heart come evil thoughts and desires.

A deceitful heart shows up in our thoughts of murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander etc.

A deceitful heart corrupts us in a pervasive way that out of it comes all sorts of evil, for man's heart is evil.       

[Irmela]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9)

Is there good in humankind?

Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both?

What are some of the ways a "deceitful heart" shows up in our lives and motivations?

If the heart is the innermost person, how does a "deceitful heart" corrupt us in a pervasive way?

Yes, there is good in man. We are formed in the image of God (Genesis 1:27, 31). That part is what is good. 

Man is basically good because of the remnant of God's image in us. But we are basically evil since the heart, the very center of our being, is corrupt and cannot be trusted. Our whole being is at least somewhat corrupt and, therefore, even the "good" in us cannot be completely trusted. We are a mixture of good and evil.   

That paragraph is very clearly put in the notes

"The things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean.'" (Matthew 15:18-20a)

Consciously we might know that going with the crowd and doing something morally wrong, is not what we should do.  But the desire of the heart is to be part of the crowd and then we go ahead and do it anyway. So the heart has the upperhand and we get more and more corrupted. In fact it pervades our whole being, our whole life.  It makes sense then to hand over our HEART to Christ, for Him then to do the make over of the deceitfulness and corruption, so that the right thoughts and actions are forthcoming in our lives.

[faith & hope 2017]

Yes, there is good in humankind because we are a remnant of the God's image. 

Humans are considered to be both, basically good and basically bad.  Being the remnant of the God's image within us, we are good.  However, because our heart being the center of our being is corrupt, deceitful, and cannot be trusted makes us basically bad.  We are a mixture of both. 

When we displays underlying  selfishness which is influnced to our genetic character and environment structure. When we do not share, withhold information that may be critical or vital to a situation or person, do things that only benefit oneself. 

A deceitful corrupts us in a pervasive way by haboring ill feelings and evil thoughts that may destroy the essential of our being.  It can overpower a person to lash out destructively harming a person physically or slander a person's reputation.  A deceitful heart can breed insecurities and hatred. 

 

[JOLLAM BANDA]

No there is no good in humankind because we are lost in sin by nature. Humans are both good and bad. They are good because they were created in the image of God and they are bad because the heart, the very center of our being, is corrupt and cannot be trusted. Our whole being is at least somewhat corrupt and, therefore, even the "good" in us cannot be completely trusted. The following are some of the ways a deceitful heart shows up, evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean. The origin of all these is the heart.

[Old Jerry]

Without the help of God there would be no good in humankind. So, humans are basically bad. We can sometimes be both. Our deceitful heart will tell us something is good when it isn’t. If it weren’t for God, we would all be running around doing bad things.

[Lisa Wolf]

Q8. (Jeremiah 17:9) Is there good in humankind? Are humans basically good or basically bad? Or both? What are some of the ways a “deceitful heart” shows up in our lives and motivations? If the heart is the innermost person, how does a “deceitful heart” corrupt us in a pervasive way? 

Jeremiah 17:4-14 canvases this topic.  God's Word contrasts those who trust in themselves and those who trust in Lord's Faithfulness. Yes, we are made in the image of God.  His stamp is upon us.  We have good from Him.  Unfortunately we also have bad inherited from man's rebellion in the garden. Since both are simultaneously within our human nature, our hearts are deceitful. We can justify anything--and make even the worst evil choice seem like a good idea.

[HCDukes]

Topic: Deceitful Heart

Q8. Jeremiah 17:9 ( AMP)

“The heart is deceitful above all things And it is extremely sick; Who can understand it fully and know its secret motives? [Matt 13:15-17; Mark 7:21-23; Eph 4:20-24]”

“FOR THIS NATION’S HEART HAS GROWN HARD, AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY HARDLY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE [tightly] CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART, AND TURN [to Me] AND I WOULD HEAL THEM [spiritually].’ [Is 6:9] But blessed [spiritually aware, and favored by God] are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. [Luke 10:23, 24] I assure you and most solemnly say to you, many prophets and righteous men [who were honorable and in right standing with God] longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.”

“For from within, [that is] out of the heart of men, come base and malevolent thoughts and schemes, acts of sexual immorality, thefts, murders, adulteries, acts of greed and covetousness, wickedness, deceit, unrestrained conduct, envy and jealousy, slander and profanity, arrogance and self-righteousness and foolishness (poor judgment). All these evil things [schemes and desires] come from within and defile and dishonor the man.”

“But you did not learn Christ in this way! If in fact you have [really] heard Him and have been taught by Him, just as truth is in Jesus [revealed in His life and personified in Him], that, regarding your previous way of life, you put off your old self [completely discard your former nature], which is being corrupted through deceitful desires, and be continually renewed in the spirit of your mind [having a fresh, untarnished mental and spiritual attitude], and put on the new self [the regenerated and renewed nature], created in God’s image, [godlike] in the righteousness and holiness of the truth [living in a way that expresses to God your gratitude for your salvation].”‭‭

Question(s):

1)Is there good in humankind? 

2)Are humans basically good or bad?  Or both?

3)What are some of the ways a "deceitful heart" shows up in our lives and motivations?

4)If the heart is the innermost person, how does a "deceitful heart" corrupt us in a pervasive way? 

Answer(s): 

1)Yes and No. Yes, there is good in man or humankind that has put on Christ (i.e. those who have been regenerated and renewed in nature). 

Conversely, there is No good in man or in humankind, for those who have not been regenerated or renewed in nature through Christ. 

2)According to Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things And it is extremely sick; Who can understand it fully and know its secret motives. That tells me that humans are basically bad (due to their inherent sin nature).

3)They show up in all the unrighteous things we do. Whenever we do or say things from an impure heart and impure motives. 

4)Because out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Also what is in the heart of a person comes through in their actions (what is done in the dark, comes to light).