Q39. Forgiveness

[Pastor Ralph]

Q39. (Matthew 5:38-39; Romans 12:19; 13:4) Why are unforgiveness and humility incompatible with each other? Why must we distinguish between personal forgiveness and judicial determination and sentencing?

[Clelie]

Unforgiveness comes from a proud wounded spirit . There is no love for ennemies. Repaying evil for evil, seeking revenge are the marks of a proud person who can,t let go of any affront. 
 

personal forgiveness is letting God do the judgement.Some issues need to  be judged  in public prosecution. A judge or a panel of judges will determine according to the law how to execute punishment to the culprit. 

 

[Nicolaas A.P. Mostert]

Q39. (Matthew 5:38-39; Romans 12:19; 13:4)

Why are unforgiveness and humility incompatible with each other?

Unforgiveness has a negative side while humility has positive side. 

Why must we distinguish between personal forgiveness and judicial determination and sentencing?

At the personal level we are called to forgive. But at the judicial level, the judging and sentencing is in someone else's hands.

Justice includes fair investigation, evaluation by authorized judges and/or jurors, and a sentence according to law based on the findings. We are forgivers, not judges.

[George L]

Q39. (Matthew 5:38-39; Romans 12:19; 13:4)

1. Why are unforgiveness and humility incompatible with each other? If I do not enter into forgiveness I am placing my self above them a prideful, better than position. A failing to acknowledge the tremendous price Christ oaid for my sins. Humility recognizes the mutual need for submission of our desires to Christs desire to work upon the heart of the one who wronged us.
2. Why must we distinguish between personal forgiveness and judicial determination and sentencing? Good order and discipline requires a society to maintain a standard of acceptable behavior. Crossing the line must be judged both on its effect in the wrong. But also on the continuance of such behavior upon the society itself. That is the responsibility upon us for placing proper value people in position to do this judging of transgressing the norms and standards.

[hanks]

Q39. (MATTHEW 5:38-39; ROMANS 12:19; 13:4) 
Why are unforgiveness and humility incompatible with each other? Why must we distinguish between personal forgiveness and judicial determination and sentencing? 
In unforgiveness there is a focus on self – the injustice done to us. Whereas in humility the focus is on God and others. This point of focus is not compatible with each other. On a personal level our desire should not be for vengeance but rather to love and forgive. Here only the Holy Spirit can give us the strength required. On a judicial level we should leave it to God to apply justice if needed. Vengeance is God's right, and we should not interfere with what is His right. He will repay at the proper time and in the proper manner. 
 

[Lisa Wolf]

Q39. (Matthew 5:38-39; Romans 12:19; 13:4) Why are unforgiveness and humility incompatible with each other? Why must we distinguish between personal forgiveness and judicial determination and sentencing?

Unforgiveness and humility are incompatible because they are opposing.  Humility holds others in high regard; unforgiveness refuses to see another as a person with faults and foibles just as we are.  Jesus taught us to love even our enemies.  Personal forgiveness can be granted by us at any time we choose; however, sin has consequences.  If a person has done wrong, Romans 13:4&5 are still true, "For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."

 

[epiphone8]

To have a spirit of forgiveness towards others we must be humble. The Lord’s prayer states it very clearly, if we are to ask God to forgive all our sins we must show the same mercy to others. If we’re unforgiving that shows a prideful heart. 

We have judicial systems in place to bring justice to wrongdoings. They’re not perfect but they help to maintain order in society. Regardless of a judicial system’s effectiveness, vengeance is not ours. We’re called to forgive and trust in God’s ultimate perfect justice.

[Krissi]

This is the most difficult lesson in the series -- forgiving enemies and foregoing justice.

We forgive because deep inside the Spirit has given us the ability to discern between right v. wrong and therefore judge when we have been maltreated or unjustly regarded. We are not asked to set aside the ideal of justice when it comes to interpersonal relations, but rather trust that justice will be served by Him. We forgive precisely because we know that He has promised to settle scores and reward righteousness that judgment requires. We trust God, that is, to avenge us. We hold Him to this glorious and comforting promise -- “It is mine to avenge; I will repay.” We beg Him to make good on both his promise for retribution and His promise that we who have been stolen from or harmed will have our prior good lives restored many-fold. "Instead of your shame you will receive a double portion, and instead of disgrace you will rejoice in your inheritance. And so you will inherit a double portion in your land, and everlasting joy will be yours."

Justice involves restoration as well as retribution.

• Without His promises, injustice on the earth would remain unjudged and triumph over justice. 
• With these promises, injustice on earth is judged ... though we may not see it in our lifetimes. Justice may be delayed, but faith believes that if we wait long enough, even unto death, we will be vindicated and rewarded. It's very difficult to wait for justice. Our nature cries out to have the innocent avenged NOW while they suffer, not later when it seems too late. To be vindicated after death would be cruel and meaningless unless we were certain there was life after death and what happened here on earth wasn't the last word of God.

The distinction between personal and judicial doesn't make sense. Without a sense of justice, forgiving would be meaningless. Whether that ideal concept of justice comes from the courts, family, Bible, inner Spirit or heart matters not as long as it doesn't contradict the bible. Without an idea of justice rattling around the back of my mind, there would be no need to forgive just an amorphous anger. So the knowledge of justice in itself makes forgiveness possible: because I both crave and demand justice (and am innocent or victimized), I forgive. Any hurt and anger that remains is a toxic residue of faithlessness I must continually give back to God. I believe He'll deal justly not only with the evil people in this world/government but also softly and gently remove the pain and suffering they caused. 

When the government promotes injustice, our "just" response is not to sit back and wait for God to clean up the mess -- we are NOT to be passive onlookers who wring their limp hands, bunker down with a few years of food storage or look away callously. We have a positive Biblical command to serve others in society, worship Him fully, evangelize all we meet, promote true justice as well as fight injustice, defend those who are innocent, hungry, impoverished, have their livelihood taken from them, are regulated/legislated into poverty and otherwise made powerless and miserable. We must rescue people from the government's long tentacles. This may involve passionately exposing and combatting the government by speaking truth, becoming politically active and if need be, engaging in civil disobedience.

Ultimately, we obey God. First. Wholly. Not the state. Not others in the church. Not social pressure. Not even our families. I believe that is the real meaning that lays itself behind the verse, "If people come to me and are not ready to abandon their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as their own lives, they cannot be my disciples. ... “

When we prayerfully judge the state to be evil and are in a position to ameliorate that evil -- or could be in that position -- we must do this. If we can ameliorate evil within the system, it's best to not transgress those boundaries and cleverly use the Leviathan against itself. But, these days we are increasingly faced with an evil Leviathan that can't be reformed from within. Thus, we must humbly ask God what we should do. And then do it.

Christian civil disobedience means obeying God when/if God's Holy commands contradict mere governmental edicts. We disobey knowing we'll pay the consequences for putting God first. Even if the state murders us, we do NOT submit to injustice, immorality and evil demands against ourselves or others ... unless He tells us to wait.

Only God is our master.

So, yes, we judge. Then we forgive in interpersonal relations and stand firm in socio-political matters.

[Old Jerry]

The reason that unforgiveness and humility are incompatible is because if you don’t forgive then you are saying you are too proud to forgive. Personal forgiveness has nothing to do with judicial determination and sentencing. Personal forgiveness is something that you have to do from the heart and that will clear the mind. Judicial determination is what happens to the other person.