Q4. Abraham's Ethics and Faith

[Paul H]

It is difficult to judge at such a distance of time and cultures the morals and ethics of the actions themselves, but the fact is that Abraham and Sarah both lied, or at least told a half truth, which at least judging by most standards would be considered morally wrong. More importantly though in the context of what I think this passage is saying to us is that Abraham's and to a lesser extent Sarah's actions could be seen as evidence of Abraham trying to resolve the situation which they were in in his own way without relying on God. Does this show a lack of faith on Abraham's part? Yes, it probably does. What the story does show is that whatever happens God stays true to his covenant. He protects Abraham and Sarah and indeed seems to enrich them as a result of the whole episode. He also curses those who curse Abraham as He had promised He would.

The fact of God staying true to His covenant can be of crucial significance to us today and has been particularly significant for me personally. I had strayed very far away from God for a number of years (and what a waste those years were), and yet, when I turned back to Him, there He still was just as He had promised that He always would be.

[Peggy Crans]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

How human we all are. I don't know how it was living back then but it seems that Abraham's fear was very real. She really was his half sister which was true, but he omitted that she was his wife, which was deceitful. They did show a lack of faith.

I think they were wrong. Abraham seemingly forgot the promise God had made and how faithful He is.

These stories are learning tools for us to remember that we can always count on God, no matter what the circumstance is. He is faithful to us even when we feel there is not hope for us. GOD IS OUR ONLY HOPE.

[Lionbait]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

When we decide that our way is the best way no matter what circumstances are. Then we find ourselves on sandy ground.

They decided to act outside Gods plan, fear caused them to question their faith and the proceedings cause pain for others as well.

When we lack faith we question Gods ability to handle the complex problems in out lives, we stay on safe ground, we rely on our old ways. The old ways never worked for us in the past why rely on them now. Abraham and Sarah lack of faith is something we can learn from.

[Sarah43]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

While I don't doubt that Abraham and Sarah had faith and ethics, their behavior regarding deception and adultery did take me aback. One cannot justify and say, well they were only a little bit sinful, but altogether they were justified. That is like being a little bit pregnant. I believe they were trying to survive, and I also believe that, as Pastor Ralph has indicated, Abraham did not just stop seeking God and start sinning. God put a stop to the behavior through punishment of the Pharoah and Abimilech.

I do not know what lessons we should learn from thse stories, except that adultery is wrong and God will punish it if allowed to continue. Also, Abraham was truly watched over by God.

[Seeking His Face]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

I think it shows our flawed human nature. We respond to what we see and feel, not what we know( the word, promises of God).I think we work things out in own mind to protect ourself and blame others, when we fall short. No the purpose is to show that God is faithful to His word, He does not change to his surrounding, He is not like us. God is faithful to every last word He has promised, I don't have to worry about it, He is more than trustworthy

[hanks]

Q4.

What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith?

Are they ethically and morally wrong?

Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith?

What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

I think by going into a strange country knowing all the inherent dangers they showed faith and trusted God for their safety. The half-truth they told was only an extra precautionary measure and was not ethically or morally wrong; they still relied on God for their safety. The fact that they emerged wealthier proves that God was with them and that God kept His promise of blessing them (12:3). The lesson I learn from all of this is that God is faithful to keep His promises!

[l.a.]

I confess, because the actions of Abraham and Sarah in today's lesson look deceitful and faithless, they are hard to understand. I thank God for this study! It has revealed things about the 'times' that greatly influence one's personal decisions. It made me think of what one from another time would think of some of our 'common practices' that we have come to accept as part of our culture. In the bible stories, God makes it clear what He finds intolerable. If we look at God's reaction to the situation, we must come to the conclusion that there is more there than meets our eyes. Sometimes we do not understand God's plan, but all things work out for good to those who love God.

[Foofee's Nana]

What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith?

I think at best they are like us as humans, we see what we should do and fear takes over. So they chose to "bend" the truth.....like we have done in our culture today. Yes, it was a lie.....and we sit here centuries latger and see the wrong and do the same thing.

Are they ethically and morally wrong?

I would think they are wrong...not only do they slip...but they allow others to be punished and if not for the dreams of God to commit adultery.

Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith?

I do not think the scripture intends this to focus as much on their lack of faith...but rather God's everlasting mercy and faithfulness.

What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

To trust ....and trust.....and if that fails....TRUST some more. It is not God who moves from us,but rather us in always trying to explian or cover our actions we forget that He is a kind and loving Father.

[Pearl]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

I think that Abraham and Sarahs's faith in God was still at a baby stage. They had not yet learned how to trust God with their total lives. Who am I to judge? Scripture does not intend to show their action as a lack of faith, but it does show us that God is in charge of every situation and that God Himself is our Avenger.

[Alan8]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

I like what someone has said: God paints His saints warts and all. Understand the first time Abraham has just begun his walk with God. Has any of us had a perfect walk from the very beginning? If we had we wouldn't be here. After the first time you would think that Abraham would have learned to trust God so the second time would be different. Maybe God put it in the Word to let us know if we flunked the test the first time we will go through it again. After all the years experience the test came around again and it was the same response. I am not in Abraham's shoes and I wouldn't want to be. Despite Abraham's lack of faith, God is faithful to Abraham. That is the lesson in these accounts - not to see how much we can get away with but how faithful our God really is!

[Spen]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? I think it shows the humanity of both

as they react to the world they live in. They use human reasoning and guile as they face the unknown..

Much like Adam and Eve in the garden covering themselves with fig leaves, trying to resolve their fears

with what they feel is expedient. Another parallel with Abram

[pastor neal]

Ethically, I believe that Abraham and Sarah walk a very thin line. Neither one felt compeled to disclose their true relationship out of fear for Abraham's life. They had a loop-hole which they used when they found it convienient and used it several times.

Although there is no supporting evidence that their actions were motivated by a lack of faith, nor is there testimony for their not seeking God's help, a thorough understanding and study of Abraham demonstrates his devotion and faith to the Lord, hence, it is not a generous leap to believe that he actually had sought the assistance of the Lord through prayer.

This lesson does not constitute a parable with a distinct lesson, however, I believe that it demonstrates the outcome and ramifications involved with deceitful practices.

[mc'el4life]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

I think they are okay as I think God orchestrated everything to make His promise come to pass.

I don't think they are wrong in any form because God's thought and ways are different from ours. He can orchestrate anything, make something good out of whatever action we take at any point in time despite the our ethic or moral judgement.

I don't think the scripture intend to show their actions as lack of faith in that the scripture described Abraham as the father of faith rather the scripture is trying to tell us how the Kings treat sojourners and the way God dealt with their sinful manners.

It teaches us believers that whatever the promise of God for us is, He will surely fulfill no matter what we think or anyone does to prevent it from happening it will manifest.

[wifee]

4a)I shouldn’t judge only God knows their hearts & I haven’t been under their pressures in order to stay alive.It speaks of the weakness of man’s human flesh &cause of pain.

b)They were depending on God and trusting him for their lives. Esther trusted God too with Mordicai

c) God allows us to go through tough times to show our commitment to him, proving we can trust him, and this grows our faith.

d)God is faithful and keeps all his promises.

[royk]

Abram doesn't express so much about his faith. He didn't turn to God but relied on his own reasoning in going to Egypt and fears what will befall him there. Abram devised a plan to avoid what he feared, he seems to be just like me. I was supposed to become more faithful from studying this, instead I se more and more about how I rely on my own reasoning. Sometimes I believe God puts that reasoning into my mind; like when Daid acted crazy to save his own life. Was it God who gabe him the idea?

I don't think God intended that Abraham would lie about his wife being his sister, but it must ahve been

god's plan, when we so how it worked out.

God have a plan, and it may not be what we thought it owuld be; but His will shall be done, subject closed! Praise God, let us hear Him and obey Him, and follow His will.

There are consequences to each of our actions, God knows our choices in advance; is He not leading us and everything under His powerful will?

[joy irowa]

they were wrong but not to be crucified because we are also guilty of such mistakes at times

yes, they lack faith at that point in time

learn to trust God for our safety

[Old Jerry]

I think that Abraham’s and Sarah’s ethics and faith are a little weak. I don’t know much about the ethics of the day but in our Christian standards that wasn’t the right thing to do. I think that the Scripture was intended to show that their action was a lack of faith.

The lesson that we should take away from these stories is that we should relay on our faith to get us through the tough times.

[Craig]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

 

I think Abraham and Sarah just did what they felt they had to do under circumstances that they understood.  I think they compromised their ethics and morality in seeking to survive.  The scriptures do not criticize them for lack of faith in either of these circumstances. 

 

Lessons that we disciples can learn from these stories are that God keeps his promises and that we should always trust in God.

 

[Ernie's Son]

A. As to Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith, It's often easy to be quick to point a finger without having walked in another person's shoes.  This just might be the case here.

 

I just don't understand Abraham risking Sarah to save his own neck; yet, he prays for "Abimelech, his wife and his slave girls so they could have children again" (20:17).  How could a person be in the wrong, and have such a relationship with God that his prayers are answered?  Our author mentions that "nowhere is there a hint of censure towards Abraham."

 

Abraham and Sarah made decisions about their ethics and faith according to their own understanding.  Abraham has a number of excuses given in (20:11-13).  If she (Sarah) loved him she would say that he was her brother.  It doesn't seem she had much to say about the situation other than what she was told to say.  How could this play out with the "promise" in mind?

 

B. Were they ethically and morally wrong? Since the kings didn't speak for God, what can we use from them?  There are a number of things to look at: Abraham and Sarah was at the mercy of the kings; for Abraham, if they tell the truth, he will be killed; the both deceive the kings.

 

The kings had done wrong in taking the wife of another man; so, they certainly were not in the clear.  To them Abraham and Sarah was wrong.  Sounds like they need to get the log out of their eyes so they can see clearly.  Although they had not committed adultery, they must have done some wrong for being afflicted.

 

Were Abraham and Sarah wrong?  Probably in today's society, but maybe not so in their time frame?  Abraham survived by doing what he felt he had to do and was not censured by God.

 

C. Was their actions a lack of faith?  Instead of falling on the mercy of God for His deliverance, they would work the situation out themselves.  Did they not have a lapse in faith by not looking to God for His deliverance to fulfill the promises He made?  "No where does the Scripture say that they did not seek God in these instances" (Dr. Wilson).

 

D. As to the lessons we should learn from these stories: God intervenes in our story to keep His promises even as unworthy as we may be.  "God has made a covenant with Abraham and will allow nothing to prevent its fulfillment" (Dr. Wilson).

 

 

 

[lighthouse2014]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

It would seem that Abraham and Sarah"s ethics and faith were a bit shaky. Being sojourners in foreign where there was no protection from the king, these people were usually frowned upon, robbed and sexually abused. Abraham was in fear of his life because of Sarah's beauty, so they lied about their relationship. Though God promised Abraham a land of his own and that his offspring would be a blessing to all the people of the world, they did not rely on God to take care of them during times of famine as they sojourned.

They probably were not ethically or morally wrong. It seems their culture at the time was to survive.

Scripture shows that their actions, especially Abraham's, was a weak faith. They did not depend on God to care for them. But God is faithful, he did not allow Sarah to be defiled and rescued them both by judging the kings who had taken Sarah for wife.

As disciples we should learn from these stories of Abraham and Sarah, that God will take care of us, we are his and he is faithful to his word. Abraham and Sarah did not depend on God but rather relied on their cultural up bringing to fend for themselves, which could have cost them their lives.  

[Rosesam]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

Even though Abraham is called the Father of Faith, he did not earn this title overnight. There were situations and circumstances in his life that caused him to grow in faith. He has come afar from the then idol worshiper of Ur, but he still had some old habits left over from his days as Abram. He still struggles to trust in the Lord and often reverts to the old patterns of sin. And in the process he drags Sarah also to partner with him in his actions.

When Abimelech questions Abraham he resorts to three classic excuses for sin. First, he claims ignorance saying that he did not know whether there was fear of God in that place. Abraham’s point was that he was acting reasonably when he lied and that his lie was justified under the circumstances to save his life. But God was more than capable of handling Abimelech or anyone and so Abraham’s lie was completely unjustified. Secondly, Abraham argues that it was really not a lie at all because Sarah was his sister, a half-sister in truth. But the real truth was that Sarah was his wife. He failed to disclose the obviously important detail that they were married. Abraham is too busy explaining away his guilt rather than embracing it and learning from it. Finally Abraham gives the third classic excuse for his sin, he blames God and circumstances. He says it was God who caused him to leave the protection and security of his home, implying that it was God who forced Abraham to resort to this tactic, by bringing him into such a position.

We cannot lie and be sinless, for lying is proof that we don’t trust God. God may allow situations in our live in order to convict us and then we need to be convicted rather than running into pointless excuses. God does not cause us to sin. Whatever be the circumstances or situations that we are placed in He is well able to rescue us from it.

[Godswriter]

Q4. What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith? Are they ethically and morally wrong? Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith? What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

I believe that they were not trusting God enough for His protection and how He would save them from evil men. In a way they both knew that God could save them from certain death. It was wrong for them both to engage in an act of deceit in order to save their lives. I believe so. That we need to trust God for our protection.

[Paula Price]

This is my response to questions 4 and 5 .  I do not want to dwell on whether Abraham and Sara were right or wrong.. What I do want to focus on is What and How God dealt with their actions.

I believe God used these instances to show his glory and might to people who did not worship Him or know Him.. They were pagan Kings who did not know of the one true and living God that Abraham and Sarah worshipped.  They did not believe in God and had no covenant to keep with Him...They worshipped other gods.. They considered themselves a god...these kings that were in the  land that God promised to Abraham....Egypt was a land of pagans.....  their kings were not chosen by Abrahams God... God made promises to Abraham to make him rich with lands and riches...This is one way he fulfilled that promise...He also introduced Himself to those kings by coming to them in dreams and by making them aware of His glory and His might and His power... Until this time, these kings and peoples had not witness such power of presences from the gods they worshipped!  In each instances, the kings returned Sarah and let them both leave with their lives and a great big fortune...These kings feared Abraham's God!!!! They had no such fear of the gods they worshipped...their gods did not have power as Abraham's GOD!!.  I am sure that rumors were spread through out the land of the God of Abraham and how powerful and mighty He Is to make them treat Abraham the way they did when they found out his deception... anyone else until then would have been put to death no doubt...No one else would have had the nerve to lie to the king, in fear of what would happen to them when they were found out... God is using Abraham and Sarah as instruments to establish Himself in the land and a world who does not know of Him.....He is using Abraham, to show the world that HE IS GOD, THE ONE TRUE LIVING GOD, and that every one will come to know and fear Him.....

We are not to judge Abraham or Sarah, that is not what God is trying to teach us ...Whether they were right or wrong,, is not the question....what they did or said is not for us to judge... but we are to take from these lessons is the might and the glory and the power of God to make believers of all people and to show them who HE IS and that no one else can compare to Him...

WHAT A MIGHTY GOD WE SERVE!!  GREAT AND AWSOME!  The old Scriptures are God's word on what He requires of us....We are to fear Him   We are to trust Him We are to obey Him. .We are to have no other god before Him.... He is  faithful to His followers and true to His word...He is a forgiver of sin when we repent.....He loves us even when we are not perfect.....

[Irmela]

What do you think about Abraham's and Sarah's ethics and faith?

I think they acted in the way, which they thought was right. They had a whole group of people under their protection. Even in what they did they could have been trusting and believing that God would protect them. 

Are they ethically and morally wrong?

Maybe not in their eyes. They sure did what they felt was best. 

Does the Scripture intend to show that their actions as a lack of faith?

I think it shows that God is in control, no matter what decisions we make. 

What lessons should we disciples learn from these stories?

To trust God and not make decisions without Him. 

[Krissi]

I think they are ethically and morally wrong.

 

 Abraham’s lies, lessening faithlessness, willingness to let his wife be sexually abused, disobedience (taking his family from Ur and not just himself) and more should NOT be written off as historically conditioned behavior. This was the behavior of the man the Bible calls the “father of faith.” Abraham actually did these things. Yet, simultaneously, he is also considered to be a great man of faith.

He is not described not as a great ethical and moral man, but only as a great man of faith.

Those whom God loves deeply because their faith is ever-growing can be flawed ethically. I'm not saying that sin doesn't impact faith, but that one's faith can remain intact and even grow after sin.

The equivalence we tend to draw between faith and ethics is understandable, but not supported by the stories of Abraham (and others such as David). It is possible to be very faith-filled and marginally ethical – conversely, it’s possible to have weak or no faith and be ethically pristine. We like to think that a faith-filled person will manifest ethical behavior, and for the most part, this is true, but there may be a lag time between new and growing faith and it’s outworking as behavior. That’s what I think happened to Abraham.

His faith started at zero. He didn’t know God. He was a polytheist with the ethical values and behavior of polytheists living in Mesopotamia at that time. After God’s appearance, he seems to have been instantly converted to the idea of monotheism, one true God, but the character of God was still a mystery to him. Slowly, he learned about God and slowly his behavior changed, but the order is learning about God first, and only then putting that knowledge to action.

The lag time between faith and it’s outworking in ethics is quite obvious, at least to me, in the life of Abraham.