Q4. Baptism as the Sign of the Covenant

[obnubilate]

The circumcision was a sign of setting apart oneself for God's holy purposes. Apparently, humans fail terribly in that as demonstrated by the history of Israel. We are prone to rebellion against God, and like a dog returning to its own vomit, will return to sin despite circumcision. God, of course knows this. That's why he gave the sign of baptism where we actually 'die' to our old self and be resurrected with Christ and in Him we may gain eternal life.

[Alicea]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Circumcision is now obsolete because the sign of our covenant with God is now spiritual, it became that way when the Holy Spirit was poured out on both Jew and Gentile. Circumcision was the outward sign of a Jew being of Jewish faith, baptism is the outward sign of our Christian faith.

[Sue]

Lesson 6 Q4:

In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Circumcision was a sign of the old covenant and baptism is a sign of the new covenant. Both circumcision and baptism are outward or physical acts of accepting the old and new covenants. Because of the Crucifixion of Christ, circumcision is no longer an issue. With Baptism it identifies Christ's suffering for us. Baptism circumcises us spiritual. I believe that we do not have to be baptized to be saved, like the Gentiles felt they did not require to be circumcised as part of their salvation. Acts 15:9,11: "made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith...We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are". The New Covenant is with Jesus Christ and when he accended into heaven, God sent the Holy Spirit. Therefore, when we accept what Jesus done for us into our hearts we receive the seal of the Holy Spirit. It is because of the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved". Baptism identifies us with Christ which is important but not essential. It is an outward expression of our Faith so the whole Faith community will know what life we are living. Our fruits will really tell!

[warrior]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

With Jesus fulfilling the law of the Old Testament we came under a new and better covenant of grace. The ritual of circumcision was a outward sign of a covenant between man and God, since Jesus had not fulfilled the law it was a part of God's law at the time to show the death of the flesh and putting aside of sin to dedicate ones life to God.

Now after the new covenant we are baptized to bury the old man, our flesh in Jesus death and arise a new man resurrected with Him in righteouness. The circumcision did nothing to change the heart just an obedience to the law, if one really burys the old man to rise in righteouness with Jesus Christ his heart and life are changed forever.

[sjb]

Circumcision of males was the mosaic symbol used to show that God's people were set apart, awaiting the coming of the Messiah. In modern times, male babies are circumcised to avoid health issues later on in life. Had the law been kept, there would not have been a religion called Christianity, but those who believed in Christ would have been a Jewish sect or "denomination." I think Paul, James, and the others hashed that out years ago. You see, Jesus told everyone that He would send the Spirit...and boy, did He! The Spirit works in the heart of the unbeliever to convict; then at the time of conversion, the Spirit comes into our hearts to dwell there. Because we need an outward symbol or ritual to help us remember, we use baptism. Again, by going through this study, I am going deeper into my thinking than I've ever done in the past. I've just sat here and talked myself into a better understanding of infant baptism. In my particular church, accepted baptism rituals can be sprinkling, pouring, or immersion--so infant baptism is included. But we also believe in one baptism only. I did not have my four children baptised as infants for that reason. To me, part of that wonderful feeling would have been lost for them--that true remembrance--had they been baptised as infants, and then gone through a confirmation ceremony only. Now, through this study, I see that if we are comparing circumcision to baptism, since male babies were circumcised at 8 days of age, that had to represent a ritual of dedication for the parents and family, rather than the babies themselves.

[mwright]

God has given us a new covenant through Jesus Christ and the Holy Sprit. This covenant is now of the sprit. It is open to all so there is no longer a need for external physical markings. We are all the same throught faith in Jesus Christ. In Romans, Paul tell us that salvation comes through faith not through works. If this is true then the covenant that we are living under is a covenant of Faith. Did that Baptism change the spritial you? That is the question now. We can see how circumcision changed you, but only you and God through the Son and the Holy Sprit know how how Baptism has changed you. The amount of water is not important the feelings are.

Mike

[joanharmelink]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

In the Old Testament one was under the old covenant ( circumscision and in the New Testament baptism was commanded. Circumscision w s an outward sign of dying to self and set apaart to do what the law required and in the N.T. we die to self (the water signifies be buried with Christ and risen with Him also. Circumscion is also called circumscion of the heart.

[JustJeff]

Circumcision is not obsolete for Christians. It was never intended for Gentiles in terms of a covenant with God. This was an agreement made between Abraham and Adonai for the Jewish people as His chosen ones and, as a seal for that covenant. Baptism on the other hand, is a willingness by a person to turn their hearts to the Lord. Thus it becomes a circumcision of the heart.

[Patricia A]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Jesus died on the cross for our sins and his flesh was torn off which is likened to circumcisism. In baptism, we are buried and raised up with Christ and the Holy Spirit lives in our hearts which is circumcisism of the heart.

Circumcism was for the Old Testament but Baptism seals the Covenant in the New Testament.

In Romans, Paul tell us that salvation comes through faith not through works. If this is true then the covenant that we are living under is a covenant of Faith.

[Patricia A]

In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

[Jewell]

Circumcism was the physical act of cleansing the body - the commitment to God, the outward showing of that commitment. Baptism is an internal commitment from the heart, the outward showing of that commitment is in the way we live.

[Commissioned]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Jesus came and brought a new covenant, that covenant require that we need no longer perform the ritual of the old circumcision which was a cutting of the flesh, but now require that we follow Christ in baptism as we identify with His crucifixion, burial, and resurrection and our hearts are circumcised or purified.

[emmaus]

The Israilites were under the law and were obeying. Circumcision was an outward sign of their covenant with God. Where now we worship God in spirit. We were dead in our sins, but when we are baptized our sins are washed away. Our sins are buried and our hearts are clean and new through faith in Jesus.

[Craig]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Our outward Christian testament of faith is baptism. That is our acknowledgment that we are accepting and participating in the New Covenant in Christ Jesus offered by Yahew for forgiveness of sin and fellowship with God.

[servant for Christ]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Circumcision in the flesh is not enough. In the Old Testament the people had to sacrifice animals for their sins, they did not have a change in the heart. Circumcision was a sigh if a covenant with the Lord. Today, our covenant is through Jesus Christ. He was our blood bought covenant. Baptism is a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit. We have been raised with Christ by our faith in the power of God. We have been raised spiritually and it is the seal of the Holy Spirit that lives in us.

[masika]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

True circumcision, is heart circumcision (Rom. 2:25-29), which is also no doubt what the Abrahamic covenant sought (c Rom. 4:10). Paul can even use circumcision to describe the transition from wrath to grace: "In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses" (Col. 2:11, 13).

Whereas under the old covenant circumcision is the rite of entering the priestly nation--not equated with salvation for Abraham was saved long before he was circumcised (Rom. 4:9ff.)--under the new covenant spiritual circumcision is associated with the reception of salvation (Col 2:11ff.). What has happened is a change in the covenant. In the old covenant era priesthood and salvation were distinguished. In the covenant with Abraham, gentiles could be saved, but they could not come near to God, unless they had been granted a special priesthood like that of Melchizedek. In ancient Israel the Levites had special privilege, but not so great as the family of Aaron. Israelites, Levites, and the family of Aaron are all priests in some sense. But Gentiles are not. They may be saved, but they cannot approach God's throne.

The complex priestly system of the old covenant is done away in the new. In the new covenant all members of the covenant are priests, whether they are Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female, receive the new covenant equivalent of circumcision, baptism:

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:26-29).

When Paul says that Jews and Greeks, bond and free, male and female are all one in Christ, he does not mean that all biological, social, or even theological distinctions between these groups disappear. Christian men do not begin to bear children. Slaves do not automatically become free when they profess faith. And when Paul goes from city to city, he continues to follow the rule, "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." But all--Jews, Greeks, men, women, slaves and free--are heirs of Abraham, kings and priests in God's kingdom (1 Pet. 2:5, 9). Baptism, then, is offered to all. It is their official induction into the priesthood.

[Paul H]

In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Actually Pastor Ralph, this is a really difficult question, but let me give it a go from my very limited knowledge. The old covenant and the new covenant are, it seems to me, two entirely different things. The covenant which God made with Abraham was to (1) make Abraham the father of many nations, make him fruitful and make nations and kings come out of him; (2) be the God of Abraham and his descendents; and (3) give to Abraham and his descendents the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession. Abraham's side of the covenant was circumcision for himself, his household, his descendents and everyone who came into their households. This covenant is not obsolete. It still goes on, but it is irrelevant to Christians who are not also Jews because for Christians, the only part of this covenant which would be relevant to them, namely the part about God being their God has been superseded by Christ. By shedding His blood as the new covenant, Jesus offered us a way to God through the forgiveness of sins and therefore it is through this new covenant, made possible by the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, that God can become our God rather than having to rely on the old covenant (of which circumcision is still a part).

I do not think though that baptism is our part of the new covenant, in the same way as circumcision was Abraham's part in the old covenant. Baptism is a ritual which Christians go through to symbolize in a physical way that we have died to ourselves and to the World with Christ, been buried and have then been raised up again, new in Christ. It is though, in my view, only a symbol. What is important is that in reality, in our hearts we have died to ourselves and the world and been born again in Christ. If this has happened in reality then the way in which a Christian is baptised, whether by total immersion of sprinkling, is therefore irrelevant, what is crucial is the reality which that baptism symbolises. That reality is what I think is meant by the circumcision of the heart.

So, that is it in my own words and hopefully I haven't said anything heretical!! It is an interesting question though because it does raise issues of what it means to be a Christian and a part of the new covenant.

[Peggy Crans]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

There is baptism for all, men and women alike. Men, in Biblical times were circumcised as a sign of the covenant, not women although there were true women of failth . Baptism is our sign of relationship with Christ, that we have a circumcised heart, a covenent relationship with Him and are covered by the blood of Jesus. I'm sure circumcision is still taking place, for religious reasons or personal reasons. Baptism takes place in all Christian churches as a sign of the covenant we have. This was a difficult question to put into words .

[Lionbait]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Circumcision was the completed command of God to the chosen people, as baptism by full immersion is to the born again believer in Christ Jesus.

It is a joy to praise Our Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus Christ by following His commands.

[Seeking His Face]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Circumcision was outward sign of agreeing to the covenant, but it was completely external. Nothing changed on the inside, and every year a sacrifice had to be made to cover there sin. Under the new covenant when I excepted the shed blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin and my outward expression through baptism showed what had happened on the inside ( to my heart ). Jesus Christ now lives in me and at baptism I died and was raised in Christ

[hanks]

Q4.

In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

The way I understand circumcision is that under the Old Covenant, Jews were under the Law and were circumcised to remind them of their covenant with God. It was a symbolic physical act which did not soften their hearts. The history of the Jews showed that they continually shunned God and looked to pagan gods. Jesus came and earned our salvation when He died on the cross. We are now saved by grace. We repent of our sins and believe and trust in Jesus as our Saviour. We are born again; a new creature! We receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the new nature of God. I

[l.a.]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

I would explain the differences in circumcision and baptism in this way: Circumcision was an act of faith in God Almighty and His promises to His people, baptism is faith in the fulfillment of His promises through Jesus Christ, His son and our Lord. It is a representation of our belief that He has washed away our sins in His own blood and frees us to walk in the newness of life in Him.

[Foofee's Nana]

In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

After Christ, the old covenant of circumcion is pre-empted by the new covenant of baptism. The old covenant was a physical act of circumcision of the body, the flesh.....and was a promise of God to Abraham. But when Christ came and was crucified it was a true circumcision of the heart....to strip away that sin nature and follow Him in the act of obedience of baptism.

[Pearl]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

Cicumcision is now obsolete for Christians in that we are now living under Grace and not under the law. Baptism is a sign that we have died and are resurrected to a new life with Christ.

[Alan8]

Q4. In your own words, how would you explain why circumcision is now obsolete for Christians and that baptism is now sign of the covenant?

The act of circumcision was an outward act showing that something took place inwardly. Since Christ came and was crucified, Christ's flesh was stripped off corresponding to circumcision. When we are baptized we are identifying ourselves with Christ and His death, burial and resurrection. For the Christian it is an outward sign of something that has happened in his heart. That is why total immersion is the only way to picture that! As Jesus went down into the grave so do we. As Jesus came out of His tomb we come out of the water signifying we too are going to walk in newness of life just like Jesus!