Pastor Ralph Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Q4. (Judges 8:4-17) Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army?Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Angel Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 They refused to help Gideon because they were afraid of the Midianites, they refused to help Gideon "but in doing so they are committing a terrible breach of hospitality to their own kinsmen and a grave sin against the God of the Covenant." Gideon punished these cities because they refused to help him by providing food and nurishment to his men when he was pursuing the Midianites. I think that he was just in desiring punishment for the evil that was done against him and his troops, but paying eye by eye and evil with evil is not the answer. I think that when we as Christians refuse to help others, when we refuse to offer hospitality to those in need, we are doing the same thing that those mentioned cities did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 Question 4 The reason for the refusal of the cities of Succoth and Peniel refusal to help Gideon and his army was their fear of the Midianites and retaliation. At that time all they could think of was the fact that the Midianites had not been completely eradicated and they didn't have the same faith in God that Gideon did and they decided to take what they thought was the easy way out. Their sin at that time was they lacked faith and allegiance to the Lord and that they did not show love and compassion to Gideons army when they needed food (for the Lord has said that to whomever we feed when hungry we are also feeding Him). Gideon has no alternative but to punish the cities of Succoth and Peniel for the fact that they not only turned their backs on Gideon but also on the Lord. As to the whether a Christian now could be guilty of the sin of these two cities, I would say yes as there are times in our lives when we do not put our complete trust in the Lord and I am sure that there have been times in each of our lives when we have not shown the love and compassion to others that the Lord would have required of us - I know this is true in my own case but at least I am prepared to admit it and hope I will learn from these mistakes in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Beckner Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 It appears that Succoth and Peniel were afraid but I wonder if they didn't lack true dedication to God's work. Obviously, they didn't love their bretheren or they would have helped them. Gideon had to punish them to set an example to others. Could a Christian be guilty of this today? Absolutely. I have seen people rejected out of a church because of leaders opinions...Others in the church were afraid to help the one in distress because then they would be rejected. It is not a good thing. Anyway, Christ said "If you love me, feed my sheep." As I look at this story about the elders of these cities...I can't help but wonder about the responsibility of the leadership in the church today...how much more punishment they will bear if they don't feed the flock and feed them the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omie Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 + It seems as if they want to be on the winning side, even though as Israelite cities they hedge their bets. + Gideon becomes furious. Reminding them that *he will return as the victor* for God has so ordained it. + Their sin is two-fold; first their allegiance was to God, they also owed allegiance to Israel. + Our first allegiance is to God - to remember this is our charge. I think "What Would Jesus Do" is a good proverb for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggie Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Penial and Succoth were afraid that the Midianites had not been forever wiped out. Gideon was right in what he did, they should have shown allegiance to God and to Israel. I'm sure we have all fallen short along the way of not being as charitable as we should have been. The Bible warns to entertain strangers, we never know when one of them is an angel unaware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darleen Nelson Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Succoth and Peniel refused to help Gideon becuase they were afraid of the Midianites and they didn't trust God's promises. They were obligated by Jewish tradition to help their brothers but were so worried about Gideon and his small army not being able to finish the war they thought only of saving themselves and didn't think about God's power to save. Gideon had a right to punish them but his threat promised very severe punishment. Gideon could have let God do the punishment becuase these people also disobeyed God in rejecting help to His designated leader. They should have helped Gideon just becuase he needed help and it was the right thing to do. I must be careful not to let natural fears prevent me from recognizing God's presence in other people and therefore miss being part of God's victory, I may have to face the consequences of failing to join forces with those God has chosen to do His work. God will prevail with or without me but I want to be quick to join others who are engaged in God's work with my time, money, talents and prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Of course, these leaders were acting (or not acting) out of fear. I think they also were perhaps more than a little arrogant in their refusal, with an attitude of, "Why should WE help the likes of YOU?" This is something we should never be guilty of...we are to help our fellow man. "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,' but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" James 2:15-16 In seeking revenge, Gideon may have been acting as an agent of the Lord. We are not told whether this is the case or not. However, when Jesus came, he fulfilled and clarified the Word, teaching us not to seek revenge for ourselves. "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." Matt. 7:1-2 and "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." Matt. 5:44-45 Lord, help me not have a vengeful heart. Help me to show Your love to all. Let me be a light of Your love and set aside my pettiness to serve You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photobug Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Gidden punished these people because they refused to help his men. also the people lacked dedication to god. jesus said if you love me feed my sheep. i some times wonder if the church isnt fallen short of that today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Maher Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? They were fearful. What would happen if Gideon's army was overcome by the Midianite remenant? The Midianite army would take revenge on them. Why does Gideon punish these cities later? Because Gideon was fighting a common foe, he had the right to expect support and encouragement from his countrymen. When they refused to be supportive, they deserved it. What is their sin? They broke a covenant with their own people and, most importantly, they did not trust God. Is Gideon just? I believe he was just. Gideon had been appointed by God to be the deliverer and judge of Israel, he carried out the punishment that was deserved and just. Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? Yes. I know I have to fight this each day. When I look at what God wants compared to what the world says is good. I believe we can, if we are not careful, allow the world to be so important that we do not proclaim our faith as boldly as we should for fear that we may be considered wierd or crazy. We can allow the world to take the power away from our faith. Are we really doing the Lord's work? What is our ministry? Are we tithing? What are we doing each day to help further the kingdom of God? I used to think that going to church and being a good person was what it meant to be a christian. Now I know that there is a lot more to it . . . we are warriors for the Lord and we need to agressively look for ways to further the Lord's kingdom. Whenever we hold back, for whatever reason, we are guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Succoth and Peniel are freightened and choose not to help (bad choice). Their punished for not helping their brothers who were in need. Their sin is thinking of themselves before others, then Gideon would of been just. Now though it is different. Today, christians can be just as guilty by turning their other cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Williams Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 The cities of Succoth and Peniel refused to aid Gideon because they wanted to make sure that the Midianites were thoroughly trouned. They were taking no chances. Gideon would punish them later due to their lack of support in not giving food. Their sin is against the God of the covenant and a terrible breach of hospitality. Gideon is just in his action because at the time the punishment was well deserved. When we refuse to help our fellowman especially those of the faith, we can be guilty of not showing hospitality. I feel we should treat others as we wish to be treated as long as it does not violate the word of God. When we do it to the least of them we are also doing it to the Father. Just because we are refuse by others, we shouldn't take matters into our hand this belong to the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Huang Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 The cities of Succoth and Peniel refused to help Gideon because they were afraid of the repercussioins if Gideon did not succeed in conquering the Midianites. By not giving food to Gideon's men they were guilty of a terrible breach of hospitality. Furthermore they were also guilty of a breach of their covenant with God. Gideon was rightly angry with them but his punishment for their sins was too harsh by modern standards although it may be legitimate by the standards of their culture at the time. We christians can be guilty of the sins of Succoth and Peniel by not meeting our obligations to our fellow christians in our lives e.g. by not responding when there is a call to donate to some cause sponsored by our church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindy Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Sadly enough, churches today are often guilty of the sins of Succoth and Peniel. We are afraid of new people, folks who are different from us, kids with orange hair and rings in their belly buttons, folks who don't know how to dress for or behave in church. And when we become afraid we do exactly as these cities did, we become inhospitable, unloving and unfriendly. I pray that God will remind us that He is greater than any enemy we fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Stanley Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 The officals refused to aid Gideon's Army,in question to him"Do you not already have the hands of Zebah and Zalmunna in your possession??Refuseing to feed his army!The same happened at Peniel.Gideon told them he would tear their flesh with desert thorns and briers when the Lord gives him Zeba and Zalmunna!.Later he punished them as their great sin was committing a terrible breach of hospilality of their own kinsmen and a grave sin against the God of the Covenant.Gideon got very angry with them because they made that decision not to give his army any food.Gideon was justified to punish them;they deserved punishment,but I believe Gideon spoke out how he was going to punished them out of anger. I am sure there are times a christian will neglect the needs of others.Some asking for help or advice.Maybe one person may need help more than others and you think"How many times should I help that person.?We should show hospilality to our brothers and sisters who need us.Some families end up never speaking to each other,because one is poor and the other is rich.One has bread and the other has none.Blessings Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Gilbert Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 When Succoth and Peniel refuse to aid Gideon and his men they are probably motivated by fear of the Midianites, but maybe also by a lack of charity, or an arrogance or simply because they don't want to be bothered. My understanding is that in the ancient world hospitality was highly regarded, so for them to not help was a very large insult. This is amplified by them also being part of a covenant of Israelites. Gideon's response is harsh by Christian standards, as Jesus teaches us to love, even our enemies and to not seek veangance. In Gideon's time it was more of an "eye for an eye", but his retribution is still troubling, a "dark side" as the study's exposition tells us. As Christians we must "fear not!"--not be afraid of helping others regardless of how it affects our comfort zone or image. We have a covenant, a new one, handed down by our Lord. It's been stated by others in the forum the importance of "feeding the sheep". I've been guilty of this sin. I'm trusting that this Bible study will help me to grow in faith and love and to not sin this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fina Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? Succoth and Peniel want to be sure that Medianites are totally defeated before he extend his help to Gideon's army. It's like. "give me your payment first, before I give my goods." What is their sin? They are committing a terrible breach of hospitality to their own kinsmen and a grave sin against the God of the Covenant. Why does Gideon punish these cities later? Because they denies his army of food. Is Gideon just? I think Succoth and Peniel should be grateful enough that Gideon did not urge them to help in fighting their common enemy - they don't have to toil and sweat for defeating Medianites which is also a threat to them. Gideon is asking for his army's food only to sustain their energy and yet they denied it - i could not blame Gideon's actions. Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) I think that when we as Christians pray to God and lift up our concern for the homeless, for those who have no food on their table, for those who are sick and others who are in dire need but without actions, we are like Succoth and Peniel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBORAH Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 Q4. THEY FELT A DOUBT OF GIDEON'S STRENGTH AND PURSUIT TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE HAD SET OUT TO DO, AND FELT THEY WOULD NOT BE SPARED IF THEY NOURISHED GIDEON AND HIS WARRIORS, AN THEIR WAS NO DEFEAT. THEY DID NOT SUPPORT HIS WORD AND THE WORD OF GOD. THEY BROKE A COVENANT WITH GOD AND DISOBEYED, AND THAT RESULTED IN THE DEATH OF BROTHERS OF GIDEON AND A NEXT GENERATION OF MONARCHY. WE SHOULD NOT FEAR THE GIFT OF SHARING. THE LORD WILL GIVE US MORE THEN WE EVER THINK POSSIBLE WHEN WE OFFER, IN TRUE FAITH AND LOVE, AND IN FELLOWSHIP AS HE PROCLAIMED. PSALM 83:9-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Reid Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 Q4. Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) They were scared that he would not kill Midianite kings, and that they would return to punish Succth and Peniel Becase they has committed a terrible breach of hospitality to their kinsmen, and a grave sin against the God of Covenant. I do not think he acted justly. He acted out of anger and showed no mercy. He was very cruel in the punishment. When we turn our backs on the Lord when we know that we should stand firm, but we don't. We give in to our fear instead of trusting in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebChats Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 Because they are afraid of the Midianites. They see how small Gideon's army is and I am sure they are aware of how large the clan of Midianites are. Their sin is not trusting God but believing in their fears instead. I do not see Gideon as justified by punishing them. Someone said it is a time for "an eye for an eye". I do not even see this punishment as an eye for an eye. Gideon did not let them be starved, he beat them to a bloody pulp. "Vengeance is mine" saith the Lord. These Israelites were not out hunting Gideon's army and causing starvation upon them. Gideon came to them and they were afraid. God should handle the punishment. When others are afraid for their lives and do not have trust or faith in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminosa Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 The cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse to aid Gideon's army because they want to have physical confirmation that Gideon indeed has wiped out the Midianites. They ask for the hands of the Midianite leaders, Zebah and Zalmunna. They show a lack of support and faith in God's plan. Gideon punishes Succoth and Peniel because they refused to help his men. It reminds me of "an eye for an eye"; when someone transgresses against you, you have a right to punish them and avenge the wrong doing. Succoth and Peniel's sin is in foolishly treating their own convenant brothers uncharitably. By doing so, they are disrespecting God's servants and God Himself. Succoth and Peniel show a lack of faith and obedience. Christians can be guilty of the same sin of Succoth and Peniel when we refuse to aid our fellow Christians. We sometimes don't want to be put out or inconvenienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelda huffman Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 They were fearful , they thought the Miniate armies would take revenge on them. Because they showed they had no trust in God,s plan, God would punish them in his own time and his own way. Yes we can be guilty of sin in the same way as not to help our fellow man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Hill Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 4. The cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army becauses they are Israelite cities. Rather than helping their brother fight the common enemy as is their covenant responsibility as fellow Israelites, they are with holding aid until they make sure the Midianites are thoroughly defeated. They don't want to take any chances. They are committing a terrible breach of hospitality to their own kinsmen and a grave sin against the God of the Covenant. Gideon promises to punish them because they would not give Gideon's troops some bread. Their sin was a breach of hospitality to their own kinsmen and a sin against the God of the covenant. I think Gideon is too harsh. He took the elders of the town and taught the men of Succoth a lesson by punishing them with desert thorns and briers. He also pulled down the tower of Peniel and killed the men of the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marjorie Knight Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 I feel that Penial and Succoth were afraid that the Midianites were not completely destroyed and would come back and kill them at a later date. It is like us not fully trusting God. They owed allegiance to God and also to Israel. It is like us only doing part of what God asks us to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Phelps Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 They refused to help until they were certain that the Midianites were completely defeated by Gideon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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