Donald Henhawke Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I believe these two cities didnt help out because of fear of reprisal of the hands of the Midianites! Put your self in their postition, you help out to find your not on the winning side, what then ,Ooops you just signed your fate and the fate of your family and friends. It was Gideons dicision to punish the officials, not Gods, i wondered why Gideon didnt ask for a sign of wet blankets when he took that decision! Gideon assumed they were on the same spiritual plan with God as he was . Did he lack foresight and temperance? Me thinks so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanne M. Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 they refused to help out of fear of the enemy, aren't we sometimess just like this we are afraid to get involved to help someone even when we know they are right. But Gideon said he would return to punish them, I want to say hurray for him because he finally found a backbone, but it is not our place to punish anyone or to judge whethr they are right or wrong. This is the job of the Great Judge Christ himself. A lot of people are quick to judge another and two wrongs certainly don't make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dickinson Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 #4 Q4. Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) As with the ways of the world they weren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda biloni Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 They refuse to help Gideon because they fear the Midianites more than they fear Gideon who was being led by God, They showed a great lack of faith. Gideon punishes them because they didn't come to the aid of their brethren. Whether Gideon was just or not, I couldn't say..I know it was a shameful way for God's people to behave towards their brothers, and I'm not too sure that Gideons's vengence wasn't shameful also. If I missed something here, someone please enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 The people of Succoth and Peniel refused to help because of the fear. The seemingly vast number of their enemy created fear in them. I think they thought of Gideon's success as just a stroke of luck. Gideon just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Their refusal to help their brethren and their allies at their time of need convinced Gideon to punish them. Gidoen punished them not just for turning their backs to Gideon but also for turning their backs on their brethren, their friends, their allies, and the Lord. I'm positively sure that the Lord gave Gideon the green light later to punish them for what they did. We too as Christians can be guilty of the same sin by becoming "fair weather friends" to people. When we offer our presence, friendship and assistance to people only at times when we know that they are not going through a great deal of trials and suffering and yet turn our backs on them when we know that they do, we are committing the same sin that the people of Succoth and Peniel committed. And we should beware because we might just be punished by the Lord in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debs4jc Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) The leaders of those cities decided that they would rather forgo giving hospitality to a brother than possible incur the wrath of the Midianites. They were afraid of Midianite reprisal and just plain unwilling to side with Gideon. By their choice they sided with Midian. Perhaps their position on the border had left them open to enemy influences. Gideon punishes them for refusing to aid in God's work of overthrowing the Midianites. They had chosen to play it safe instead of showing allegiance to God. Gideon is just in that they did deserve punishment and the standards of that time were harsh. They had broken the first commandment "Thou Shalt Have No Other God's before Me". Today we don't face the harsh punishments of the OT law. Refusing to join in what someone else is doing, when what they are doing is clearly God's work, would be to follow in the footsteps of the men of Succoth and Peniel. Unfortunately, pride and grudges can all to often lead to this happening in our own churches. Also, when someone becomes excited over what God has told him or her to do we must not err on the side of being too critical. Of course it takes discernment to see when something is of God but when it is it deserves our support, not our criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Smith Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Q4. Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) The cities of Succoth and Peniel refused to aid Gideon's army because they didn't see results. They wanted to see the Midianites vanquished before they were willing to feed Gideon's army. In this, they violated serious rules of their culture. The Pentateuch is full of stories involving hospitality of a far more serious kind than practiced today. A traveller was preferred over one's own children, for example. Unfortunately, Gideon cannot be called "just" in this situation. He is avenging offenses against him and his troops, not against God. God rejoiced when the Israelites defended God's honor, but defense of their own honor appears petty and childish in the light of the written Word. (Lu 12.11-12 It is God's job to defend us.) There are many, unfortunately, in the Body of Christ who fail to support the frontline troops. There are two examples: When a missionary is on the field, many do not want to devote a portion of their earnings to help him perform the task God has given him. When he returns from the field, they are happy to rejoice with him over the growth in the Kingdom where the missionary works. When a pastor is struggling, many will turn their backs on him and will even be quick to join those who criticize. When a pastor is doing well, his supporters will be numerous. The latter example can be found in many forms, and I/we must carefully assess our words and our support for our brothers and sisters in Christ. It's so easy to slip into a critical attitude. We must constantly remind ourselves to be supportive and edifying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanie Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Gideon Lesson 4 Question 4 Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (Judges 8:4-9) Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (Judges 8:13-17) Rather than helping their brothers fight the common enemy as is their covenant responsibility as fellow Israelites, the cities of Succoth and Peniel are withholding aid until they make sure that the Midianites are thoroughly beaten. They even seem to ridicule Gideon's request for bread to give to his exhausted people. In refusing to help their fellow men fight the common enemy, Succoth and Peniel are both committing a terrible breach of hospitality to their own kinsmen and a grave sin against the God of the Covenant. We need to remember, in the light of Jesus' teaching our common enemy is in the spiritual realm. Ephesians 6:12 'For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.' However, Gideon feels terrible anger and after his amazing victory given him by The Lord, returns to punish the cities of Succoth and Peniel. Gideons' terrible anger may have exceeded the provocation. But we must judge Gideon by his own light and cultural standards. And not by the light of Jesus' teaching which comes twelve hundred years later. This precious Word shines even more brightly for me upon the incredible Sacrifice God gave In Himself In Jesus. He hates sin far far more than Gideon and we have all sinned and death is what we all deserve. And yet, while we were sinners He came and gave His Life. He became our sin. He took upon Himself our sin so we could receive forgiveness and LIVE. Precious Blessed Easter Word. When I first began this Gideon Bible Study I learnt there was a Lenten Series 'Behold, The Lamb of God.' But the advice given was not to try and do two studies at the same time so I was a little disappointed because Easter is upon us and as I had already begun Gideon, I wanted to concentrate on the task at hand. Praise God. The Easter message is here also! A circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel could be while our fellow Christians are reaping great victories while we seemingly are not and they ask us to help them in some small and perhaps insignificant way and we find some excuse to refuse. We are The Body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12 One may be as a foot. One may be as a hand. One may be as the ear. One may be as an eye. But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. The eye can never say to the hand, 'I do not need you.' The head cannot say to the feet, 'I do not need you.' God has put the body together in such a way that extra honor and care are given to those members that might otherwise seem less important. This makes for happiness among the members, so that the members have the same care for each other that they do for themselves. If one member suffers, all the members suffer with it, and if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luray mcclung Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 The cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse to feed Gideon's men perhaps because they may fear retaliation from the Midianites. Their citizens' perception is that Gideon has already captured the kings and maybe they figure Gideon's men should enjoy the spoils of the conquered. Because of their refusal to provide bread and feed the troops, Gideon later severely punishes these cities. Their sin is their neglect of their covenant responsibility to help other Israelites. Yes, Gideon is just in his action. Today, there are circumstances when we, too, neglect to help others in time of their trial and tribulation on the battlefield of life. How frequently do we visit widows, take care of orphans and volunteer in the prisons and nursing homes? We have situations that need our attention in the USA, let alone third world nations. lmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liza Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 These cities said Gideon had to capture Zebah and Zalmunna before they could get any aid. This was really mean of them because, forget even kinsmanship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Woodbridge Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? They are afraid of reprisal from the Miidianites, if they are no completely destroyed. They are fellow Israelites and are shirking their responsibility to support the efforts of Gideon and his men to destroy the common enemy. Their sin would be the sin of omission, or failure to carry out their responsibilities as brothers in the time of crisis. Vindictive response is not the right spirit. "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." Christians are also guilty of the sin when they allow prejudice to keep them from responding to the needs of fellow Christians that are of a different race or religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjcollin Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Q4. Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) See exposition The cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse to aid Gideon's army because they know that he had already defeated the 120,000 army which were the hands of Zebah and Zalmunna the Midianite leaders. What more could Midian possibly do now? Why not let the two kings Zebah and Zalmunna and their measly remant 15,000 army live? Because Gideon had been given all of them. Succoth and Peniel were in essence protecting the enemy Midianite kings by refusing to render aid to their own brothers. The sin of Succoth and Peniel is refusal to give aid to their own brethern and refusal to assist in removing evil. I don't see the fear factor here in Succoth and Peniel as was presented in the exposition and in other posts here. I think the motivation is more of a "we don't want to get involved" active omission attitude and also an attitude of "haven't they had enough?" so we are going to punish you and control you by not rendering aid. Gideon is just under the Law to punish these cities. We as Christians are guilty of this sin every time we refuse to render needed aid to other Christians in need just because we don't agree with what they are doing or how they are doing it. I can also think of a few countries in this last Gulf War which carried these same attitudes, but I won't get into that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 Q4. Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) See exposition Succoth and Peniel had seen an enormous army pursued by a tiny group. They saw without faith and therefore could only try to stay on the fence until certainty. Gideon punished them for their treachery. They were failing their brethren and walking in the ways of the world. Christians and churches today often choose to go the world's way rather than the way of Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitty Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 The allies of Gideon refuse because they don't think that Gideon will be able to get the other Midian leaders. They might think that because Gideon asked for help that He might not be able to finish the battle. Gideon punishes the cities later because they cities were suppose to help their brother when the need was needed. The sin was they disobeyed the law of the covenant. This was a covenant between God and the Israelise. Gideon was just when he punished the cities. When christians refuse to help other christians in need. Whether on the mission field, in the inner city, or in the suburbs. We need to help others. For we may be entertaining angels and not even know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatherdills Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 The cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army because they are afraid Gideon would fail and wanted to remain in good standing with the Midianites. Gideon punishes these cities later because they had broken their covenant with other Israelites. Thier sin is disobeying God's will. Gideon is just. A circumstance of when a Christian might be quilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel is when they pass on an opportunity to help someone in need because they don't want to be bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOnLine Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Q4. Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? (8:4-9) They want to make sure the Midianites were defeated before they offered any assistance to Gideon because they were afraid of the Midianites. Why does Gideon punish these cities later? Because they failed to provide nourishment to his troops. What is their sin? They broke a covenant with their own people and with God. Is Gideon just? I think he was just. He was asking for some food for his troops and it was refused. Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) When we see others in need and we look the other way, we are just as guilty as they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairead Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 The cities refuse him aid because they were afraid of the revenge that the Midianites would put on them when Gideon failed. Gideon punishes them later because he needs to concentrate on the problem in hand and kill all the Midianites first. Their sin is to commit a terrible breach of hospitality to their own kinsman and a grave sin against god of the covenant. They showed no faith or respect for God or the man that god had chosen to save them. We need to brave and help others because it is right not because it will benefit us personally. How many times do we walk away and say its up to other people to help. We can do something very powerful we can pray for the situation even if we cannot help financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 It is not enough to join in the victory celebrations. We have to join in the fight to be part of the victory. Succoth and Peniel were not willing to help their exhausted brother Israelites win the battle (the request was simple enough, feed the soldiers!). Therefore they were counted outside the victory and as if they assisted the enemy! By acting as traitors, they condemned themselves to the consequence - deserved punishment. Their sin was to desert the Israeli army when food was needed - to separate themselves from Israel and therefore to help the enemy (He who is not for Me is against Me). Gideon is just. He is fighting for all Israel, not excluding Peniel and Succoth, and needed the support of all Israel. A nation divided against itself cannot stand. Christians can easily fall into the sin of Succoth and Peniel. If they arenot right in the thick of the battle against satan, then they are supporting him, not Jesus. Divisiveness in the church, through gossip, criticism (especially of the annointing or calling of pastors) compares clearly with that sin. Jesus prayed His most important prayer for us all about unity, and each man (woman) must pass the unity test! Constantly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maria gonzalez Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 The soldiers were not helped or fed because the Israelites living in these cities were not sure that God would deliver them from the Midianites through these soldiers and Gideon. These cities, Succoth and Peniel were afraid of what the Midianites would do to them if they learned that they had helped Gideon and his soldiers to fight against them. They doubted God's power. As Christians today we can compare ourselves to these cities when we doubt the purpose of God in someone's life. People who have a definite purpose in God request our help: offering, help, etc..., sometimes we do not listen to them, usually because we doubt what God could do through them. I do not think it was necessary for Gideon to punish the people who did not help the army. I think he needed to help them understand God's main purpose was for the Israelites to renew their faith in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randi Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 The two cities let fear win out over compassion for their brothers. They were afraid of the Midianites, instead of trusting God and helping His people. Gideon finished his task with the Midianites first because that was his assignment from God and also to protect his people from future trouble with the Midianites. The cities commited two sins, first to God because they didn't keep their covenant responsibility and they sinned against their brothers in not meeting their needs. Punishment yes, if led by God but Gideon did it with avengence. Gideon used no restraint and mercy in the face of his own anger. When we as Christians don't help others because of fear of something or someone we are following the same kind of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandieh Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Succooth, and Peneil, were not so sure Gideon was going to be able to finish what he had started. they lacked his faith. Their sin was in not coming to the aid of their brethen, as they should have. Was their punishment just? I think it seemed over harsh, atleast at Peneil. But by this time Gideon was angry and tired and might not have been thinking as clearly as he was with Ephairm. I have been dealing with a struggle much like this myself in recent days, needing the aid of certain fellow christians, that isn't there. But bless God He always sends someone else to make up where others fall short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyfields Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 both the people of Succoth and Peniel refused to give food to Gideon's troops for fear that the Midianites will retaliate for giving aide. Gideon's reason for punishing these people was because they did not render aide. The people of Succoth & Peniel committed sin not because of gideon but they broke the covenant with God and the people. In that time i feel he was just because by them refusing aide thinking they were harming Gideon & his troops God allowed such punishment to take place because of their violation of his covenant.(God can get you far better than we can!smile) A situation that may apply to us today may be passing by needy person or turning people away when asking for aide(money transportaion shelter etc.)We are similar to the people of Succoth & Peniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Q4. (Judges 8:4-17) Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army? They refused to give any aid to Gideon because they also feared the Midianite winning the battle and returning to destroy anyone who had assisted Gideon. Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Gideon punished these cities because the refused to give aid to him and his men when they were in need. They had broken their covenant responsibility to help their fellow Israelite. Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? (8:13-17) Yes, I can think of circumstances today when Christians might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel. There are times when ministries make appeal to the larger Body of Christ to assist them in a venture and the appeal seem to fall on deaf ears. We are guilty as the people of Succoth and Peniel when we have it within our powere to help and do not lend a hand when asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Q4. (Judges 8:4-17) Why do the cities of Succoth and Peniel refuse aid to Gideon's army?Why does Gideon punish these cities later? What is their sin? Is Gideon just? Can you think of a circumstance when a Christian might be guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel? They refuse to help Gideon because they are uncertain as to whether or not Gideon had defeated the Midianites. They were concerned with the possibility of any negative fall-out if Gideon had not defeated the remaining Midianites. So, help would be conditional. Because Gideon did not have the remaining Midianites under control, they refused help. He punishes these two cities because they refused to help their fellow Israelites in time of need. They betrayed their fellow Israelites, so Gideon punished them. Gideon is just according convenant laws, but a little lacking in mercy. Christians are guilty of the sin of Succoth and Peniel all of the time. Any time we fail to provide a brother or sister in need and we have the ability to take care of that need, we sin. There are no loop-holes in providing help and aid, especially to the brethren. James wrote that to know to do good and fail to do it is sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Succoth and Peniel did not want to get involved. The Midianites hadn't been totally wiped out and Succoth and Peniel feared them so they did not help Gideon and his army. Gideon's punishment was partly out of anger and partly due to the fact they broke their covenant with God and their Israelite brothers. Their sin was letting fear overcome and not helping Gideon and his army. Gideon was leading under God's direction. Not helping Gideon was not helping God. It seems in the Old Testament several of God's chosen leaders used severe punishmen in similar circumstances. I don't fully agree or understand but it seems to be with God's agreement that severe punishment was given due to sin. Possibly God directed Gideon in this punishment. I believe Christians today commit similar sins. They may be called sins of unconcern, not wanting to be involved, or sins of omission. We are directed to love our brothers and to minister to them as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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