Q3. Prayer and Determinism

[Lorraine Wright]

Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and

predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses

prayed?

I believe that God ilikes it when we are "gutsy"in our prayerl It glorifies Him when we step out in faith.

What do you call a belief that our prayers make no

difference to God's response?

Stupid

[The Real Truth]

How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed?

Basically, we won't pray at all. We would think, "Pray? What's the point? God has already predestined whatever it is to come to pass.

What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response?

No-faith-based belief.

[Alicea]

How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response?

If we don't believe that anything we pray is going to make a difference then we won't bother to pray.

Predestination.

[Jen]

How can a wrong understanding of predestination and determinism keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed?

The wrong understanding would keep us from praying the right things in the right way because we would feel it wouldn't change the outcome. But all through the Bible we find that God graciously condescends to those who are humble and ask for mercy.

What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response?

Ignorance of God's Word and His character

God Bless!

Jen

Numbers 6:24-26

[Gwen Bryant]

A. If it has already been determined by God what will happen, why would I feel led to pray for any outcome other than the one He has planned; if the definition of predestination is true then I should pray to know God's predestined plan so that when I pray, "Thou will be done," I would be praying in obedience. Two biblical accounts come to mind when I reflect on this lesson:

The first is found in 2 Sam. 11-12; I believe that God's mind was made up regarding David's consequence for his actions, but I don't believe that God predestined the actions (adultery and murder). He allowed them, but predestined them?

The second is the account in Luke 18:1-5; Why is Jesus teaching us to always pray to God in this manner (continually), and is giving an illustration of a judge changing his mind, pe se, if our continued praying/asking has no effect on what God will do, because it's already predestined.

B. I call that belief a false belief

[LisaZ]

Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and

predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses

prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no

difference to God's response?

If people believe that events are already set and unchangeable then what is the point of prayer? I think there is a big difference between God already knowing what will happen throughout history and the idea that everything is predetermined according to a set outcome. We are commanded many times in the Bible to pray and I don't believe God would have us do a pointless exercise that makes no difference. Scripture tells us that our prayers do in fact have a great impact.

[Mary Beth Whittam]

God is control of all things. We have to have faith that God know what is best for us in our lives. If our prayer is selfish or what God know isn't best for us He will not give it to us. I don't know what my future is and after these last two years (that I been through) I trust God to do His best. I might not like how He answers my prayer but He know my future and what is best for me.

[Bob Jones]

Question No. 3

I have been in meetings when someone prophesied over an individual that something was going to happen if this individual didn't change the motivation of his heart. I saw this individual go before the Lord and pound on heavens door until God's mind was change, and the situation that could have been disastrous was change in a very positive and God centered way.

We can get caught up in predestination, or that God had preordained a situation to happen. However from my perspective faith is the cornerstone of prayer. Scripture states that the prayer of a righteous man avails much. When I look at the word avail, I see the following "to be of force, to be effective, capable of producing results and the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

Either we believe by faith that our prayer will touch the heart of God or our prayers have no effect at all. We cannot be double minded. We must have that childlike faith.

[Sonshine777]

If I dont believe that my prayers will be heard and that God will act to answer them then I wont pray until I have a crisis that only God alone could help me with! And even then, I'd be counting on the idea of only a slight chance that He might just consider my plight. This approach is so limiting and truly robs us of the joy of getting to know and recognize Him in our daily lives.

Is it not true that God wants us to test His faithfulness? What better way to do this than to pray some gutsy prayers!!!

The way that the Lord has been handling my affairs since I asked Him to take over my life is proof enough for me that, even tho He knows my heart and the outcome of my life, that He enjoys hearing my prayers and that He is present with me whereever I am at in life. I dont know what to call a belief that prayers make no difference to God's response outside of predestination and determinism, except to point out that there would be no need for us to have a relationship with Him.

[Linda Stanley]

"ASK NOT,AND RECEIVE NOT"!! RIGHT?~~I BELIEVE WE SHOULD GO BEFORE GOD IN PRAYER WITH HUMBLENESS,BUT YET BOLDNESS.WE MUST NOT JUST SIT BACK AND LET THINGS HAPPEN THAT IS BEYOND OUR CONTROL.INTERCEDE,PRAY FOR GOD TO STEP IN AND MAKE A CHANGE FOR THE GOOD.EVEN IF IT DOES NOT TURN OUT LIKE WE WANT IT TO,IT WILL BE GODS WILL AND DESIRE TO TURN A BAD SITUATION INTO SOMETHING GOOD OR WORTHWHILE.GOD CAN MAKE A DIFFRENCE IF WE ONLY ASK.OUR PRAYERS DO MAKE A DIFFRENCE,AND WE MUST BELIEVE IN THAT.OUR PRAYERS SHOULD BE SHORT AND RIGHT ON TARGET,DON'T BEAT AROUND THE BUSH,AND MUMBLE.BELIEVE IN CHANGE TO WHAT YOU ASK GOD FOR,KNOWING GOD WILL MAKE A DIFFRENCE,AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT..DONT JUST PRAY IT AND FORGET IT,FOLLOW UP ON YOUR PRAYERS.CHECK ON WHOMEVER YOU PRAYED FOR.SEE HOW THEY ARE DOING.EVEN NATURAL DISASTERS CAN BE PRAYED FOR.GOD IS ALMIGHTY AND ABOVE EVERYTHING,AND IN CONTROL OF EVERTHING.I GIVE GOD ALL THE GLORY FOR WHAT HE DOES FOR ME.GIVE GOD ALL THE GLORY WHEN PRAYERS ARE ANSWERED.AMEN

[Helen Williams]

This type of understanding will make us think that prayer really does not change anything and that it is a waste of time and energy. Our prayer life will be casual and passive. There is lack of faith and trust on God, being the God He is. God is a rewarder of those that deligient seek him. We can become unbeliever in our prayers if we are not careful. Let us remember that prayer is our way of communicating with oour Father in heaven. This helps build that personal relatiomship that we have with Him.

[s8nfighter]

God says that He is the potter and we are but the clay, and the potter has the choice to make out of the clay peices for noble and peices for ignoble use. Predestination? Maybe.

We all are destined to meet God twice in our lives; the first at birth, when He put the breath of life in us and again at death when we are judged. These two are predestined but the third is a choice, that is when we decide to follow Jesus and He places the Holy Spirit within us. That is prayer answered.

Contemplate Job for a bit. The people around him accused him of sin and of seperation from God, his wife even said, "Curse God and die." Job may have went about it wrong but he knew that there was nothing that could seperate him from God.

A few years ago my pastor shared this testimony with me. She was counseling a family whose 8 yr. old son was about to have another surgery. The child had cancer and had several surgerys prior to this one. As the nurses were preparing him for surgery he noticed the fear in his mother's eyes. He reached up and took his mom's hand and told her, 'It is o.k. mom. The doctors will either make me well and I will come home to you or they won't and I will go home with Jesus." He passed away a few days later.

After a difficult life of 8 years this child knew something that most of us will never figure out even if we live to be 80. There is a differance between knowing of God and knowing God. This child knew God and knew, like Job, there was nothing that could seperate him from God. This is DETERMINATION at its best and CLAY OF NOBLE USE.

Darrell

[winevine03]

If we choose to think that our prayers don't really count, because God has already wrapped everything up since before the world was made, then we also think our prayers are futile, senseless.

I call it unbelief! I call it apathy. I call it un-biblical. The bible calls us to pray without ceasing. Jesus tells us to pray, why would he do this if our prayers are not heard? Jesus tells us our Father in Heaven hears our prayers, and will answer.

I think in some cases there may be a level of misunderstanding of God and His Word, perhaps conveniently to avoid the reality of God's command for us to pray for other's.

I know I have many reasons for not praying, for believing my prayers won't be heard. And that is that I buy into the deception that I am unworthy, that God would not listen to my prayers because I am not a righteous man. I am easily condemned by my sin, and shortcomings, and have no confidence in my prayers to God. Even though I have had many answered prayers.

[lee trainor]

If we have a "wrong" understanding of predestination, then we will have the attitude that "it doesn't matter what I pray, because God has already planned what is going happen anyway!!. We would have no reason to pray the way that Moses did, because it would all seem like a waste of time. In response to question # 2, I do not in any way believe that our prayers make no difference to God's response!!. God wants us to "come to the throne boldly", just the way Jesus and Moses did!.

[June]

If we believe that we can not change anything with prayer then why pray!Be determined to pray to make a difference. Call down Heaven to Earth and God will change what could be a disasterous situation.If you believe that prayer won't change anything then you probably won't pray.

Predestined to happen and praying won't change God is an unbelief in prayer. Prayer brings action.

It is unbelief to think that prayer makes no difference to God's response. It is a faithless spirit that does not believe in prayer changing things, even the mind of God...

[Candygoo58]

Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and

predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses

prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no

difference to God's response?

How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed?

If everything is already predestioned, why pray at all? Fact is only God sees the big picture and he wants us to pray with boldness, asking him what we should do next.

What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response?

If we think God is going to do what he has set out to do whether we pray or not. Then why pray at all.

[MannyVelarde]

Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response?

We would be very presumptuos to think that we pray just to get response. We pray because God instructed us to pray. Many people believing in predest. think they don't have to do anything because the outcome will be what God wills.

Prayers make a difference to us because they give us communication to God, we are spending time with Him, learning His will better and learning how to respond on this earth in His direction.

[Sonya A Miller]

Q3. How can a wrong understanding oif determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed?

Isn't determinism predestination? If we don't believe that prayer can change God's mind, then why bother praying? We'd pray wimpy prayers, and just say, "God's will be done."

What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response?

Fatalism: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them; a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine.

[grace]

How can a wrong understanding of determination and predestination prevent us from praying the gutsy prayer that Moses prayed?

What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response?

1. A wrong understanding of Determination and predestination can prevent

us from praying as Moses did, in that, we will not take prayer seriously, and

therefore , we will not exercise our faith to believe that "whatsoever we ask

we will receive".

2. To suggest that our prayer makes no difference to God, is to deny scripture which PLEADS with us to go into our prayer closet , and call upon the Father with the expectation that God will do and show us great and mighty things which we know not. Jesus sweat great drops of blood in prayer. James says our prayers are effectual. The bible says that -"Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God".Acts 10:4.

And Revelation tells us that our prayers are a SWEET INCENSE going up

to the Father.

N.B. How else can we communicate with the Father, if not by prayer??????

[Julie]

1. Well if some Christians believe what will be, will be, Then why Pray

2. false believe

[Theo Kho]

Prayer is an active relationship; where an action and reaction meet - and this is continuous flow. In the Bible; all testimony has been demonstrated by what God say (God's Word) and what the people say. (note: This is can be done only when we have demonstrate/understand/accept that there is relationship between God and us).

This always the case in our day to day life; whether we understand or not in our relationship - keeping the communications open (our prayer) is only way to maintain our relatioship with God. The key here is not how we present ourself with "our wish list/request" and not how God answer to us - but for us demonstrate "boldly" to God that we communicate and having/claim that relationship with HIM. Is the same way to demonstrate that "we have faith in our GOD".

Moses have that relationship, and he claimed "the relationship" with his prayer and request; and God answer Moses because GOD confirmed that relationship.

Our challenge is to have the relationship and claim this engangement. From then on we can pray with submission from our heart and fully aware what our prayer for. God always answer prayer; it may not be right now or in future/other time and it may not be what we ask for. Our faith in the relationship will justify our prayer quality and how we response to God's answer.

[jeffg]

hi

If we have a strong fatalistic veiw of God and his plan for us we could not pray boldly as Moses did, we would merely be able to pray a meek "Thy will be done"

If our prayers make no difference that there would be no reason to pray at all. God is intimately involved in our moment by moment life giving us all that sustains us and the universe.

Jeff

[obnubilate]

Our God is dynamic. That's why He came down to save us. In so, we should respond dynamically in our walk with Him. Put forth our petitions boldly and He will grant them. Gos talked with Moses ONLY face to face, as a friend; at that time. Now with Jesus, He calls ALL of us His friends.

Yet we must realise that He is still the LORD God...remember to approach Him with a clean heart and submissive spirit, lest we die (ref Exodus)

[godsanointed523]

Well what i feel is that with predestiantion people feel that they cannt decide for themselves,when things will come to pass. I feel that determinism is when the brothers and sisters want to go and decide when the Lord is coming etc. Moses knew from God what certain things were going to happen to them. There was the natioon who wanted to do free will and determism instead of thinking that God had predestined them to go 40 years in the wilderness. God bless

[fran]

Isn't that an amazing story of a back and forth exchange between a man and God? Seems to me that it would not be beyond God to know exactly what was to transpire between He and Moses.