Pastor Ralph Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonS Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? No. We must pray with in his will if we want answered paryers. We know his will by knowing God's Word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzen Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 God can change His mind about the outcome of things, because it's conditional to mankind's response or behavior. The answer will still always be within His will. Yes, I think God can answer a prayer that is outside of the scope of His will...He can say "No!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class1fox Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? When we consistenly pray according to the Scriptures, with Faith, Fervency and Fortitude, we can and will change Yahweh's mind. Again it is His indispensable duty to act upon His word. Yahweh promises and warnings are always conditional according to our responses. ....................NO............... Absolutely NOT..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekila Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I cannot seem to grasp what may be outside of his will when everything exists in his plan and will. A prayer will always cause God to taken an action. Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenista Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? God cannot and will not answer a prayer that is not within His will. There are reasons for everything and though we may not know what they are, God knows and we are not to lean upon our own understanding but to trust fully and faithfully in the Lord. God has a purpose and a plan: "the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indded can be" (Romans 8:7). God is the final authority, not human reasoning or planning. God does what he purposfully intends to do - there is never a change to God's purpose or intentions, he lives up to His promises. In I John 5:14 John said, "And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us." It's not when God comes to our will, but when we so pray that we come into conformity to his will. When we pray with a sincere desire in our heart, we can be assured that we will get that which we need, even when we don't know how to ask for it. We will get that which is in accordance with God's will. How do we know this? Because, first of all, the Holy Spirit causes us to pray. In both Romans 8:15 and Galatians 4:6 we are taught that he hath sent forth his spirit into our hearts crying "Abba Father." This is true of every true believer; every child of God. He causes us to pray is the idea, causes us to cry out to God as our Father. And then we note also that the Holy spirit leads us in our prayers. In Romans 3:26 this is verified. But let us first note verse 14 of Romans 8, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Then in verse 26, "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities; for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts, [verse 27] knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Therefore, it is not a change on the part of God when we pray. Rather we pray, and through the aid and help of the Spirit, who makes intercession for the saint, according to the will of God, we become conformed to the will of God. The change is in us, not in the immutable God of heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickledilly Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 God's character, will, and purposes will never change or be altered. Yet there are variances in the means by which He will accomplish them in His creation. Whether or not we step in line with Him makes a difference to Him in how He chooses to deal with us. It's just like salvation. God desires that all would be saved, but that is conditional. He can only save those who come the way He says you must come - in repentance of sin and acceptance of Christ as Savior. The Scriptures are filled with "If...Then" promises. I don't believe the Lord will ever conform His answers to any prayer that is outside of His will. He might say "No"! He may have another answer. Or perhaps the Spirit will set to work to specifically change our desires to align with His and conform our request to His will. But He will not answer in a way that contradicts His immutability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpace Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? As long as we pray something that is his will it won't conflict with his Immutability. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? Well, yes and no. In the OT we are told God answered their request BUT sent leaness to their souls. The no answer comes in if the prayer is against his Word or character. So I guess that would end being a "No", huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helenmm Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 This is not a difficult question. God planned for an interactive relationship with His children because He longs for relationship with us. His values are totally immutable, but He is not unapproachable. The most immutable value of all is love which is an interactive value. Praise His holy and glorious Name! He does hear us and rejoices when we are "talking His language". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunilbernard Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? Effectual , fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much, says James. It means that when we pray with all zeal and fervency, God listens and changes course. As detailed in the study, anything done within the boundaries of the will of God will prevail over his scheduled actions. God does relent, provided it is in His realm of will. Any prayer outside the scope of His will cannot be answered by God. Because God does not alter His characteristics for the sake of man. If we pray with selfish motives or biased opinions, He will not answer them as they fall outside His will. We should know before attempting to pray, whether it stands the scrutiny of God's will. If we are sure we are within the boundary of His will, then we should attempt to pray. Otherwise it is a futile exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Jane Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 No....if God were given to change his mind .for immutable means permanence, doesn't it? .....how would we then have a basis for knowing how to live, how to pray. How could we follow the correct path if the Leader is changing even a little? The rules are "this" way today and "that" way another day. God never changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindaparadise Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? no matter what is to happen GOD already knows the outcome. yet for example if the person is to die it could be in a diffrent way. it could be painless, or quickly, or without having to be humiliated. it will be in a better way the route will be a diffrent route yet the arrival time will not be changed. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? like i said if this person is ment to go to heaven they will. if not they won't. GOD will let you have hope for them though. and when you die all memory of that person no matter who they were to you will be erased from your mind. this way you won't be hurting knowing they didn't make it.so in the end what GOD does is for the person doing the praying not always for who the prayer is for. GOD has it all under control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsandy Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 When God looked at the world in the days of Noah his heart repented at the state of mankind and he was moved to destroy the inhabitants except for Noah and kin. God can change his mind, the how/who he does things can be different yet still remain in his will. If God wills then it will be so . So yes we must pray according to his will.We can also pray that it be his will and appeal to his character and word. Permissible will and express will have different bounderies and love is without boundry. If God answers prayer it will be his will anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Ann Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? God, being without sin, can decide which course of action to take if there is more then one course to choose from but both are within his will. Just as in this passage, If he had destroyed the Isrealites and chose to raise up a Nation through Moses, He would have fulfilled his promise, his will, to Abraham because Moses was a direct decendent. Instead, because Moses interceded, prayed for the Isrealites, God chose to spare them. Looking at this from a modern day, personal, perspective, I had been asking God for years to have my husband, who is a Christian but never really liked attending churches, to chose a church for us to attend together. Our boys and I attend several different churches over the years which I believe was God's will. Not until recently, however, did God have my husband begin attending a church with me that he likes and we have become members of. God could have had us become members a any church at any time. But he chose to wait until we started attending our current church home. God answers all prayers - just not always the way we want. If we are asking for something that is "outside of the scope of his will", God's going to tell us No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Spaulding Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? I like the way Pastor Ralph answered this question--that God can and will change His mind about the way He brings about His desire for His people--not change His ultimate will! As he says, God's will can be brought about by other ways, and if we pray IN ACCORDANCE to His Will, He will hear and honor that trust. God cannot and will not act contrary to His Will! But often He desires us to cooperate with Him in bringing that Will about. Like the trajectory that is set up for getting a space vehicle to it's intended destination is constantly being monitered and adjusted to be sure it hits its target, so God can and does alter His route to reaching His ultimate goal--and that in response to our heartfelt prayers! SO! We can pray, knowing He will hear and answer prayers that are within His character and Will! Praise His name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennLady01 Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Prayer can and does change the way God does things. As long as we pray in accordance to the word the written word he has given to us in the bible he will not go against his own word. He will like with bringing them out of Egypt so many times wanted to destroy them all but because of Moses the intercession of his prayers did let them live. He did not let them enter the promise land but their generations did get to go in. God's will is to give to us the desires of our hearts. Just not the greedy and selfishness that some think of as being a desire. He listens to us and will do what is prayed according to his will in the word. So yes he can change his mind. We may wonder in the wilderness for a while because of disobedience and face some really hard trials but he will bring us through and help us to receive the things we have ask from him. Thank you Father. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? God answers prayers in many ways. Some seem to think the only answer to prayer is yes I the Lord your God will do this for you. That is not true he also says to us wait and pray more it will be in my time that you will receive the answer and then there are times when we pray for something we know is not the will of the Father and yet we think he should change and give us what we ask. He would not be a good Father if he did that so he will not do it. Jesus said he went to sit at the right hand of the Father to make intercession for us and I do believe that is why I am still alive today. God loves me but I have done so pretty dum things in my life that deserve death. Jesus interceded and the Father let me live. I thank him he is kind and love but we must remember he is a God of wrath also. He has opened the ground and swallowed up a lot of people because of sin. He hates sin so we need not ask him to leave it. Think of Abraham and his bleed for Sodom and it was destroyed because of the sin there. Not even 10 good men could be found but he did bring Lot out and his family. We must remember God is God and he will not change his ways but he can be talked to by us through Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilderflower Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? This first question has always puzzled me and I have no answer. I'll be interested to see the opinions of others. As for the second question, my answer is a definite "No." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicea Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? Prayer can change God's mind without changing His will. God's will was to have a people; He would accomplish that if He destroyed Israel and started over again with Moses or if He spared Israel and used them. So God's will and purpose were not changed but the way His will was accomplished was changed. Yes He can answer prayer outside the scope of His will. He says NO. Hi to Lorraine Wright. Looking forward to seeing you soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Ann Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? The Immutablitiy of God is in relation to his character, God's desire and God's purpose. God's character consist of both love and justice. There is a wide birth between these two characters in which God can work. The study of this prayer has given me great hope. Imagine the heart and prayer of one man saved a nation. Makes me want to pray harder for the nation I reside in. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? No, while I believe that God's scope has a wonderfully large view, He and we must stay inside of the view in order to fullfill his will. God Bless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Lesson 2 Q 4 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Prayer can change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God by man's response. A change in man's conduct brings about a change in God's judgment. God's character, holiness, and purpose do not change but as Cole observes, "In the Bible, it is clear that God's promises and warnings are always conditional on man's response." Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? I believe we will learn to pray according to God's will, therefore,we will not be asking God for something that is out of the scope of His will. When we pray like this (according to His will) God is willing to change His actions to respond to our intercessions and petitions but not outside the scope if His will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy777 Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. I plan to live through this hurricane but there are many millions of permutations on how that might happen and if God's plan is for me to go home then I am all for that as well. I am praying selfishly that the storm will pass us by. God's will though is on a level beyond my life or death though he may have plans for me he will be glad to raise up rocks to take my place if I choose to be stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Rivington Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 It is God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Rupert Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? First, since everything is written, then we as humans see it as a change. It could be a test. To see if we are following the will of God and not our own wills. Everything in this existence has been constructed to serve the will of God. So when Moses' appeal to God, I believe it was to show his loyalty to God's will. Not to prove that he could change God's mind. As we experience living, there are circumstances that appear to be bad but with a positive end result. Everything on this earth works in accordance with the will of God. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? God can not even hear prayers that are out of his will. He can not even hear the prayers of the unrighteous. He answers all prayers of a righteous man with a yes or no answer. It might not be the answers we search for but he does answer us. Without even releasing it sometimes our prayers are selfish and are not of his will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggiemuggins Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Q4. Hoe can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? First, let me look up all the large words here. Okay, Got it. I don't believe that anything that God does can conflict with any other part of Him? Who are we to judge what God can or cannot do? My answer: If we reason with God on the strength of His promises, then He can, and will (as we have read) relent (become less severe) in the anger He has displayed. This does not change the fact that He is unchangeable, but continues to show that He does mete out mercy. As He said in Ex. 33:19, "I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." And He chose to have compassion on the Israelites. Can God answer a prayer for something outside the scope of His will? I believe that God, our loving Father, can answer a prayer whether it is "inside" or "outside" the scope of His will. How can we expect to know what the scope of His will is? Let us just read His Word and stop thinking about what humans (theologians) are trying to fathom from it. In the end He will show us all things. For now, Our thoughts are not His thoughts. He is much more advanced in wisdom and knowledge than the best theologians. It is hard enough for a Christian to try to live by His Word without worrying about what some theologian trys to make of that Word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Bryant Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 A. Prayer that request God to alter His plan, but that asking according to His set boundaries---yet asking that He uses a different or less severe consequence, which would be in keeping with His character of mercy. B. No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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