Jen Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the immutability of God. God's character is always the same. He invites us to come to Him with our requests and He answers in a way that is consistent with His character. Can God answer a prayer for something outside the scope of His will? If it's not in the scope of His will the answer is always no. God Bless! Jen Numbers 6: 24-26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandieh Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Okay! I had to really think this one through. I replied to yesterdays question, in the affirmative, that yes prayer could change God's mind. But after more thought I have to retract that answer. The Word of God says:"I am the Lord and I do not change". God is immutable. I assume that word means unchangeable, then His mind can't be changed. He already knows everything. What we will pray for even before we pray and He can cause our prayers to line up with His will, but we won't change His. He is perfect, through and through....His will included. We can not expect Him to answer a prayer outside His will. And besides all that Dr. Ralph, God could not have kept His promise to Abraham, through Moses, because the King was coming from the tribe of Judah, as already stated in Genesis 49:10, and Moses was from the tribe of Levi! I love this Bible Study! You really get to thinking with it!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekila Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 No prayer prayed in Jesus name, comes back void or unanswered. God answers prayers when the time is right. We must pray for his will to done.. In order that we move and acquire in his will we must first seek him in his word in truth and in Spirit. Thank you..Jesus Halleluiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Wright Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? We are not trying to change God's character, desire and purpose, we are just praying for an anternative that is still withing God's will and we can do that by intercessory prayer. No I do not believe you can pray for something outside of God's will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaZ Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? God's character is unchangeable but this does not mean that He can't decide to change His course of action in a particular situation and pour out His mercy instead of His judgment which is deserved. His action will still be in line with His character. I believe God has a perfect will and a permissive will. Sometimes when we persist in asking God for something that is outside His perfect will, He will allow us to have it through His permissive will, even though it may not be the best route for us. I don't believe He will answer a prayer outside of His perfect or permissive wills though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Beth Whittam Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Hebrew 4:16-Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy, and find grace tohelp in time of need. The second part of this question is No because He know what is best for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Jones Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Question No. 4 As long as we are paying God's will for the situation. I believe that the motivation of God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sally_orwig Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? God says what He is going to do. Bargaining with God will not work. Can God answer a prayer for somethign outside of the scope of his will? Sure He can. We must live in Gods timing not our own. It is not about Me, it is about God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder9 Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 I feel very comfortable with God being "Sovereign". Doing what He wants to, how He wants to, Whene He wants to. If God moves me to intercede for others even when it seems as though He's already made up His mind or a course of action its got to be for a reason. We learned earlier in our model for prayer, "in earth as it is in heaven". i take that as a model of what God wants to do in earth. The world has already been condemned to destruction. But yet He sent His Son to seek and save that which was lost, and He loves the world the reason for the Son coming, and He still is god who changes not. It depends on my understanding of "outside" of His will. His will is that none should be lost, and that all come to repentence. So God will answer prayer for mercy, in accordance to His will. His word has gone out of His mouth, "find sinners, save the willing", His will is that His word of mercy finds them and they repent before His word of judgment finds them and condemns. Answer, YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Stanley Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 WELL,WHEN I PRAY I JUST DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT GOD IS GOING TO DO.ALL I CAN DO IS JUST PRAY AND ASK HIM.JUST LIKE MOSES DID. WE COULD ASK GOD COULD HE DO SOMETHING ELSE, SEEK GODS FAVOR.ANYTHING WE PRAY FOR,OR ASK FOR HAS TO BE WITHIN GODS WILL.WHEN WE GET THE ANSWER AND IF IT IS TO HARD FOR US TO WORK WITH ,GO BACK ,PRAY AGAIN,TELL GOD ITS NOT WORKING FOR YOU,YOU NEED MORE HELP,PUT SOMEONE IN YOUR PATHWAY TO HELP YOU.GOD GAVE ARRON TO MOSES,THEY WORKED TOGETHER. IM SURE IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT WE PRAY FOR.SOME PRAYERS ARE BIG AND SOME SMALL,AND THE OUTCOME OF OUR PRAYER IS UP TO GOD,BUT I MUST HAVE FAITH AND TRUST GOD THAT HE WILL WORK IT ALL OUT .FOR SOME REASON I FEEL A BIT UNCOMFORTABLE TRYING TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION. :unsure:I BELIEVE GODS WILL IS ALWAYS BEST FOR US.WHEN WE STEP OUTSIDE OF GODS WILL FOR OUR LIFE,I BELIEVE THE ROAD GETS ROUGH. PRAYING AND ASKING GOD FOR SOMETHING OUT OF HIS WILL,I BELIEVE IS ASKING FOR GOD TO BRING WHATEVER IT IS YOU ARE ASKING INTO HIS WILL. OUR PRAYERS CAN CHANGE GODS MIND,AND GOD WILL CHOOSE TO DO SOMETHING ELSE,BUT IT IS STILL IN HIS WILL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s8nfighter Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Immutable means not capable of or susceptible to change. If God were immutable He would not have regretted making the world and all that live in it. If God were immutable He would not have even noticed Noah and decide to spare life two by two. If God were immutable Jacob would not have struggled with Him and won. (Wouldn't have even been a struggle) There are things that God allows Satan to do (for if you belive God is real you must believe that Satan is real) and the things that Satan does is outside the will of God. Confused yet? I was too but I cheated and read the end of the bible, I do that with worthy books at times. Rev. 21:1 "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone." At this time Satan is cast into the lake of fire, (not to live eternaly but to be destroyed) and there will be no will outside that of God. Can we change the desire of God? Matt. 23 :37"How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me." His desire is and always will be the same. Should we pray for something outside the will of God? Matt. 23:38, "And now look, your house is left to you, empty and desolate. 39 For I tell you this, you will never see me again until you say, 'Bless the one who comes in the name of the Lord!" Darrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winevine03 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 I think His will can be a broader sense than we at first recognize as God's charachter allowing. What I mean is, God is all-encompassing, massive in the most massive definition, nothing is impossible for Him, and He always knows what is best. His views are so much more higher than ours, and so He must have a greater grasp on flexibility, and how something will work for His purposes. We, on the other hand tend to be so cut-and-dry about things, not knowing anything, let alone Everything! I think God is immutable and flexible, and ultimately knows our intentions and wether or not our prayers have validity to His purposes. Like the saying goes, "don't put God in a box"! I think no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 If we are in the center of God's will for our lives, and we are praying accordingly to His will for answered prayer, then we know God will answer our prayers. When Moses interceded for the people, God "changed" in order to act consistently with his mercy. God had often told the people that if they changed their ways he would not condem them. They changed changed and God did as he promised. "Prayer Changes Things" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Truth Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? As long as the prayer doesn't conflict with WHO God is but if it's a decision of God's than maybe we can chage that without conflict. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? No, I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee trainor Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 It all comes down to praying according to his will. Most of the time we don't know what is best for us, we think we do, but that does not always line up with what God wants for us. Do I think he can answer a prayer for something that is outside of his will?, yes, he is willing to change the outcome of a situation if it is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 God doesn't change in character, desire, or purpose but prayer can change His mind. Sometimes He relents to teach us a lesson. If we are in God's will, then anything asked in Jesus' Name, He will consider, though He may change His mind from His original decision. I believe that God could answer outside the scope of His will, though there would be consequences for us. God can do anything because He is God and we are not..... We should always ask according to His perfect will. To let thy will be done here on earth as it is in heaven. Prayer does change things!! So, whatever He chooses is His will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candygoo58 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? I believe God will never change. And his will for us will never change. I believe that whyen we do something wrong. Or we know someone else is doing something wrong. If we pray a prayer of repentance he wil change from doing what we deserve to forgiving us and making our relationship to him right again. Or same with praying for God to change the other persons heart that it will be changed. I think what Giod is doing when he is angered by someone is to wake them up and to gett hem to come back to him. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? No he can't. If its not Gods will we should be glad he tells us now. Cause it would be his best for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonya A Miller Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? As stated in the lesson, "The doctrine of God's Immutability does not restrict God's action. It means that God's character, desire, and purpose do not change." Prayer may ask God to consider a Plan B, instead of His Plan A. Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of His will? This question brings to my mind Jesus praying on the mount of Olives: "Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." (Luke 22:42) If we are truly one with God, then we'll desire His will to be done. p.s. Chenista, awesome answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 1. If prayer is within Gods will 2. God might answer it, but it will only be within His will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grace Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the immutability of God.? Can God answer prayer for something outside of the scope of God's will? 1. Prayer can change God's mind (or rather God's action) without conflicting with the immutability of God, in a change in the circumstances or a change in the person who is praying for something. 2. God can answer prayer for something outside of His Will, in the sense that He can grant the request of someone who stubbornly refuses God's warnings and is determined to go his own way. EG. the prophet who wanted to curse God's people. This , however, does not change God's character, desire and purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Kho Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Q4. How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? 1st, we can not measured God's mind. God's will is not our will, God's thoughts is not our thoughts and God's heart is not our heart. We can not think God as like us, human! If God's change of plan or mind (and if we aware God's action), it will not conflict with any doctrine; as God answer prayer with Love. Love is above all; that is the basic ingredients for all answered prayer. God's love rules. God can answer all kind of prayers; God is the creator of this universe, nothing is to hard for HIM. God is sovereign; we can not put ourself in the level of GOD's sovereignity. The questions is "Are we ready for that prayer? Are we ready for HIS answer?". Nothing is to hard or impossible for God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffg Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Hi I believe that God has a flexibility which means that while he always operates in a way that consistant with his character and his promises he does listen to our prayers and He can meet our heart's desires. God cannot move outside the scope of His will. He gives good gifts to his children. To illustrate this proposition may i ask the question. Would God give us a snake if we asked for it? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonshine777 Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 How can prayer change God's mind without conflicting with the doctrine of the Immutability of God? Can God answer a prayer for something outside of the scope of his will? The way I see it, God will always act according to His character, desire and purpose. Our prayer can change God's mind only if we know His immutability and therefore can petition for a response from Him that matches it as well as taking care to respond in a way that would be pleasing to Him. I dont believe that He would answer prayer for something outside of the scope of His will. I would say that if someone prayed for opportunities and permission to sin against someone (ex: get even with an enemy), then the opportunity arose - that would be more of a test from God as opposed to answered prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godsanointed523 Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 If their is a prayer that is in God's will then we will know by His Word that it will come to pass. If we pray for something that is not in God's will or plan for the path that he has for us then it is out of the scope of God's mind. if let's say we pray for money or material blessings and we recieve then we turn from Him then God gets upset. It depends on what kind and type of prayer that it is it can change JEsus mind without hurting His father's work. Ask and it shall be given to you,seek and you will find but at the same time if we pray and it does not come to pass or is not confirmed with the Word then it is out of the scope of God's will. God Bless All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 This is a good study. My simplistic answer is that God will not do anything that goes against His own character, including changing His mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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