Q2. Predestination

[BJB123]

There is nothing scary about predestination. If you are not a Christian, then it may seem scary. If you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, then you are not concerned about what has happened or what will happen. You just accept what the Holy Word of God says by your faith.

It is comforting to know that God is in Control of all things. It comforts me to know that I belong to God and that whatever happens and whatever I go through, God is always at my side. He already knows what I am going through and he will carry me all the way through any situation. It comforts me to know that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

Paul brings up predestination to remind us (the Church) that where we are at is not by accident but we are where we are due to Gods plan and purpose for our lives.

Paul is praising God for "Hearing" of Ephesians to remind the Ephesians how special they were to be called by God to be His children and to answer His calling. We need to understand why we were chosen. We were chosen because he loved us and chose us according to His PLANS for us before creation. We need to follow Gods Plan so that we live our lives accordingly.

[Pegi]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

I really don't find anything scary about predestination. Comforting: To know that before I was even born that Christ had prepared the way for me to be adopted by Him. Paul brings it up so that we might be prepared.

[Triciahh]

This is one subject in the Bible that I just have to start by taking on faith that I just do not, and never will, understand. I simply choose to accept that God allows me to make choices, yet my choices are part of His plan. It is extremely frightening if I allow myself to contemplate

[Bob Schlessman]

I don't find anything scary about predestination as I understand it. Paul is speaking of the overall plan of salvation not the preselection of individuals. God predestined that we should have Christ as the way to be justified, saved and begin the process of sanctification. The plan began before time, was spoken of to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the kings and the prophets. I find it comforting that we find order and logic in His plan in the same way there is order and logic throughout creation. We don't know every minute detail, but we have a reasonably complete picture of the overall plan.

[winevine03]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

I think the only thing really scary about it is how it becomes blown out of context and used to decieve people from what it truly means; or gives someone an excuse not to bother to pray, or speak about Jesus to anyone because God has already determined who will go to Heaven.

I think the whole verse is Glorious, and very comforting. It makes me feel secure.

I think Paul brings up predenstination to assure the Ephesus church of its purpose, that they were purposed by God for being and were validated by that .

God is always worthy of our Praise, but we definitely need to be reminded of it, or taught that all things good, and praiseworthy come from Him. But that we are part of God's big plan for the earth is pretty amazing. I think Paul wanted the church in Ephesus to be amazed, and feel worthy of their calling in Christ Jesus to be His church.

[warrior]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

Predestination is being foreordained and is not scary if you think about it correctly, it was not decided who would or would not be saved it was foreordained that everyone should be saved and have eternal life but God gave us a choice and even though He choose us we have the option of refusing Him. It is comforting to know that there was a plan put in place from the beginning to offer me life that I could never have earned or been worthy of through Jesus Christ.

I think Paul brought it up due to like today the church has started getting converts that came from all other religions and wanted them to know we were all predestined to be a child of God through Jesus Christ and that no matter what gods or relgion they had been it was our choice to believe and only through Jesus was our election made sure for all of us.

All blessing come from God and Paul wanted them to know that God the Father desired to give blessing and good gifts to his children. What God gives is a gift and can't be earned by works or our righteousness for we are only righteous through Jesus Christ who bought us with a price making us heirs to the gifts of God.

[Robt]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

The Lord has predestined us to be his sons, yet we still have to abide by his laws to get to heaven

it is my understanding that even though he has already made a list of those going to heaven that one

can change to a christian faith or to a sinner at his own will and it is up to us to follow his word and

live according to his word

[Highlander]

I think what is scary with "predestination" is its wrong concept. Looking at the total picture of the Scripture, I think the teaching of predestination which says that God has already predestined some (actually, a few) to heaven and the rest of mankind was left out or "passed by" (thus, to hell) is UNBIBLICAL. The text (Eph. 1:4-5) in consideration does not teach that.

[Blessed Me]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting?

The scary part of predestination is, what if our God was not a God of mercy and grace? For He predestined us to be holy and without blame before him in love. There is none good, for the heart of man is evil. With predestination comes mans "WILL."

Before the foundation of the world God knew he would send His Son to save mankind, for He predestined that NO man be lost, that is why the Son came to make us victorious, victory is found in Christ Jesus.

Why does Paul bring up predestination?

To make it clear, God never predestined anyone to go to hell, He predestined all to go to heaven, why? because of his good pleasure. God chose the Hebrew people not because of who they were, but in spite of who they were; The same is true for the Gentile people; He chose us in spite of who we are, for He is a God of love, Mercy, and Grace. His desire is to have fellowship with us. It never was God's intent to allow anyone to spend eternity in hell, for hell exists for Satan and his demons.

Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

God chose the Hebrew people and called them "the apple of His eye." We the believers are also a chosen generation, I am with Paul, I send praise and worship up to Him, as praise goes up to the throne - I remember why He predestined me and for what reason, to be holy and without blame before Him in love.

Praise, Glory, and Honor are yours, for I being in Christ, can stand clothed in His righteousness in love.

[Ann Marcia D`ornellas]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

What is scary about predestination. IS because we don`t know our future. If we don`t fully believe in Jesus we will perish and go to a lost eternity

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John :3:16-17

From the begin God had known our parents He told Jeremiah that new him before he was formed in his mother womb and I believe that is same for all of us God knows our begin and our ending before we were born.God was careful enough to prepare eternal life for us Through his Son Jesus Christ.

Ann

[God Seeker]

2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

I think that the scary thing is that one might be like Judas who was chosen to be the only one of the disciples that was lost,the one of pardition. The comforting thing is that we were chosen by God before the begining of the world. He loves us first and chose us to be a part of the body of Christ. He gave the only Son to die for our sins knowing that we are a sinful people,but in love making a way out so that we will not be lost.

He

brought it up so that the Jews and Gentiles that were a part of the church at that time would know that they were a part of God's plan for the world,not just their small church.

To show them that they are to be thankful for all things that God had given them. They should be praising

God for all the ones to comeafter them. That they are to give God praise in good times and bad.

[charisbarak]

Nothing is scary about predestination. When you believe that it is God's will that all come to believe in Him, those predestined are the very ones He knew would believe & accept His gift of salvation. It is a comfort to know He has been planning for us since the beginning of the world as we know it.

Paul probably brought it up to show the Gentiles in Ephesus that they, too, were chosen as was Israel. He is praising God in front of them to encourage them in their walk. There is nothing better than to know you were chosen by God!!

[kcusty]

Predestination can be scary if we don't put our total faith in God. He has a plan and purpose for each of us and unless we are willing to accept this, we will be scared. The good part about predestination is that the comfort of knowing our Heavenly Father has taken each of us and proposed a special plan and purpose for our lives so that we will lead meaningful and complete lives for Christ. Paul brings up the subject of predestination to show how loving our God is to give these gifts to each Christian. Paul is prasing God for it because he wants them to know that God is providing for us always in ways we are not aware of yet. He wants us to know taht God is bleswsing us with every spiritual blessing available to us.

[janet]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

If one misinterpets the meaning of predestination it would be scary. God is a God of love he doesn't create us for some to be destoryed and some to be saved. Everyone has a chance to be saved if one accepts the gift of salvation. It is comforting to know that one has a choice to accept or reject the gift of salvation. Praise God for the gift and I do accept his gift this is comforting for me. Paul I believe brings this up to encourage the believers to let them know that God chose them before the creation of the world; we are created to bring praise and glory to God.

[sarahevans]

Q2. (Ephesians 1:4-5) What is scary about predestination? What is comforting? Why does Paul bring up predestination? Why do you think he praising God for it in the "hearing" of the Ephesians?

it is very interesting that this is one of the first subjects to come up. like you said in your notes, i struggle with the issue that if Christians are predesinted, does that mean other people are not? I hope to learn more about this. one thing is find conforting about this topic is that being in Christ isn't my will and responsibility, but gods. but i am still responsible for submitting everything to god.

Sarah

[ekila]

We have be predestined to sons of God, in christ. Once we accept Christ as our personal Lord and Saviour, It is the manifestation of our predestination in Christ. We have been created for his purpose, how-ever man fell short of the Glory of God, through sin. Our acceptance of Christ as our Lord and saviour reaffirms our predestination in Christ. This is only prossible by accepting Christ.

[PCHRIS]

Probaly can be scary but I realise what a privilege it is to be part of God's plan, remember He knew us in our mothers womb (Jer.1:5), even I still sometimes struggle with what God has in store for my ministry.

This shows me that my faith must rest completely on the work of God. Eph 2:10 tells us 'we are created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.'

Paul brings this up because, as the church at Ephesus needed to be reminded that they are all part of God's work, we need to be reminded we have to be holy and blameless to be fruitful in our ministries/God's work and we are all part of God's plan. I have heard it explained like God is a helicopter pilot He can see our lives from point A to point Z, we only can see one maybe two steps in front of us. We need to put our faith and trust in Him and to be obedient to what He wants us to do.

[bro.ed]

Question #2. What is scary about predestination?

That would be determined by personal view. Personally I have no fears about predestination.

What is comforting? To know that God in willing that none should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Why does Paul bring up predestination? In early Christianity the Jews believed it was for them or for certain people groups and and they wanted to be Christians separated from the Gentiles. Paul was setting them straight in a most loving fashion.

To the praise of His glory. We could go on forever here and never come to an agreement. In my understanding God is God. He is all knowing. He not only knew before the foundation of the world but He knew in eternity past His intentions and what God always intended to do He did. Nothing surprises Him and He will accomplish all He intended to do contrary to our views.

I believe there was only one condemned to hell, that man Lucifer and God was not surprised at his rebellion for God is all knowing. All who follow satan do so by their own free will and God knew from eternity past who they would be. He also knew those who would trust Christ for salvation and those are predestined

to to become Christ like to the praise of His glory. That meant no matter when you were born or your nationality, on the color of your skin, or how great a sinner you were before conversion, we all became as one in the One Person; Christ Jesus our Lord.

Here is a great confidence.Jer.29:11; "I know the plans I have for you", says the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future. Get a hold of that dear Brothers and sisters and cling to it.

Bro.Ed

[dantanc]

The very idea that in the predestination we could have been not in the selected group is very scary. and it is comforting that we are now in the slected group of the mighty God. Paul implies that Ephesian christians are not by acciden but by the very predestination of Almighty God.

[cct1106]

When things and/or life is predestined we do not know what is to be but if you truly have faith and believe it is not scary. Our life was predestined because God had a purpose for each and every one of us and that purpose no matter what will be carried out.

Paul brings it up to remind that God has a purpose and that it will be fulfilled. He praises God because everthing that was prophesied had been done and will be done. The evidence is in the Scriptures.

[haar]

Predestination can be scary if we think of it in the context that those who refuse to accept the plan of salvation have been destined or predetermined to do so by God. Or when a terrible thing happens to the Children of God, it is assummed that God made it or determined in advanve that the situation would happen. I don't think this conclusion is right. I must confess however that predestination is a difficult concept to understand. I pray that God will give the faith to accept His word even when we do not understand it.

The comforting aspect about predestination is the thought that God had me in His mind when He was designing His salvation plan before creation!

The Ephisians needed to Know about the good plan of God for the salvation of "WHOEVER" believes in Jesus christ. God's plan that was pre-planed was EVERY who believes. This was the reason why Paul had to declare to them.

[maddog]

This word, predestination, is misunderstood. I can remember my confusion about predestination as a young person in Christ. I read Webster too clearly. He says: "predesdination is the doctrine that God in consequence of His foreknowlege of all events infallibly guides those who are destined to salvation. If we use a broad brushstroke for this definition, we, as I did, come away wondering about who are the chosen. And, if there are those that are chosen who will enter into the presence of God, regardless, why should we concern ourselves with any of this?

But, I am so glad that God revealed to me that I was predestined to be His before I entered the womb. He loves me so much that He gives wisdom, knowledge, understanding, forgiveness, and our inheritance as heirs to the Kingdom. We are predestined, yes. but, it's what we DO for Christ that matters in the end.

[HeatherJean]

Nothing scary. Comforting because it gives me comfort knowing that God has a plan for each of us and He knows best . Somertimes we may think we know what best for us but we don't.

[germ]

Probably the only scary thing with predestination is peoples and denominations different views of it.

[David M.]

Predestination as an idea is not in itself scary. But the concept of God that some people strain out of it is not only scary but unbiblical. I am encouraged by many of the posts in this forum on the subject. But it never ceases to amaze me how many people there are in the church who fail to recognize what a gigantic leap it is to go from saying "God has mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he hardens," to making the bald assertion that he has absolutely no reason whatsoever for willing what he wills.

I actually once heard a pastor say, (and this is not uncommon) that "His choice is completely arbitrary!"

Now, aside from the obvious question, "How can you possibly know that?", we must also ask, "How can you so aggressively declare something that contradicts everything God says about himself from Genesis to Revelation?"

Apparently the believers who subscribe to the arbitrary doctrine have concluded that this radical interpretation is the only way to avoid developing pridefulness in somehow "deserving" ones own salvation. Now the whole history of the church reveals that Satan's number one most effective deception against believers has been his accusations of various spiritual sins coupled with the fear of committing any of them. One otherwise great Christian leader spent his entire adult life literally hiding his eyes from the beautiful mountains and lakes that greeted him every morning during his early commute. He did this explicitly out of fear that if he soaked up the beauty of nature he would inevitably commit idolatry and worship it. This is so absurd that most of us are shocked by it, but we have all been fooled by the same tactics, to one degree or another. Accusations of pridefulness are no different, and lead to the same kinds of bizarre behaviors and heretical doctrines.

The arbitrary doctrine also leads to an inevitable "tractor beam" theology about our relationship with God. (If you've never seen Star Trek I apologize for the analogy. ) The tractor beam individual emphasizes lots of things like, "He wooed me, He won me, He Drew me to Himself." Now normally these would statements would be fine. But when coupled with tractor beam theology, the meaning of these words inevitably becomes transformed into something like "He wooed (hypnotized) me, He won (kidnapped) me, He drew (manipulated and controlled) me to himself."

I know this sounds strong, but it is exactly what many people really believe. Once again, believers put aside the concept of God being in control and exchange it for the notion that he is controlling, which is not the same thing at all. This is very downgrading to the high and beautiful nature of our relationship with God. Whatever constitutes God's drawing us to himself, we can be assured from all of Scripture that it is not manipulation and control. It may represent a pull, a tug, and most of all an earnest, powerful conversation with us regarding his love and invitation. It does not represent forced assent.

Moreover, to say that it does represent forced assent is to inevitably make a hypocrite of Jesus himself. For when he wept over Jerusalem, he spoke of how he had longed to draw them to himself, "..but you were unwilling." Now Jesus is God, and completely at one with the will of the Father, so his weeping and emotional expression of loss over Jerusalem is reduced to sheer hypocrisy if, in the back of his mind, he is also thinking, "Yes, you were unwilling because I used my absolute sovereign power over you to FORCE you to be unwilling!"... or even, "You were unwilling because I arbitrarily chose to NOT force you to BE willing." The second thought leads to just as inescapable a conclusion of hypocrisy in his expression of emotion as the first.

I am unwilling to make a hypocrite out of Jesus for any doctrine. Indeed, this claiming to know the mind of God so absolutely that you know that he has no reasons whatsoever for choosing what he chooses is exactly the kind of presumption that God rebuked Job for. (In defending himself against his friends' accusations, Job went too far and essentially accused God of having no reason whatsoever for letting Job go through his terrible tragedies.) It is very telling that God's rebuke of Job was primarily focused on questioning Job about how much he knew of the creation of the universe. The emphasis being that if Job didn't even know these relatively small things, how could he be so bold as to claim to know the mind of God himself so completely that he could accuse God of having no reason for allowing his suffering?

Some people speculate that God's reasons for choosing is based on his foreknowledge, mentioned by Peter. Although this explanation does have a bit of a chicken-and-egg catch to it, I am not certain why it draws such disdainful responses from the arbitrary crowed. Perhaps it is not sophisticated enough. I have seen a lot of smug condescension towards those who take the foreknowledge approach. But I have not seen the smugness backed up by any serious reasoning. Usually only vague references to 'that not being the meaning of foreknowledge'. Aagain, this is backed up by nothing more than bald assertions and implied claims to more sophisticated understanding. (Foreknowledge in Greek is a simple word that means to know intimately ahead of time. Other meanings are based on the type of arcane extrapolation that these same folks would find appalling if it were applied by a skeptic towards the gospel itself.)

But regardless of what you believe about the nature of foreknowledge, it is perfectly legitimate to speculate on what God