Q3. The Disciples' Psychological State

[tgandy]

The disciples' psychological state after the crucifixion was proof that Jesus was resurrected.  They were in a state of shock.  They did not expect Jesus to raise from the dead even though He told them.  They thought the Messiah would be a mighty warrior and defeat the enemies militarily.  They just couldn't come up with a story about his  resurrection because they were in hiding.  These men would not risk their lives for a lie.  Some did not risk it for the truth.

[JoanG]

The disciples were depressed and in a state of shock. They were actually hiding because they were afraid that they were going to be hunted down and be the next ones that were killed. There was not excitment or out ward appearance of going out to preach to others about the risen Christ at this point.

[webster52]

How does the disciples' psychological state after the crucifixion provide excellent support for belief in the resurrection? Even though the disciples knew Jesus raised people from the dead (widow's son at Nain; Jairus' daughter; Lazarus) Jesus was alive then, now, He was dead – how could He raise Himself. They were confounded and overwhelmed. They were distraught with grief, their hopes and dreams shattered. They were desperately in fear for their very lives. They had to be experiencing a whole myriad of emotions. Yet after Jesus appeared to them, THEY BELIEVED! They knew it was Christ Jesus, those emotions turned into gladness, joy, and confidence. Only the LORD can evoke such a change.

[rakovsky]

Q3. How does the disciples' psychological state after the crucifixion provide excellent support for belief in the resurrection?

First, the disciples were moral people who believed in and prayed to God, as their teachings from Jesus their leader would show. So they wouldn't make things up.

Second, they were hiding after the Crucifixion and scared of the Jews, so they needed something to rekindle their faith and bravery.

Third, as Luke 24 and John 20:9 say, the disciples did not foreknow the scripture about the resurrection, so they weren't expecting it, nor would they have been trying to steal the body to prove the resurrection, since they didn't know it was supposed to happen.

Fourth, with the sayings of Jesus we know that they were taught to be wise, not delusional. And even Thomas had doubts. So they were realistic people and only the real resurrection that they saw convinced them powerfully.

Fifth, they were so strong in their faith after the crucifixion that they could risk persecution, lashing, and jail. So they would not make things up either.

The difficulty is that each of these reasons has counterarguments. If their psychological state was like the modern Charismatics who claim group visions and speak in disordery 'tongues', wouldn't it be naive to believe them?

Remember that only about a dozen apostles and women are said to have seen Jesus up close physically. As for the 500 Paul mentioned, for all we know this could have been like the modern Marian apparitions where some in the crowd don't see Mary in the sky.

As for the Five arguments listed above:

1. Charismatics and Mormons have moral teachings and I think pray. But I think the Mormons' leaders and some Charismatic leaders do fabricate things or get delusional, even though they teach morality.

2. It SAYS that they were hiding. But in fact John the apostle was admittedly there with Jesus at the trial and crucifixion, if not the burial. The women were at the crucifixion and burial. So were Nicodemus and Joseph. Peter had been brave enough to cut the guards' ear and Peter and John were brave enough to go out in public to Jesus' grave Sunday morning where there might still have been guards to catch them on the way. Golgotha was outside the city gates so they at least had to go by some guards. So maybe they were not really so scared after all. And how do we know they really were scared and in hiding? Because we have to rely on the evangelists' own claims that they were. So this is circular reasoning: We know that they were scared because we can rely on their testimony, and we can rely on their testimony about themselves because they had to have been scared.

3. Realistically speaking it sounds to me like it would be a mistake to think that the disciples didn't yet know that there was an expectation by Jesus or scripture that the messiah would rise again, as the apologetic argument would say. Jesus himself many times predicted he would get killed and resurrect, and even talked about Jonah's prophecy. The pharisees understood Jesus' words about the rising again, supposedly, to post a guard, so it's hard to think that the apostles didn't understand this.

4. Charismatics and Mormons and the 2nd century gnostic Christians like in the gospel of Thomas had wise sayings but I think the Mormons and gnostics made things up. The disciples did have doubts, but maybe not all those doubts really were answered. The 4th appearance of Jesus was in Matthew 28 on the Mount, and in Greek it literally says "they worshped him and they doubted". Maybe this was like the Marian apparitions where some see Mary and others don't. Maybe some apostles did not see Jesus there and just some apostles did, and so at least "some doubted" (as the KJV says).

5. Can the persecution be exaggerated? How do we know almost all the apostles got killed, unless we rely on extra-Biblical Church Tradition? And when were those Traditions written and by whome? 100 years after the apostles' supposed deaths and written by people who wanted to spread martyrdom stories? Is that reliable?

Gamaliel the Pharisee leader even made a open decision that the pharisees in Jerusalem must not persecute the Christians anymore, according to Acts.

Peter was killed about 30 years after Jesus was, and even then it was on the surprise announcement by Nero blaming Christians for ROme's fire. It was not as if as soon as Christians -the apostles -were found in Rome the Romans killed them.

James was protected by the Romans for 30 years until the Sanhedrin killed him when the Roman governor was away.

Paul made four major journeys around the empire. Although it's true he was occasionally arrested, he still got around quite far.

So it seems like the risk of persecution could easily have been exaggerated, even if Stephen (not one of the 11 disciples who saw Jesus in the gospels) was killed in Antioch, and even if later on under Domitian (90 AD) there could have been real persecution.

[Annelle]

How does the disciples' psychological state after the crucifixion provide excellent support for belief in the resurrection?          

 

They were sad and dejected and in grief. Badly. This means that there were no plan or expectation for the resurrection.

[Old Jerry]

I think that the psychological state after the crucifixion provides excellent support for the belief in the resurrection because they didn’t believe at first that it really happened. It took proof the convince them that the resurrection really happened.

[elaineer]

I think they did not understand all Jesus had taught them. They were scared and hid from the roman soldiers. However,when they saw Jesus and they wounds on his hands and feet ,i think they understood by inspiration of the Holy Spirit what Jesus meant all along. 

[elaineer]

 I think they did not understand all Jesus had taught them. They were scared and hid from the roman soldiers. However,when they saw Jesus and they wounds on his hands and feet ,i think they understood by inspiration of the Holy Spirit what Jesus meant all along. The were filled with the Holy Spirit and went forth to teach and preach the gospel with vigour.

[haar]

Q3. How does the disciples' psychological state after the crucifixion provide excellent support for belief in the resurrection?

A.Initially, the disciples were afraid, in hiding and did not believe the women story that Jesus had risen. Later, after their encounter with the risen Lord, they believed and preached about Him at the expense of their lives. Given this scenario,  it is cast iron guaranty that they risked lives due to their certainty that Jesus rose. 

[Bianca]

The disciples were already discouraged. The disciples had no reason to try to play some sort of game stealing Jesus body or trying to deceive people. They changed after they had found Jesus was resurrected. Only real true facts would bring about that type of change in the disciples. Men can lie and play games but why would the disciples risk their life or give their life up for a lie or some sort of game? No they would not. The resurrection was real.

[carol tuggle]

Well they were in a state of shock.  They were trying to deal with an event they did not understand.  For me it goes to, God is in control and he orchestrates.  We have to accept Gods will and not question why he does what he does.  

[Niyonka16]

Q3. How does the disciples' psychological state after the crucifixion provide excellent support for belief in the resurrection?

ANSWER: They were in hiding, discouraged, and disheartened. They did not at first believe the women's report of Jesus' resurrection. Only after Jesus appeared to them in person did they believe. After the crucifixion and death of Jesus, the disciples were so afraid they secluded themselves behind closed doors. The disciples became transformed from cringing cowards to roaring lions of the faith who fearlessly preached Jesus' resurrection. The disciples had changed dramatically, because they had seen the Risen Lord. They saw him/he spoke to them/the tomb was empty/he ate with them/it was the fulfillment of prophecy etc.…

[crissy464]

The apostles' encounters with the risen Jesus not only solidified their belief in His divinity but also instilled in them a profound sense of hope and empowerment. The resurrection became the cornerstone of their faith, igniting a fervent zeal to share the transformative message of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection with the world.
 

[Kayla M]

On 2/28/2007 at 11:54 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q3. How does the disciples' psychological state after the crucifixion provide excellent support for belief in the resurrection?

The disciples were discouraged, disheartened and in hiding because they believed Jesus was dead and that it was final. Being in this psychological state, I don’t think they would have the motivation to concoct a story about his resurrection because they were in a state of shock. They also wouldn’t be putting on an act. After they realized he wasn’t dead, everything changed about their psychological state - hope was restored.