Pastor Ralph Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? The blood of bulls and goats can't actually take away sin because it was only a shadow of what was to come. It was a act that had to be performed again and again. Animal sacrifices were not adequate because the sins of the greater (the human) were atoned for by the sacrifice of the lesser (the animal). What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? These were atoned for once and for all, when Christ went to the cross and died for the sins of the whole whole, past, present and future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms CJ Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? 1) Greater to Lesser. Animal sacrifices were not adequate because the sins of the greater (the human) were atoned for by the sacrifice of the lesser (the animal). That seems backward. In Christ, the sins of the lesser (the human) were atoned for by the sacrifice of the greater (Christ, the Son of God). Only the sacrifice of the greater for the lesser is actually adequate to atone for our sins. 2) External vs. Internal. Centuries before Christ the prophets were aware that animal sacrifice was not adequate to atone for sins, partly because it dealt with external atonement, but didn't affect the heart of the person. It is the repentant heart, not methodical fulfillment of ritual sacrifice through which God brings salvation. What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? God accepted their sacrifices and offered atonement for their sins -- the shadow -- realizing that the Messiah would come and he would bear in himself -- in reality -- the sins of the whole world -- past, present, and future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabatha Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? When people gathered for an offering of sacrifices on the Day of Atonement, they were reminded of their sins, and they undoubtedly felt guilty all over again. What they needed most was forgiveness-- the permanent powerful, sin-destroying forgiveness we have from Christ. When we confess a sin to Him , We need never think of it again. Christ has forgiven us, and the sin no longer exists. Animal sacrifices were not adequate because the sins of the greater ( the human ) were atoned for by the sacrifice of the lesser ( the Animal ) That seems backward. In Christ, the sins of the lesser ( the human ) were atoned for by the sacrifice of the greater ( Christ, the Son of God ) Only the sacrifice of the greater for the lesser is actually adequate to atone for our sins. The Old testament is types and shadows of things to come. Animal sacrifices could not take away sins; they provided only a temporary way to deal with sin until Jesus came to deal with sin permanently> Old Testament believers were following God's command to offer sacrifices, He graciously forgave them when, by faith, they made their sacrifices. But that practice looked forward to Christ's perfect sacrifice. Christ's way was superior to the Old Testament way because the old way only pointed to what Christ would do to take away sins. Our sins are forgiven from the past, In the present, and in the future as long as we continue to go forward in Christ, No looking back no turning awy, it is finished. Praise God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisbarak Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 The blood of bulls & goats only satisfied the requirement of God for each sin & had to be done every time they sinned. But Jesus, the greater Lamb, fulfilled this requirement for all time & through & through. Those saved out of the early sacrifices are saved in the shadow of Jesus' coming & the Messiah knows those who are His! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? They were for the external cleansing of the person not the internal. They were only for pushing off their sin for one more year as they awaited the coming messiah. They could not have sins forgiven till the perfect sacrifice had been made and animals did not fulfill the perfect sacrifice only Christ could do that. Their sins were removed for one year then they had to make sacrifices again and then they were only preforming an act till the messiah came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helenmm Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? The original sinful agreement between satan and adam was satan with a man,not an animal. The animal cannot satisfy that position, and argue with satan on behalf of the man. But the man, Jesus, can. I believe the sins of Old Testament saints were redeemed by Christ on the Cross, which is an event for all time, past, present and future. I believe His death and resurrection in victory availed the redemption of Old Testament people just as if they were new testament people, in exactly the same way as He redeems us. that death was once and for ALL time, not just subsequent time. God looks from outside of history and ordained Jesus' death before the days of history began. It covers all the days of history. The death of animals was indeed only a thumbprint of what was to be accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masika Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Animals sacrifices were unable to take away sins because they only provided temporary way to deal with sin until Jesus Christ came to deal with sin permanently. The People of the Old Testament were forgiven their sins because they were following God's command to offer sacrifices, He graciously forgave them when, by faith, they made their sacrifices. But that practice looked forward to Christ's perfect sacrifice. Christ's way was superior to The Old Testament way because the old way only pointed to what Christ would do to take away sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATJOE Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? Bulls and goats, being less than humans, were not capable of taking away the sins of life forms greater than themselves. It took the greatness of Jesus, being perfect and Holy, to take away the sins of we "lesser" humans. Also, aimal sacrifices did not touch human hearts to bring about true repentance. In the Old Covenant, God did accept their animal sacrifices for atonement for their sins, knowing that He was also sending His Son, the Messiah, at a later perfect time, who would, in His Holiness and perfection, be the greater sacrifice once, and for all, for the sins of the world - past, present and future, including the people with "atoned for sins" under the Old Covenant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia A Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 [/size][/font]Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? Only the sacrifice of the greater for the lesser is actually adequate to atone for our sins. Therefore, Christ being the greater could atone for our sins while the blood of animals which are lesser than man could not do so. What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? God did not lie when he said, "For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life." (Leviticus 17:11) God accepted their sacrifices and offered atonement for their sins -- the shadow -- realizing that the Messiah would come and he would bear in himself -- in reality -- the sins of the whole world -- past, present, and future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCHRIS Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 The sacrfices of bulls, goats...was only a temporary measure hence the repetitive nature of OT sacrifices. With Christ, the sacrifice was once done, never to be repeated for the total cleansing. As Pastor Ralph gave his understanding of it Greater to Lesser. Animal sacrifices were not adequate because the sins of the greater (the human) were atoned for by the sacrifice of the lesser (the animal). That seems backward. In Christ, the sins of the lesser (the human) were atoned for by the sacrifice of the greater (Christ, the Son of God). Only the sacrifice of the greater for the lesser is actually adequate to atone for our sins. External vs. Internal. Centuries before Christ the prophets were aware that animal sacrifice was not adequate to atone for sins, partly because it dealt with external atonement, but didn't affect the heart of the person. It is the repentant heart, not methodical fulfillment of ritual sacrifice through which God brings salvation. For example, read: Psalm 50:8-15. "Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? Sacrifice thank offerings to God, fulfill your vows to the Most High." Isaiah 1:11-15. "'The multitude of your sacrifices -- what are they to me?' says the LORD.... "Wash and make yourselves clean... Stop doing wrong, learn to do right. Seek justice...." Hosea 6:6. " For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Amos 5:21-25. "Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them.... But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!" Shadow vs. Reality. The author of Hebrews has compared the tabernacle as a shadow, a copy, a pattern of the original, with the true tabernacle being in heaven. Sacrifices are the shadow, Christ is the true sacrifice that animal sacrifices point to. God instructs his people through the shadow so they will be able to understand the reality. As for those OT saints, again quoting Pastor Ralph - God accepted their sacrifices and offered atonement for their sins -- the shadow -- realizing that the Messiah would come and he would bear in himself -- in reality -- the sins of the whole world -- past, present, and future! I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s8nfighter Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? The blood of bulls was an atoning sacrifice only because this is the sacrifice which God had set as acceptable in the OT. Did he like it? No, because he said, "Is not obediance better than sacrifice?" And in chapter 8 of this study the writer points out this, "9 This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt. They did not remain faithful to my covenant, so I turned my back on them, says the Lord." The thing that separates the New from the Old is that God is himself the sacrifice and therefore will never again turn his back on us, but will remain hopeful that we come into obediance. Have the sins of the world been taken away already, or is that to come later?? When Jesus returns in final judgement every knee will bow and I believe that is when all the sins of the world will be taken away. We accept God's sacrifice of His Son as our atonement to bring us back into faith in Him, for sin cannot remain faithful. Jesus says this about sin and His return, Matt. 24:12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. 13 But those who endure to the end will be saved. 14 And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then, finally, the end will come. With televangelests promising the first 300 people who send in a thousand dollars will become millionares within 90 days (Inspiration today telecast June 24 2007) and the other things going on in the world, I wonder how close we are to those times Jesus is refering to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahala p.s. Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? The blood of bulls and goats actually can't take away sin because first, animal sacrifices are lesser than the sins so that they are not adequate to atone the sins, but Christ can take away sin because the sacrifice of Christ is greater than the sins; second, it is external, the sins is internal, in the heart of the person, the external can't affect the internal. Third, animal sacrifices are the shadow, copy of the original in heaven, Christ is the true sacrifice that they point to. The shadow can't substitute the true. The sins of the Old Testament saints were atoned for by Christ's sacrifice, by his blood. Jesus bore in himself the sins of the whole world, past, present, and future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Rupert Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? Because the sins of humans (greater) were being atoned for by the lesser (animals) it only allowed for the outer cleasing because it was not in the heart of man. What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? Christ sacrifice ce was for the atonement for all sins, past, present and future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loisb Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 1. The sacrifice of animals to atone for a human did not take away their sins because the animal was the lesser and man the greater and sacrificing an animal did not affect the heart of a human. You must have a repentant heart. It is impossible for animals to take away sins. 2. Christ paid the price for the past, present and future sins. The Priest had to continually pray for forgiveness for man, because he kept sinning, but now we can make atonement for ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOnLine Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? Because the sins of man cannot be taken away by a lesser being, the animal. What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? God accepted their sacrifices and their sins were forgiven, but the sacrifice had to be repeated every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 The blood of bulls and goats cannot change the heart of man. Only God can do that. The forgiveness of sins under the old covenant were looking to the New Covenant instituted by Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Our sin is greater than the sacrifice of the animal. The sacrifice needs to be greater than the sin. Since Christ died once for all, it is covered by His Blood. Through the sacrifice that Jesus made, ALL sin has been atoned for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda bass Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 The blood of bulls and goats can't actually take away sin because it wasn't enough to atone for the sins of man. Plus animal sacriface couldn't affect the heart of the person. God accepted the scarifaces of the Old Testament saints as atonement for sin, realizing that the Messiah would come and atone for the sins of the whole world-past, present, and future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewell Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 They can't take away sin because they are administered externally - true repentance comes internally from the heart. God accepted the sacrifices of the old testament under the old covenant and offered atonement for their sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eudora Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? Because the animal that died, never took away the guilt of the human, nor the sin. What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? God is gracious and forgiving. the old testament folks were following what they were told and those who believed that God was God and that by doing the animal sacrifices, that their sins would be forgiven. They were following commandment and living in that obedience, because even then, they were walking in faith that God would keep His word and forgive them by their actions of sacrifice. This old way, still pointed to the future in Christ Jesus who shed blood on the alter of the crossand became the ultimate sacrifice.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkH Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? This is not to say that animals are not an important part of God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don W Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Their blood couldn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cee Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? What happened then to the sins the Old Testament saints thought were atoned for under the Old Covenant? Because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away the sins. An animal cannot possibly be a completely adequate substitute for a human being who is made in God's image. The sins in the Old Testament are forgiven by God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjjj Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Q4. (Hebrews 10:4) Why can't the blood of bulls and goats actually take away sin? They were only shadows of the reality- Christ (10:1). These ceremonial sacrifices were pointing to a sacrifice that could truly take away sin, that is, Christ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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