Q3. Christmas Hardships

[Pastor Ralph]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

[sjb]

Q2.

Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary?

Oh, my goodness, Pastor Ralph! You've got to be talking about the psychological difficulty here! All us women KNOW the physical difficulties! Every time I see pictures of Joseph leading that donkey carrying Mary, I shudder! I'll bet that is just a man's idea. Mary would have walked until she couldn't walk any more before she got on that donkey! Psychologically and emotionally, the journey had to have been difficult for Mary as well. Here she was nine months pregnant, and how many people do you think--besides Joseph and Elizabeth--believed the story of Mary's impregnation?? Well, maybe old Zechariah had come to some understanding of what God could do after he had been struck mute for almost a year! Her faith had to sustain her. Hope had to be there. Here she had been told that she was carrying the Messiah himself, yet she had a stable as a birthing room and a manger for his bed.

Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life?

Of course not! I remember the disappointment I felt in my mother when she found that she had breast cancer. Her attitude was that she didn't deserve it, and she lay down and pouted at God until the surgery and chemo cured her. All the while, I was taking her in for doctor visits and treatments, sitting in the waiting room where so many courageous people sat and smiled and went on with their lives despite the pain, the nausea from the medicine, the loss of independence, and thousands of other changes that had been made in their lives because of their illnesses. And yes, I would see some one week and read their obituaries in the paper the following week. No one is going through this life without trouble and hardship. Let's take a lesson from Job.

Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

I really laughed at this "extra credit question" because I had just read somewhere in a devotional that we sometimes get what we pray for, even when we really didn't want the answer to be like that. The illustration the author used was when we ask for patience--something that I was never blessed with. Paraphrasing, he said something like this: When you ask for patience, be prepared for God to give you lots of experiences which require patience. In other words, we learn by doing. I think I'm going to tell God that I have all the patience I need now! Seriously, though, some people view Christians as people in sack cloth and ashes with absolutely no fun in their lives. All us Christians know that isn't true. What we gain in living in right relationship with our Lord far offsets what we readily yield up.

[SojournersHeart]

I have always wondered about the climate around Bethlehem...so I looked it up:

Jerusalem is situated at a relatively high altitude, and therefore experiences quite cold, wet winters with occasional light snowfalls. By contrast summers are dry and warm, with low humidity and temperatures averaging around 75

[SojournersHeart]

Every time I see pictures of Joseph leading that donkey carrying Mary, I shudder! I'll bet that is just a man's idea. Mary would have walked until she couldn't walk any more before she got on that donkey!

I have had the same reaction!

I really appreciated your comments about your mother's attitude toward her breast cancer. I have never had anything that bad happen to me, but I tend to be a whiner and used to get mad at God and say things like, "Yeah, if you are such a loving God, why don't you do something about this!" Job really helped me get a handle on that.

[Elwood C O'Dell]

First of all, pleasure is not always a sign of whether or not you are in God

[Roxanne]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

BEING WITH CHILD ON A DONKEY ..DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS OUT THERE AFRAID BEING PREGNANT WITH HER FIRST CHILD NOT ONLY ANY CHILD ..THE HEAVENLY CHILD .. SHE WANTED THINGS TO BE JUST RIGHT TO BRING HER KING INTO THE WORLD....BUT SHE WAS PROBABLY COLD SCARED ....AND PROBABLY NOT FEELING TO GOOD...AND THEN LAYING DOWN IN A BARN IN ALL THE FECES AND STUFF TO GIVE BIRTH.... NO BECAUSE GOD ALLOWS THINGS HAPPEN TO PEOPLE ..YOU CAN BE CHRISTIAN AND NOT FOLLOW GOD LAWS ..BUT NO MATTER WHAT GOD ALWAYS WORKS OUT THINGS FOR THE GOOD FOR PEOPLE WHO LOVE HIM... YES MOTHER NEEDED A NEW HEART VALVE THE DOCTORS SAID SHE WOULD PROBABLY DIE ..SHE WOULD NOT SURIVE THE OPERATION.. BUT SHE DID ,IT WAS GOD'S WILL FOR HER LIFE...... I believe this is true ,because the enemy is out to kill ,steal and destroy us ...SO THE CLOSER WE GET TO GOD ..THE ENEMY STICKS HIS UGLY HEAD IN

AND STIRS UP THINGS ,,BUT GOD IS THERE AND KNOCKS HIM DOWN AND HE CAN'T AND NEVER WILL WIN... AND I WOULD HAVE IT NO OTHER WAY I AM GLAD TO BE A CHRISTIAN...YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Dar]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary?

When the angel spoke to Mary, there was nothing mentioned on how easy it would be, in fact, Mary knew the road ahead of her would not be easy, she already was part of a people despised by the world: However, Mary knew and loved God, her trust was in Him, this is called "faith" in action, and it pleased God. Is our "faith" in action when things do not go as we want them to go? We must remember, the gate is narrow that leads to the road we must travel.

Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not?

To answer this, I think about (Matthew 2:16-18) How exceedingly wroth Herod was when mocked of the wise men, and he slew all the children in Bethlehem, fulfilling that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, "in Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not". (Jerimiah 31:15)

There was weeping in Ramah, as Rachel the mothers of Israel wept for the children Herod had ordered annihilated in his attempt to kill the Christ Child.

As the angels sang "Peace on earth" it also spoke of Bethelehem and how we hear her cry. Israel sees no pleasure at this time, but Jeremiah gives hope to Israel in chapters 30-33. The LORD says "Don't cry I hear the weeping that is going on in Israel, but you don't see what's coming, your children shall return, stronger than ever."

Yes, we can experience weeping while in God's will, but, we must remember to stay in His will, for we know what the future holds for those who stay in faith; Good things are coming, the blessings God has for us are so much greater than any hurts and sorrows this world can send our way.

Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

I would argue that being a consistent Christian can cause more hardships than going with the flow.------- Going with the flow is following the ruler of this world, Satan.

I think about Job, a man blameless and upright, consistent in his faith in God. Satan insisted the integrity Job had was because he was never tested; However, God knew the heart of Job and allowed him to go through this testing.

Job had three friends who instead of comforting him in this time of trouble, they tried to show Job the reasons for his suffering, however, Job came to understand what was in his heart, he knew he loved God and didn't deserve such treatment.

As God spoke, He did not discuss why the righteous suffer, instead He made it clear----- He is the Almighty, and He always does what is right, His ways are not our ways!

It was through these testings that Job came to truly understand how Great God is, and how small mankind is; If man remains "faithful" to The Almighty, it is mans consistent "faith" that brings man into the presence of God; it is then that we can see our greatness in God's eyes.

As we stay true to God, then we will know joy that is unspeakble, and as His love comes down upon us, it is then we can truly say, "Even if He slay me, yet will I trust Him."

God tells us, "If we love the Son, He will love us also." I would rather be a consistent Christian, then have all the pleasures of this world.

[love.serve.know]

I think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary because she didn't have female relatives to comfort her in a really scary time. Usually, older relatives help out when a baby is being born. She knew she would face it alone. Also, physically she would have been miserable even if she were on a feather bed! Pleasure is not an indicator that we are in God's will. II Corinthians 12:10 says (Paul talking), "For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardship, persecutions, and calamities" - no picnic! Christ didn't promise a bed of roses for those who follow Him. However, there is much joy (Paul says contentment), and peace in spite of the hardships. Our rewards are not in this life, but in the life to come where we will live forever in heaven with Christ.

[masika]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

This is because someone who is late in her pregnant is not easy thing to walk that distance. If it where today, one could say it can be better, but not during that time, when means of transport was mostly animal and rough roads.

Pleasure can be an indication that we are in God

[JustJeff]

Mary's trip to Bethlehem might have been difficult for her in many ways. Late term pregnancy, unknown future, new city, a husband, carrying God's child. A lot to bear for a mere child.

God blesses us in many ways and I have had many pleasurable blessings, too many to enumerate.

Being as the Lord; "the same yesterday, today and forever" will bring hardships. Crucifying the flesh is not easy. It requires great sacrifice and suffering. Without a battle we cannot claim the victory.

[Loisb]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow".

1. Mary was a young girl in her last month of pregnancy, traveling on or off a donkey for four days in the winter, and not have a place of comfort to have her baby would have been difficult for anyone. She didn't know what was going to happen when giving birth and didn't have another woman these to assure her.

2. Being in God's will is seldom without difficulties. We were not promised that being in God's will would always be easy.

3. I know some Christians that it seems like they live the perfect life --go to curch always, don't gossip, don't swear, treat people right, don't steal, don't lie, and still they are either constantly sick or have so many family problems; but they still put their faith in God. To the unbeliever, it looks like this isn't the way it should be.

4. Sometimes being a consistent Christian is hard, but you have to continue to put all your trust in god to bring you through. I often think about we are no better that Jesus and He suffered and never knew any sin at all.

[mags]

The journey would have been extremely difficult given the circumstances - Mary is 9 months pregnant (uncomfortable enough), has to travel 4 days on foot and doneky and on top of that, it was possibly winter.

Pleasure is not an indicator of whether we are in God's will or not. We face trials and hardships when we are doing God's will. From these trials and hardships we learn more about the will of God, we also draw closer to God in this time!

[davidjjj]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary?

Pregnancy in the late stage!

Mode of transport

Geography of Israel- Nazareth is pretty hilly!

Time 3-4 days

Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not?

Happy comfortable circumstances are not, but inner joy is known

[UncleBlake]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

There are a number of reasons why the journey must have been difficult for Mary. Firstly, there is the physical aspect of it. As you had stated, Mary was a pregnant Teenager. She must have been at, or near the ninth month ( 4 days journey + Luke 2:7 6 And while they were there, the time came for her delivery, Luke 2:6 (AMP)) That is a given. It would have been Josephs' duty to make sure his wife was protected and in relative comfort, she probably (as is most dipictions) rode a donkey most of the way, the jostling about probably made it all somewhat uncomfortable. Also, I am not so sure it was winter...this is why. The Bible states in Luke 2: 8-17 (specifically verse 8) that there were shepherds watching thier flocks at night. They only time Shepherds stayed out all night in the fields with thier sheep keeping watch were when the sheep were lambing. This was done only in the spring time, much close to our spring, around late April or early May. As for the second part of the question, pleasure is no indication as to God's will in the least, just as pain is no indication of God's will. Neither has anything to do with it. God does not inflict either in accordance with His will. God is not a vengeful God. He does not cause pleasure when we are doing His will, and pain when we are not. Pain is a part of life, pleasure is as well. We are creatures that are created to experience pleasure, to be sure, it is a free gift from God, not a reward. EXTRA CREDIT: In the "argument" :Being a consistant Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow"; one could indeed argue either point and be correct. The statement is, however, a trick statement. Being a consistant Christian is what, if we are indeed Christians, we are called to do. (Luke12:41). In doing so, and living in the world, indeed we will run up against times and circumstances where we are tempted or even mandated by the world to go against our Christian morals. (Ephesians 4:17). If we go one way, we go against what we are called to do as Christians, thus going against God's will. If we maintain our faith, we go against the norm, society, and possibly even the law, thus causing some potentially serious problems. Done consistantly, that is to say, remaining in our Christian faith consistantly, and going against an ever increasingly evil world; the answer would be yes, most certainly doing so causes more hardships. However, one must look at the consequences of not doing so. I am not talking about worldly consequences, but the eternal consequences. So, in that light, no, it does not.

[lindajellis57]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

At nine months, Mary was not really in any shape to travel. It was cold and aside from Joseph lonely. No comfort from familair sources, home and family.

Pleasure is not an indication that we are in God's will. Pleasure can come from wordly sources as well as spiritual ones.

I find pleasure in Praising God for all he does for me. I enjoy being in nature and also surrounded be children's laughter and fun.

Beingf a consistent Christian is hard. The more I do things for my Lord the more the Devil wants to steal, kill and destroy.

[Shaz6]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

It was difficult for her because she was heavly pregnant, it was winter and it was a long way to Bethlehem. We do get pleasure from being in God's will but we have a lot of hard times too because we are supposed to be in the world but not of the world.

[ljc]

I have only had one child, but I can remember how I felt on the last month of my pregnancy and how uncomfortable traveling in a car was for me. My stomach was so big that I could not tie my shoes. I cannot imagine walking for any distance or riding a donkey. The back pain was enough to make me sit up the last month at night to sleep.

Besides the physical pain to Mary, I can imagine the mental strain. She was young, not married, and without her mother to give her any indication of what to expect. The fact that the child would be Holy............I wonder if she feared that the child would have wings like the angels or different from just a human on the outside features.

If life were easy for Christians, we would never know how to cope with problems in our lives, much less how to help others in their times of need. God may will us to have hardships and others things that do not eqate to a fairytale life.

He is there for us always. Sometimes we might seek pleasures that are the devil's doing. Those hurt us when we participate in those outside the will of God.

Being a consistent Christian sometimes causes one to spend a lot of time being alone. One never is wrong for doing what is right. Some people who profess to be friends desert those people taking a stand for Christ. Also, even getting a job is often difficult when one is known to do what is right. Many workplaces want team players and if the team is playing dirty, they want one to become one too.

One of my best friends worked so hard in our church, introducing changes that made the church a church not luke warm, but HOT to do God's work. The established members constantly put her ideas down until she stopped teaching a Sunday School Class and now she is considering finding a church where she feels that she is wanted. Being a consistent Christian is very difficult.

[Craig]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

The journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary for some of the following reasons:

- She is well into her pregnancy.

- It's a four day journey covering over 100 miles on the back of a donkey.

- The terrain over which they travel is rough and there are no creature comforts on the way, i.e. Comfort Inns; McDonalds' Resturants; etc.

- It is just Joseph and Mary and what resources they had. They obtained food as it was available and they camped along the way. Pretty tough on a pregnant girl. In addition, Joseph most likely walked the entire route.

Pleasure has nothing to do with being in the will of God. Look at John the Baptist or the thousands of saints throughout time who have lived in proverty and/or lost their physical bodies in serving the Lord. Rick Warren has noted that God is not interested in our comfort, but in building our character. Additionally, sometimes being in the center of God's will can be the most dangerous place in the universe. However, God is there with us as He was with Joseph and Mary.

An example in my own life is occurring right now. I am the Pastor of a new church start -- Grace Community Church of Live Oak, Florida. We will be one year old on 21 Jan 08. It has been an exciting year. To get this church off the ground, the Lord has lead me not to take a salary from my church until a point in time when He indicates it's time. This causes some hardship on the finances, but God continually provides for my family. Again, like Rick Warren maintains, God isn't interested in my comfort, but developing my character and He is making provision for my family. Additionally, my church of 55 is bridging dominations and races and that has caused some racist backlash in the community, but the result has been nothing short of awesome as Christians across the board are coming together regardless of racism and sectarianism.

Praise God all the way.

Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow, because being a consistent Christian means standing for the values of Jesus Christ at all times not just when it is convenient or makes me feel comfortable. Standing for Christ consistency causes discomfort among many "church going" Christians. An example of this is when I was called to Jail Ministry after ernestly praying for a cutting edge ministry to share the Gospel with people that I did not know. The church I was attending at the time could not understand why was ministering on Wednesday and Sunday nights in jail to the unsavored or Christians who found themselves in jail. They resented the fact that I was not with them, but in the jail ministering. They had their priorities wrong. I asked God for an opportunity to carry out the great commission in my life and He answered it. My church at the time hated it. No exaggeration.

Serving the Lord can create uncomfortable situations, but the joy of service is awesome and overwhelming. Thank-you

God Almighty.

[les]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

the long journey was difficult even if not pregnant crude paths ,hills ,uncomfortable transportation ,add to that physicall difficulties of the last month of pregnancy back pain ,needing to urinate frequently, swollen feet .... to name a few ! also no family to help her during the delivery no comforts of home not knowing what would happen and how it would feel like to birth the child all these things must not have helped mary be relaxed and expectant of her adventure into motherhood. pleasure is not an indication we are in Gods will look at job, and the apostles they left everything eventually even giving up their very lives for following Jesus .although we may be required to give up a good job or health or possesions for the greater glory of knowing God in a manner made possible if he alone is our security and treasure He allows a peace that defies any human understanding to take hold of our heart and joy is present in any circumstance that we may face. He also provides the strength to overcome or to bear the trials. the Lord called me to ministry and before doing so he impressed this message: one day while i was in prayer He asked me to look outside my room and i did ,there i could see the city and further off the mountains and sea .He asked me to look inside my room and i saw the things i had surrounded myself with my "treasures" i was puzzled but said yes i did and asked Him why he made me check these things out. He then said to me all these things will be destroyed they will not last be carefull what you work for. Since then He has shown me He can prosper me if He so desires it for me but He can also cancel anything that pulls my heart away from Him. the question He always puts in front of me is do i prefer the things and benefits over having Him as what is of most excelent value . He wins every time because He holds my heart and loves me so. in 2timothy 2:10-12 paul puts it plainly and Jesus Himself said to his disciples "in this world you will have trouble but take heart I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD"john 16:33 ; 1 peter4:4; 19 ; 1peter 5:8-9

[Lisa Rupert]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

The journey to Bethlehem was very difficult for Mary, she was preganant, riding on a donkey, carrying a child, in the winter, and this was her first child, I am sure she was afraid.

I believe that pleasure is also an indication but hardship is an indication also. How could you effectively have joy without ever experiencing pain? One can not exist without the other. Or one would not understand what the other was if life was only full of joy or only full of pain. God uses hardships for our benefit, so we can understand and learn from the lessons we are taught aiding us into becoming obedient Christians and experiencing his love as being true and real.

[Patricia A]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary?

The journey took 4 days and travel in those days was difficult. Mary was pregnant making the journey more difficult. It could have been winter and if so, the weather during this Season would have added to the stress of making this trip.

Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not?

Doing God's will does not always mean life will be easy or full of pleasure but it does mean we will have a special joy in our hearts.

Any examples from your life?

I have helped take care of a relative who was ill. At times, this was a very tiring and difficult task and yet it was satisfying as I felt I was doing God's will.

Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

Being a consistent Christian brings a special peace of knowing even in times of trials and undesirable circumstances we can still have peace and joy. Going with the flow can bring despair when trials arise and one doesn't have the comfort of knowing Jesus and know His care even when things are not as we would like them to be.

[Bro Steven]

Was Mary's trip difficult? I don't know if it was or not but when my wife was with my first child i know that the closer the birth date came the more pain she was in and we have modern transportation vs a donkey which is a much harder ride that a car.

Pleasure or pain is not a system of being in God's will. Look at all the Apostles if pleasure is a system of God's will then why were there deaths so harsh. Look a Daniel thrown in a lions den because he prayed to God almighty!!!!!

I wouldn't say that being a christian causes any hardships vs the rest of the world the word of God says the things that are seen are temperal the things that are unseen are eternal.

[RAJU]

Q2. Why do you think the journey to Bethlehem was difficult for Mary? Is pleasure an indication that we are in God's will or not? Any examples from your life? Extra Credit: Argue for or against this proposition: "Being a consistent Christian causes more hardships than just going with the flow."

The journey to Behlehem was a long and difficult ride - it was , what , is now , the ride into history - because had it not happened - probably (we shudder to think) , The Messiah wouldnt have been born . Of course God would have other ways to keep his promise to Israel of the coming of the Messiah

Anyway , pleasure or the absence of it , is not an indication of Gods will or not !!!!!

[June]

Leaving family and not knowing what lies ahead is in itself scary for a teenager, but going to unknown territory.And being pregnant and riding on a donkey----- she must have been jostled about going over rough terrain.

Pleasure is no indication that you are in God's will because Satan can cause to have fun and enjoy things outside the will of God. Satan will cloud your thinking, put a film over your eyes so you will think and do what he wants you to do. Being a consistent Christian-- you go through more tests and trials and by doing so --you have a testimony. By just going with the flow --you do what pleases the flesh and not always God's will for your life.

By being a consistent Christian you always do God's will and don't let Satan detour you from what is right.

[Patsy Laycoax]

Mary's journey would have been difficult because just being near to giving birth is very difficult and uncomfortable.

Pleasure isn't any indication of being in God's will. Many people who are in difficult circumstances are in God's will,like Mary. Most of the time when a person does not face any difficulties,it is a good indication they are not in God's will.

I am facing difficulties right at this time in my life but I am sure I am living in God's will,I am fellowshipping with him everyday.