Q1. Fulfilling the Old Testament Law

[Old Jerry]

I can see the tendency in the church today to effectively “abolish” the Old Testament from Christian faith by not teaching it. There is little teaching of the Old Testament and if we are not learning about the Old Testament, then we are “abolishing” it.

Church legalism looks like people majoring in the minors. They like to take things and are not specifically mentioned in the Bible and making them the major point of their belief. A church that has no moral standards and no obedience expected of Christians is one of chaos. They have no direction and they are always thinking of themselves.

[Karen11]

On 12/19/2007 at 9:52 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q1. (Matthew 5:17-20) Can you see any tendencies in the church today to effectively "abolish" the Old Testament from our Christian faith? What does a "Christian" legalism look like in a church? What does it look like in a church where there are no moral standards and no obedience expected of Christians?

Some churches focus only on the New Testament, I don't hear them ever read or talk about the Old Testament.

Rules of the church, that are to be followed.

It's almost like come to church do your good deed, give your tithe see you next week, Missing the true meaning of why we go to church.

 

[MosesSole]

On 12/19/2007 at 9:52 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q1. (Matthew 5:17-20) Can you see any tendencies in the church today to effectively "abolish" the Old Testament from our Christian faith? I can't speak to what the churches are doing today but based on just reading the Old Testament, versus the New, it's looking like the teaching of Jesus undermines the Ten Commandments. Moses brought out the laws based on the physical Word of God, and those laws were meant for people to live justly and righteously. The teaching of Jesus is all about forgiveness and the result is a lack of accountability for any wrongdoing. If you keep forgiving people that abuse their neighbors, they will never be motivated to stop hurting people. There is no atonement for sin and evil will continue to prosper.

What does a "Christian" legalism look like in a church? What does it look like in a church where there are no moral standards and no obedience expected of Christians?  I think our society places greater emphasis on the laws of the State, "Man's laws," rather than religious or Moral laws as they pertain to sin. Churches have to find a balance between the two because both serve God's Word, which is for His children to live righteously and without sin. In order to live in a civilized society, we need to hold ourselves accountable equally to Moral laws and Man's laws. Essentially, if you behave and act with the highest sense of morality, you will most likely not be in violation of the laws of the State. You are righteous if you abide in both sets of laws, because both mirror the other. Obviously, any church that disregards standards of any kind, is one which invites violence and chaos and that goes against the teaching of both Old and New Testaments.

 

[Irmela]

1.1 Can you see any tendencies in the church today to effectively "abolish" the O.T. from the Christian Faith?

 

It does not matter how hard one tries, but the O.T. is part and parcel of the Christian Faith and it will never be successfully be abolished. The Christian Faith is built on what the law teaches. .... Jesus Himself said: 'I came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill them'.

 

1.2 What does a "Christian" legalism lool like in a church?

 

"Christian legalism" is following rituals. I understand from that, that there are laws, upon how to keep the laws or rules, upon the original laws. (eg. thou shalt love thy neighbour is understood to hate thy enemy, whereas Jesus interpreted it as loving thine enemy) i.e. there are extra rules and regulations almost 'explaining' what the original ones were interpreted to say (sometimes it was not correct). 

Putting it plainly I guess one can say, legalism is concerned with the external keeping of the interpretation of the law rather than the spirit of the law.

 

1.3 What does it look like in a church where there are no moral standards and no obedience expected of Christians?

There is no difference in that church than in the "world". Not "true believers". The "Light" would have pointed out the wrong lifestyles/ immoral behaviour.

[Niyonka16]

Q1. (Matthew 5:17-20) Can you see any tendencies in the church today to effectively "abolish" the Old Testament from our Christian faith?

ANSWER: There are many reasons why it is important for Christians to know the Old Testament: its basic plot, the characters, and the stories.

1. First of all: it is scripture. It is part of the Bible. In fact, the Old Testament is nearly 80% of the Christian Bible. To ignore it, or to not know it, is to be ignorant of most of scripture.
2. Another reason to know the Old Testament is that the Christian faith has always affirmed that the God of the Old Testament is also the God of the New Testament.
3. A third reason to know the Old Testament is actually found in the New Testament. The New Testament is clear. Jesus was a Jew, sent by the Jewish God, to the Jewish people, in fulfillment of the Jewish scriptures. The story of Jesus, and the birth of our faith is a part of the larger story found in the Bible.

The entire New Testament is based on the Old Testament. To understand Jesus and His ministry, to understand the books of the New Testament, to understand the message of the New Testament, to understand the God of the New Testament, we need to know the Old Testament.

What does a "Christian" legalism look like in a church?

ANSWER: The Legalists believed that human beings are inherently selfish and short-sighted and that political institutions should be modeled in response to the realities of human behavior. The ethics of a Legalism is the attitude that it is sufficient to follow laws and rules to be a moral person. The main goal of Legalism is to enforce a practical and strategic political system, while considering honor and ethics as secondary. used laws to regulate the people, and usually these laws lean towards draconian. The purpose of these was for the overall benefit of the country.

Here are a few questions to ask yourself which can help determine whether your church is fostering legalism.

1. The people in your church have an “Us vs. Them” mentality: Those who believe in Jesus are good. Those who don’t believe in Him are bad.
2. There’s talk about the church extending “too much grace” when it comes to a less-than-desirable person in the pew.
3. You notice there seem to be many people who never believe they’re doing enough for God. They say things like, “I should pray more often” rather than “I love to pray.”
4. Outsiders don’t visit often (perhaps because the church his known for its legalism). People who are deeply hurting due to their sins or poor choices feel humiliated and embarrassed around you or people in your congregation.
5. Congregants actively avoid people who have a different worldview from them or who struggle with an outwardly visible sin.
6. There’s a general attitude among church members that being right is more important than being kind.
7. People are smug about their Bible knowledge and feel superior to those less educated about Scripture.
8. People who are deeply hurting due to their sins/poor choices feel humiliated and embarrassed around you.
9. This list has made you very uncomfortable, angry or indignant and you want to start defending yourself or your congregation—with Bible verses.

What does it look like in a church where there are no moral standards and no obedience expected of Christians?

ANSWER: The Christian moral code is based primarily on the teachings of Jesus and the two moral principles that it is based on are to love God and to love people. The Christian moral code is derived from the teachings in the Bible on how to conduct oneself, what God condemns as sinful, and how to treat your fellow man. The main foundation of Christian ethics is the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospels, primarily the Sermon on the Mount, and the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament. The ethics of Christian are because: … Christian ethics are moral guidelines that serve to show Christians how they should live. They are important to Christians because they follow the teachings of the Bible and Jesus Christ.

The the ethics of Christianity are because: … Christian ethics are standards of right and wrong based on the “Christian Bible” and the teachings of “Jesus Christ”, the Old Testament prophets, and the New Testament apostles. They serve as a guide for Christians on the way that they should live.

The importance of obeying God is foundational to a life guided by faith. Real obedience to the Lord is exclusive, exhaustive, immediate, and indiscriminate. That is the type of obedience that Heaven responds to and honors. Partial, delayed, or selective obedience is just another word for disobedience. Our efforts to avoid legalism and our tendency to give in to laziness can lead us to downplay the importance of obedience. Here are two reasons it’s worth bringing obedience back to the forefront of regular Christian living.

1. Obedience Pleases God: the person who willingly submits to the Lord receives the stunning blessing of walking more closely with Him.
2. Obedience Demonstrates Belief: Obedience is the hard proof of belief, to God, to others, and to ourselves, that we take our Father at His Word and we’re willing to stake our lives on it.

Furthermore, obedience is the hard proof of belief, to God, to others, and to ourselves, that we take our Father at His Word and we’re willing to stake our lives on it. “When we live in obedience to Christ, we build our lives on a firm foundation.”

[Lisa Wolf]

Q1. (Matthew 5:17-20) Can you see any tendencies in the church today to effectively "abolish" the Old Testament from our Christian faith? What does a "Christian" legalism look like in a church? What does it look like in a church where there are no moral standards and no obedience expected of Christians?

The church we belong to is dedicated to the Word of God.  The pastors tell the congregation they have a strong desire to preach through the entire Bible.  2 years ago, they did 1/2 of the Psalms, last year the Gospel of John, followed be Amos, and now on to the Corinthians.  They read every word and preach every word. 

Legalism in a church...people who have no depth of relationship with God and many, many rules.  If a church has no moral standards and no obedience to Christ expected, it looks like the culture of the world.  Unfortunately, many churches are like that. Not every church preaches against the culture.  Not everyone who calls themself a Christian understands how Jesus would walk in each cultural situation, and most pastors do not involve themselves in the day-to-day of the flock.  For example,a niece and nephew would 'say' they are Christian, but both are living with their boyfriend/girlfriend.