Q4. Disobedient Disciples?

[royk]

Q4. (Matthew 7:24-27) Does Jesus require obedience of his disciples? (John 15:14). Is there a kind of true Christian who believes, but does not obey? How do you justify Jesus' requirement of obedience with Paul's teaching that salvation is a gift, not because of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-10)?

We can continue to 'rationalize' what we think God will allow since it seems so reasonable to worship a football team more than spending equivalent time with God. We should only go into battle for the Lord with the Lord. We are defensible against Satan and his twisting ofg worldly truths instead of following God's commandments.

We can see from the holy life of Jesus that His loving offer to die for our sins is another thing he did for us that we don't merit; but he had to do it to get the ball rolling for humanity to come closer to Him, to God. This is our only salvation.

[wifee]

4a)Jesus commands his disciples to love each other as he loved them. Part of that loving is obeying what he asks of us.Good works for God are not sufficient evidence that we are His.

b)A Christian who believes but does not obey, doesn’t grow and misses out on life with Jesus as head.

c) Salvation is a free gift of God’s grace. He chose us and gives us the gift of faith as we open our hearts to him.Jesus came to save us from our sin, and redeem us for our righteousness Ephes 2:8-10 Paul is talking about free gift that we do nothing to earn. Jesus is referring to our walk with him after we have been saved. It is from that love for Jesus &his sacrifice for us, that we try to do our best to follow obediently all he asks of us. True obedience comes from submitting our will to God.

[Highohfaith]

Q4. (Matthew 7:24-27) Does Jesus require obedience of his disciples? (John 15:14). Is there a kind of true Christian who believes, but does not obey? How do you justify Jesus' requirement of obedience with Paul's teaching that salvation is a gift, not because of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-10)?

Yes, Jesus requires obedience. When we become Christians, we must seek to obey the Lord, this is part of our commitment to God. To submit or conform to His authority. As I said in an earlier post, we don't always get it right, that's impossible, because we humans are sinful by nature.That doe not EXCUSE us!!! We must never stop listening to the promptings of the Holy Spirit. We MUST trust Jesus' word in all that we do. It isn't easy to change and we CAN'T change ourselves. Only through submission to the teaching of the Holy Spirit will we continue to grow in the word, be sanctified, become righteous. As Christians we must seek the word always, and seek to obey Jesus. We must have deep roots. God never promised everything would be easy.His promise is He will always be with us and He is! He is a sovereign, faithful, loving Father, we must respect, honor and OBEY Him.

As a child growing us my earthly father would reprimand us if we were not respectful, one thing he was very adamant about was not "talking back" . I realize now, that he didn't want us talking back to him because No1.) it was an act of rebellion against the lesson he was trying to teach us, and most importantly, No 2.) if we were talking back we weren't HEARING what he was saying. Thus we were not learning the lesson very well. It is more so with our Father in heaven. Do not "talk back" disagree with his word because His word is our TRUTH always. We must heed the Word."Those that have ears, let them hear' . Yes, sometimes we can hear and not listen!

Any of us whom are married or are in, or have been in, a long term relationship know oftentimes when we're speaking with our partner, we know in our hearts he/she, hears us, but he/she is not going to listen. Same with our children. It is like saying something to someone when they have their back to you and are walking away. You know they really have no interest in what you are saying. They are hearing you, but they are not listening to you.It is very important that we follow God's word.That we HEAR and RESPECT,TRUST what He instructs. He will never instruct us to do anything which is not good for us. He is faithful and loves us, put all your stock in HIS WORD. His words is our instruction for living life on earth abundantly (I don't mean material wealth here). An abundance of Faith and Love for the Father who created us. Once your heart is filled, it will never again be the same. You will WANT to hear what our Father has to say. You will want to hear Him and obey Him , it will be your lifelong goal to achieve righteousness according to the will of God. To please Him!

Salvation is a gift of grace from God, we can not earn it. It is the ultimate gift of LOVE! The "works" Paul is speaking of are the work of the "mosaic law". He is not talking about inward expression, our heart. He is talking about outward expressions of obedience (through mosaic law), which have been distorted throughout the centuries by man. These are approximately 613 Mosaic laws, although this number is widely contested. The mosaic law been expounded upon throughout the centuries by man. Distorted and have become 'man's' laws. God talks to our hears, our obedience to Him must come from our hearts, a deep love, commitment to Him, not from a book of man made rules.

[tgandy]

Jesus requires obedience of his disciples.  What we hear we put into practice.  The parables, teachings of our Lord were given so we would think and act not file away for future reference.  Paul tells us we have become Christians through God's grace, not anything on our part. But out of gratitude for this gift we will seek to help and serve others the way our Lord taught us.  Our salvation will result in acts of service.

[DebLam3teach]

Jesus requires obedience from His disciples.  If we love Him we will keep His commandments (John 14:15). Obedience doesn't save us, but it is a result of how God is at work in our lives.  Salvation is God's free gift to us; our obedience is our gift of gratitude to God because what He has done for us.  I also do believe that some Christians will be "saved as through fire," meaning that they were not very obedient disciples of Jesus (1 Corinthians 3:12-15).  They got distracted or went their own way.  I think all Christians have rebellious times when we need to repent and come back to the Lord.  During those times we are still saved, but we have let the carnal man get the upper hand in things.  However, we will eventually come back to the Lord in repentance because we truly belong to the Lord, and have been made a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

[Eager Bver]

Q4. (Matthew 7:24-27) Does Jesus require obedience of his disciples? (John 15:14). Is there a kind of true Christian who believes, but does not obey? How do you justify Jesus' requirement of obedience with Paul's teaching that salvation is a gift, not because of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-10)? 

 

yes.  To be true, one must obey Jesus' words.  He who hears his words and obey pleases Jesus.  Jesus paid the price for us, He who knew no sin, in our place, died that we might be counted worthy of eternal life.  This is a reason to love and follow him desiring to please him.

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[JoanG]

Jesus does require obedience. We need to listen to his words, understand his words and live his words on a daily basis.

 

I believe that new Christians are true Christians but they do not obey because they are too new to the word to know what is really being said by Christ. Jesus wants us to obey and live by his word. He gives us salvation as a gift. he forgives us our sins by we need to turn our lives around to be considered his followers. Living a Christ filled life is a life filled with love for our fellow man. But Paul is talking more that that. He is talking about the extras that a person might do over and above the daily Christian life. Going that extra mile for someone does not give us any more salvation than someone else. It only builds up rewards for us in heaven.

[Old Jerry]

Yes, Jesus does require us to obey him. There can’t be a true Christian who believes, but does not obey.

Jesus gave us salvation because it was a gift and we did not have to work for it all we have to do is accept it. But saying that, because we know that we have been saved we want to do what Jesus commands us to do. That is the heart of a true Christian.

[Karen11]

On 12/19/2007 at 11:03 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q4. (Matthew 7:24-27) Does Jesus require obedience of his disciples? (John 15:14). Is there a kind of true Christian who believes, but does not obey? How do you justify Jesus' requirement of obedience with Paul's teaching that salvation is a gift, not because of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-10)?

Yes he does.

To be a true Christian one must believe and obey.

Salvation is a precious gift not by anything we do or did but by what Jesus did, it requires obedience.

[Irmela]

Matthew 7:24-27

Does Jesus require obedience of His disciples? 

Yes! He sure does. Matthew 15:14 confirms.... You are My friends (friends are people who share what you will do, what will happen etc, with). Confirmed by John 14:15... I will call you my friends because I have made known to you everything I have heard from my Father. ... In verse 14b ... IF YOU KEEP ON DOING THE THINGS WHICH I COMMAND YOU. 

Is there a kind of true Christian who believes, but does not obey? 

A true Christian who believes will definitely obey. Should it happen that he fails to do so, he will be miserable and unhappy until he examines himself and  brings to light the sin and confesses it and then continues walking in obedience. 

How do you justify Jesus' requirements of obedience with Paul's teaching that salvation is a gift, not of works, lest anyone should boast? (Eph 2:8-10)

Obediece will not get you saved, it is still by grace that we are saved. It is because of the grace that we desire to be obedient. Thus the works part is not there for the boasting, but for obedience upon which follows a deep piece and satisfaction

[Lisa Wolf]

Q4. (Matthew 7:24-27) Does Jesus require obedience of his disciples? (John 15:14). Is there a kind of true Christian who believes, but does not obey? How do you justify Jesus' requirement of obedience with Paul's teaching that salvation is a gift, not because of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-10)?

John 15:14 states clearly,  "You are my friends if you do what I command."  Jesus showed us by His life example exactly what that meant--He only did what the Father directed Him.  Matthew 7:19-24 lets us see clearly what Jesus asks of us, "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock."  James reminds us that we need to look intently into Jesus, not just express faith and walk away.  Rather, "whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do." (James 1:25)  The wonderful thing about the Ephesians 2:8-10 words is that GOD prepared in advance the good works He wants us to do.  His Presence, His Spirit already walked before us in preparation.  How much more will He give us His Holy Spirit to enable us to complete the work He commands?