Q2. Relationship of Sin to the Law

[Pastor Ralph]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

[reily]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

yes there can be sin without the law, Sin in itself is transgression against another person, group of nation.

You fail to consider the consequences of your actions therefor the law mad you aware of your sin

God created world was created and it was Good not bad. The universal law of god is god but becuase of our transgression and that of adam we choose bad and life bad uness christ changes us to realize our falures.

[DocI333]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) 1. What is Paul saying in these verses? 2. Can there be sin without law? 3. In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

1. In verse 13, he acknowledges that sin existed along with its resultant death, even before the law was given through Moses.

(5:20) "The law was added so that the trespass might increase."

2. Yes. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it still make a noise?

3. The law was given to Moses to make man's sin more visible and stand out in stark relief from righteousness.[/size]

[Delivered]

Q2. Romans(5:13-20)

V13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

V20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

What is Paul saying in these verses?

Until the time of Moses when the law was given, God was not keeping score, or charging it to our account,

the reason given, there was no law for man to obey or disobey, as there was for Adam.

Because of mans sin there was still death.

However, when the Messiah came, also came justification, a free gift of righteousness, life for mankind.

This gift from God is received by our "faith," seen in our outward acts of righteousness.

What Christ did for us supercedes the awful state mankind was in, full of SIN, separated from God.

Can there be sin without law?

Yes, death came with the first Adam who sinned.

In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

The law made it very clear what sin is, it is separation from the fellowship mankind had with God Almighty.

God wrote the law with His finger, a personal, intimate, detail of how God wants mankind to live.

With the law came blessings if one obeys God's guidance, seen in His law. If one does not care about

pleasing God by following His lead, then there comes curses, or discipline.

[sadiejee]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

I feel that the law brings sin to the surface. One doesn't know how "sinful" one is if they don't know right from wrong. For example, if I am married and have a habit of fantasizing about a good looking man and spend almost all of my time thinking and dreaming of this man, wishing my husband was more like him, thinking of how much I'd love to be with him etc. and then one day I'm at church and the pastor has a sermon on this topic and all of a sudden it becomes clear to me how wrong this is, that I am committing adultery even though I am not physically doing anything ... from that day forward I will no longer do it with a clear conscience, from that day forward I will know that I am sinning, whereas before I had no idea. If I continue to fantasize, the sin increases and the further I distance myself from God and I will condinue to walk in darkness.

[Eudora]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses?

Paul is saying that sin interrupted our relationship with God in everything and everyone, but the extent of the interruption was not clear until God spelled it out in detail; in the law. So death, this huge immeasurable space that was separating us from God, was still in effect from the time of Adam to when God revealed His law to Moses. Even those who didn't sin exactly as Adam did by disobeying a specific command of God still had to experience this huge immeasurable space, which now includes death. Adam, the one who got us into this, also points ahead to the One who will get us out of it. The law shows us what sin is because with out sin, (with out the law to show us what sin is) we wouldn

[pickledilly]

I don't usually cite commentaries, but Matthew Henry makes an excellent explanation that helps me with this issue. Sin existed before the creation of the world, as demonstrated in the angels who rebelled with Lucifer and were cast from heaven. But sin had no point of entry into the perfect "it was good" world God created until Adam chose to rebel against the LORD's direct command to him. Through his disobedience, sin immediately entered the world as an enemy to pollute, corrupt, steal, kill, and lie. It was logically followed by guilt before God that was Adam's legacy to the rest of humanity. So sin and its consequence of death were definitely in the world prior to the official Law of God being given. Galatians 3:19 says that "it was added because of transgressions". (emphasis added)

Romans 2:15 shows that the Law has a "work", a specific reason and purpose. According to Romans 3:20, it is to give knowledge, an awareness, an understanding of sin. Greater knowledge of something will simply make you more aware of what has been there all along, making it seem to "increase". Modern medicine in the Western world relies heavily on new diagnostic knowledge, which makes the numbers of incidence of disease go up on many conditions - some being conditions that have existed all along, but gone undetected because of previously nonexistent diagnostic abilities. The Law of God was something like a diagnostic tool for humanity's spiritual condition.

And then Galatians 3:24 says "the law was our guardian until Christ came…" The law was also a guide for how to please God while living in this world controlled by sin and death. It was to expose our sin with the desired intent that we would respond with faith in the deliverance to come, which Yahweh counted as righteous. This was how He dealt with humanity until the promise of salvation by faith in the Deliverer Christ Jesus was realized.

[smurf1948]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Sin existed all the time. even Satan sinned when he rebelled against God. Then Adam when he went against God's commands.

The Law was given so that people could have a guide line to follow and see what was right and wrong. It made people more aware of sin. There for the trespass increases because you are now more aware that you are sinning when you have the law.

[charisbarak]

He is saying that without the law (a light) sin cannot be seen very easily. Once you have the law it acts as a light to expose the sin.

Sure, there is sin without law--it's called lawlessness.

The sin has been exposed. You can then see it more clearly. The law was the first step--when Jesus came, He went even further--beyond the law--or reading between the lines of the law. Take adultry--Jesus says if a man lusts after a woman, that's adultry! The sin begins in the attitudes of our hearts. The law doesn't expose that much, but Jesus exposed it!!

[nancychua]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying that sin blocked our relationship with God but it was not clearly understood until the law was given. Death separate us from God since the time of Adam until God had revealed His law to Moses to made known of our sin be more visible.

Yes, there was sin before the law was given and death came when Adam sinned.

Sin and its consequence of death were definitely in the world prior to the Law of God given.

The law was against sin but sin will never be forgiveness until we received salvation thru the grace of God. Jesus Christ overcame our death.

[hanks]

Paul shows us that Adam

[JustJeff]

Even without the Law to specify sin, sin is present. The Law identifies sin and sin increases by the nature of man to transgress the Law.

[masika]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is showing that keeping the law does not bring salvation. Here he adds that breaking the law is not what brings death.

The law points out our sin and places the responsibility for it squarely on our shoulders. But the law offers no remedy. When we are convicted of sin, we must turn to Jesus Christ for healing.

[Revjarden1]

Without law there is chaos, and chaos brings about disorder. The Bible says in 1st Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order. So yes there can be sin without the law.

[GodExcels]

5:13 seems to say that sin was already in the world before the law but not recognized fully without the law. 5:20 appears to state that having the law allowed sins to be magnified/apparent and in contrast to the law.

The greater the light of awareness the more apparent and clearer things become. The law was giving to give light to our sin and make God's grace more apparent once we receive God as our Lord and Savior. The more we judged ourselves according to the law the more we understood ourselves to be sinful and we could believe how much more sin we have within ourselves than we considered before the law. Law reveals sin.

In sin and law there is no hope, but for the grace of God there is freedom from sin and a hope in God's desire to call us to live as we should in light of God's grace and love.

[Triciahh]

Before the law was given, mankind was in rebellion against God but individual acts were not counted as deliberate sins. Sin existed but we were unable to see it as sin. The law pointed out how these acts failed to meet God

[Elwood C O'Dell]

Yes there is sin without the law.

[nes]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Sin was already in the world before God gave the mosaic law. but it was not imputed, because there was no explicit list of command, there where no strict accounting of their specific point of violation.

when the law is present that causes man's sin to increase. thus it made men more aware of their own sinfulness and inability to keep God's perfect standard. it is also serve as a tutor to drive them back to God.

[iam4-1god]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Since Jesus' death on the cross, the law became a tool by which sins are revealed in us. In other words, to convict us of sin. The tresspass increase comes when we realize that we are sinners and we need Jesus to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

[Linda Stanley]

Keeping the law does not bring salvation.Breaking the law is not what brings death.Death is the result of Adam's sin,and of the sins we all commit,even if they don't resemble Adam's.

Yes ther can be sin without the law;the law only exposes the sin.

Jesus lifts us above the law,because of his death on the cross.(Where sin increased,grace increased all the more.)As christians we are saved(salvation) by Jesus death on the cross.This is all through God's power,not our own.Through God's love for us He has given us new life through Jesus Christ His Son.

[servant for Christ]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying that without the law there would be no grace or forgiveness for sins. With Adam, sin was death, through Jesus Christ our sins are forgiven and we are made right with God. All our sins. Yes, there can be sin without the law. There always has been. The law was given so we could see our sin, but people sinned more and more and God's grace became abundant. Sin goes against everything God stand's for.

[studybug52]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Yes there could be sin without the law. Adam and Eve sinned, Cain killed able and ever since

then people were able to sin against God by being disobedient and against each other by eigher

doing something to upset another person something un loveing or stealing or lyine or harming

someone physically or their reputation.

Trespass increased in the sense that once the law was given to Moses, People knew what God

considered sin and which sins were the worst by their punishment the law put on the offense

so once there was a law to break then the person breaking Gods' law and those who were aware

of the sin to them the offense or sin was magnified . became more aware of even if no other

people knew a person sinned the sinner him/her self knew they had broken the law of God and

their conscience would be bothered . There was a line made clear this is sin and because a person

knew when they crossed the line, it was more evident that we were sinners and sinned .

It became more clear that mankind were sinners and needed help, saveing.

[paulcrf]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Romans 5:13, 20: The devil was already in the world before man was created. Hence sin was already in the world. There was sin even without law but there was no record of it because there is no basis, which is the law. When the law was established by God, violations was now noted because there is a point of reference.

[RickJW]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying that, although sin existed, and was sin, it was not a case of man deliberately going against an established law, as, until Moses brought the Ten Commandments down from Sinai, there was no established law. Adam and Eve did, however, disobey a direct command from God when they ate of the tree on knowledge of good and evil. According to the lesson text, the law was given to Moses so that sin would be more visable, and stand out from righteousness. Trespass increases, with the law in place, because people then know that it is wrong to do that which is forbidden by the law.

Paul is saying, then, that sin certainly existed, even though not codified in the law, but it was not counted as a deliberate trangression.

[Sarah43]

(Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying in these verses that Christ, the second Adam, frees humans of the sinful state brought about by Adam, chronicled in Genesis.

Sin exists when people trespass against God's law, which exists because God does. Mosaic law just made sin more recognisable, as humans need the law spelled out where they can see it.

Unfortunately, having the law in front of us did little to stop people from sinning. Knowing that something is sin, and doing it anyway, increases trespass.