Q2. Relationship of Sin to the Law

[jason]

Paul is saying in these verse's that there was sin, but it was not so deliberate as they had nothing much to go by, they had no direct law to break. Yes there can be sin without law but it would make it extremly hard to control it, to stay within the boundrys, of knowing whats right and wrong the only way to establish right from wrong would be based on each persons feelings which could difer some what. When the law is given people have a guide line to go by, if they then go and break the law they are directly going against God's will making the trespass worse.

[Jen]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

To me Paul is saying that until the law was given men sinned using ignorance as an excuse even though they knew wrong. After the law there is no excuse however some still continue on knowing "it" is wrong and doing wrong anyway because they think that nothing will happen. J Vernon McGee says "Even the very thoughtlife of man is alienated from God".

In verse 20 he is saying that God gave us the chance to be forgiven however we still have the same sin nature in us and will until we go home to be with Him. However many make a deliberate choice to reject even when they "know "the truth" and theirs is the greater trespass.

God Bless!!

Jen

Numbers 6:

[Lisa Rupert]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses?

Paul is saying that sin existed before the law was brought about. And that the law was added so that sin maybe seen or known as what it is sin, a transgression against the law.

Can there be sin without law?

Yes sin did exist without the law.

In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

The trespass increased the knowledge that sin was present. Before it wasn't preceived as sin or that one was living in a sinful nature.

[house]

Mosaic law just made sin more recognisable, as humans need the law spelled out where they can see it.

Unfortunately, having the law in front of us did little to stop people from sinning. Knowing that something is sin, and doing it anyway, increases trespass.

Sarah - very well said!

(but I'll post my answers anyway)

Can there be sin without law?

If you only look at sin as violation of a law or "missing the mark" how can you break rules that don't exist? How can you "miss" a target before one is put up?

But if you also look at sin as rebellion against God, Paul's words in verse 13 make sense ("for before the law was given, sin was in the world").

What if you are a teenager and your parents didn't say "be home by midnight." Can you break a curfew when you don't have one? (you bet, by staying out 'til dawn!) You know in your heart it's the wrong thing to do, and you do it anyway.

God has also written the law on man's heart (Romans 2:14-15). Although there was no specified law against murder, when Cain killed his brother he knew he had done wrong.

The law defines boundaries of right and wrong and our violations of God's law are a measure of our rebellion against God. And the more laws there are, the more "trespasses" there can be.

Adam and Eve had only one rule to obey and broke it. After God gave the law, besides what was written on our hearts there were additional ways to trespass (the third commandment and keeping the Sabbath to name two).

[joan22]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

PAUL IS NOT TEACHING THAT EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED.ADAM SIN AFFECTS ALL,WHO ARE PART OF THE HUMAN RACE CHRIST RIGHTEOUSNESS IS FOR ALL WHO ARE A PART OF HIS SPIRITUAL RACE. YES THERE CAN BE SIN WITHOUT LAW. ''TRESPASS INCREASE'' WHEN THE LAW IS PRESENT. SIMPLE SAID THAT THE LAW COMES IN TO PLACE TO ALLOWMEN SINS TO BE SEEN AND TO STAND OUT IN FROM RIGHTEOUSNESS.

[Patsy Laycoax]

Yes, there is sin without the law but people aren't aware or conscious of the sin. For instance on an interstate highway that hasn't any speed laws, you could be going faster than you should but your not aware of it because there aren't any speed signs. The trespass does increase when the law is present because now you have been made aware of the law and you willfully disobey.

[haar]

Paul is saying that sin existed even before the law was given through Moses. The introduction of the law later made sin to be seen more clerly- its ugly nature and thus realising the abundance of grace through faith that wipes it away.

There can be sin without the law because sin existed even before the law was ginen. This was as the result of the fall, adam's sin.

The 'trespass increas' is a term I am still trying hard to understand. But I think what it means from the commentary just read, is that the introduction of the law did bring out the ugliness in sin to be more obvious even as it is viewed from the angle of righteousness.

[Helen Williams]

Until the law of Moses was given, sin was not imputed. Sin was present in the world from Adam to Moses, but God did not keep an account of sins before the giving of the law. This was becasue there were no law to obey or disobey.

There is sin without law. We know this because they all died. Trespass increase when the law is present becasue law magnified sin. What was inherently wrong became formally and explicity wrong once the law was revealed.

[McCollum]

Paul is saying in these verses for us to be sure sin was in the World even before the law was given, but sin is not charged to men's account where is no law to transgress. But then Law came in only to expand and increase the trespass making it more apparent and exciting opposition. But where sin increased and abounded, grace , God's unmerited favor has surpassed it and increased the more and super abounded.

[JanMary]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses?

After the first Adam fell through sin and disobedience, God instituted the Law through Moses to show us our sin, which leads to death. Jesus, the second Adam, brought grace, justification, and eternal life as God's gift to all who will receive the gift (Jesus as Lord and Savior).

Can there be sin without law?

Yes, all men were condemned through Adam's sin before the Law was given. The Law is the mirror which when we look into it, reflects our sinful nature, but all men have a conscience and know they are sinners regardless of the law. That's why there are so many false religions and cults...man's attempt to justify himself through works of the flesh to appease their "gods"..

In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

I think it means before we read the law we have a general sense of our wrongdoing and separation from a Holy God....when we read the Law, we then have very specific knowledge of what we have done.

[Elie]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Remember that when we sin we disobey God, The law was not there when Adam sinned, so canceling the law does not mean we are free from sin... (13 "For before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.)

When the law comes, you become conscious of your sin. Sometimes you cannot immediately stop during it, maybe other people are also involved, every time you miss the occasion to figure it out once for all is one more sin, and as long as you cannot get out of it,you keep feeling more and more guilty...

Sin is so dangerous! With the law not only the trespasses of the one who sins increase but also that easily causes others to sin(some are always looking forward to judging or despising those who make bigger sin than they do... )

[June]

I believe Paul is saying that there was sin but it was not recognized because there was no law against it. When the commandments were made then the sin was made to be seen. By repentance, then God's Grace was seen by the forgiveness of those sins. The more righteous, the more Grace was shown.

[turnerjb1]

When you think about what sin really is, that it is an act that separates us from God, yes there can be sin without law. The law was made for people who need checklists to keep themselves organized. I believe there are over 400 laws in Leviticus, it is almost impossible to not break one of these laws.

[Rosie1Rose]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying sin existed, but did not count as sin because there was no law. The law was given so people could see how sinful they were.

Once there is law and a definite boundary then trespass will increase because it is known to be wrong.

We all know stealing is wrong. If a child is brought up to steal and taught it right to steal, then the child will not know it is wrong to steal, even though stealing is wrong.

If subsequently that child is taught stealing is wrong, then every time the child steals, he/she will know it is wrong, thus commiting an offence. You then have the case that the trespass increases because the child is aware of his/her offence.

[Ms CJ]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

1. Paul is saying that sin began with Adam and that sin will always exit through every person born. That without Christ and the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

2. Yes, again sin started with Adam, there was no written law until Moses.

3. The trespass is increase as the sinner learns they have sinned as the law appears. If a person doesn't see a stop sign and goes on into the traffic and then gets pulled over, to this person they haven't done anything wrong and why? Because they didn't know to stop without the stop sign.

[Greta]

Yes, there was sin before the law was given to Moses. The Old Testement shows people sinning all the time. People were stealing, murdering, acusing falsly and so much more. There was an awful lot of sin going on in Sodam and Gamorrah and this was at the time of Abraham.

Most sin we can recognise, our conscience tells us that it is wrong, but there are other laws that we may not know about unless they are written down. We can drive down a road at 60 miles per hour, but once there is a restriction on that road that says we are not alowed to drive more than 30 m.p.h., we will receive a speeding ticket and have to pay a fine if we continue to drive fast.

Once we know for a fact that something is forbidden, stealing for example, and we continue stealing, then we not only open ourselves up to punishment, but we also start to feel guilty. The guilt increases every time we steal again. I think that the guilt will often eventually become worse than the punishment.

[open2itall]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

there can be sin without written law

(however there have always been un-written laws, these un-written laws are about being in the flow of Gods energy, and the moment we start to try to put these laws into writing is the moment we bring about un-healthy dogma, because the laws are about having the right attitude and are very difficult to convey in words, however the Sermon on the Mount is a greatest of guides.)

Sin increases with the Law

When we are conscious of the law that is present in our hearts, and we ignore the law, our trespass increases compared to when the mind is ignorant of the law from (for example) infirmity

edited due to embarrassment,

sometimes I'm embarrassed when I think of what I’ve written here, did I really I say that written law is un-healthy dogma.... I didn’t mean that. Written law serves a purpose, it gives something concrete to work with at ground level.

[Craig]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying in verse 13, that until God gave Moses the Law, sin was not imputed or charged to a person's account. Sin was present in the world from Adam to Moses, but God did not keep an account of sins before the giving of the Law of Moses. But humanity did sin before the Law, and the way we know this is that death reigned. They all died.

The trespass increases when the Law is present because due to the Law humanity actually knows what sin is. The Law defines sin and what alienates us from God. So to do it on purpose increases the offense. We are openly sinning in God's face.

[house]

A few more thoughts about Romans 5, verse 13:

"

[Roxanne]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

THAT SIN IS DEATH ,,EVEN BEFORE MOSES AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS..

[Mutwiwa]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? In verse 13 Paul is saying that the sin existed even before the law, and in 20 Paul is saying that law come for the sin to imputed. For without the law the sin cannot be imputed.

Can there be sin without law? Yes, through the sin of Adam of Disobedient, sin entered the world.

In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present? It becomes visible

[PCHRIS]

Thus Paul is saying that as the sin of one (Adam) led all men into condemnation, just because the law wasn't in place sin still happened. Disobedience and pride is sin. Paul knows that the law will always figure highly with the Jewish mind and says that death for Adam

[Roozita48]

Lesson 2, Q2

Sin existed before the Law and sin became more visible because of the Law. The Law made people more aware of their sinfulness and, therefore, their need for a Savior.

[emmaus]

We are all "born into sin" or have a willful rebellion in us. This has been so since Adam. The trespass increased when the law was given through Moses and we willfully choose to sin.

[Jewell]

Paul is saying that even with the law, there was still sin, however there is no accountability. Accountability comes when the law is specific, thereby increasing "trespass" or the visibility of sin and righteousness.