Q2. Relationship of Sin to the Law

[linda bass]

Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden before there was the Law.

Cain murdered his brother Abel before there was the Law.

All mankind with the exception of Noah and his family perished in the flood because of their wickedness before the Law.

Sin has existed in the world long before Moses was given the 10 commandments.

When the law was given to Moses, man's sins were made even more visible. Man's sin then began to stand out in stark relief to righteousness.

[starangel2]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

there was sin without the law of moses becase Adam and Eve sinned. The tresspass increases because now we have the commandments of Jesus and the law is present when we sin knowlingly.

[AngelOnLine]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law?

Yes, there can be sin without law.

In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

It makes the sin more visible, and shows the contrast between sin and righteousness.

[MrsG]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Yes there can be sin without law. Look at how Paul responded to this question: For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Romans 5:13 (NKJV) In the NLT version it states , Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break, in other words, sins was present before the law was given. From Adam to Moses, everyone did not sin as Adam did, but everyone died.

I believe the trespass increase when mankind experienced the knowledge of sin. when the law became present it help mankind see their sins and offenses. The law points out our sins and makes us responsible for them.

[l.a.]

I believe that Paul is saying that rules and laws give us an understanding of what is socially acceptable. If you are not really sure what is accepted and what is not, you may see the consequences as insignificant. Many may be influenced to do things they may, in there heart of hearts, know is wrong but, without consequence, cannot see a reason NOT to do it.

[nurselaino]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Rom 5:13 There was sin in the world before the Law was given; but where there is no law, no account is kept of sins.

Yes there was sin in the world before the Mosaic law was given...we can look at the murder of Abel... Sodom and Gomorrah, by the Egyptians, Canaanites, and others. They were all guilty of sin, corrupted by it, and under the dominion of it. But until the laws were known there was no way to keep accounts of sin...to measure or condemn man

Rom 5:20 The Law came, so that the full power of sin could be seen. Yet where sin was powerful, God's kindness was even more powerful.

By the laws sin would be more apparent, more violent, more extensive. The introduction of the Mosaic Law, instead of diminishing the sins of people, only increases them.

And then not only to the law of Moses, but to all divine law, the law written on the hearts of the Gentiles We see the Grace of God being offered to all. Not only does the Grace of God redeem us from death, restoring us to life...it also brings us again as Adam once had a personal relationship with our Lord, Our Father. It brings us back to what we were designed for before the fall of Adam.

[catldog]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Yes there is sin without law. Even if you weren't technically aware of your trespassing, you should have known deep down that it wasnt right. Sin increases when the law is present because now we are without exuse.

[karyann]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

In these verses Paul is saying that there was already sin without law. Yes there is sin without law because when Abel killed Cain there was no law. Sin increases when law is present because it makes a mans sin more visible and stand out.

[Ryan W]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul was saying that without the law sin cannot be transgressed. How can anyone know that they are committing a crime if there is no law in place to tell them they cannot committ such behavior without consequences. There is sin without law, but if the law was never put in place then God could not hold us accountable. The trespass increases because we receive knowledge of the law. Generally what happens is when we are told that we cannot do something then by the nature of sin that is present we automatically become drawn to doing the one thing we are told we cannot do.

Think about three a child is told he cannot have a chocalate chip cookie. If I don't tell my three year old that he cannot have cookies before dinner, if he does it I cannot hold him accountable. I cannot punish him for doing wrong if he does not know that he is doing wrong. But as soon as I tell him "No cookies until after dinner," that is when the rule is in place and any action that he does that breaks that rule can be punished. That is generally when we want to committ the wrong, when we know it is wrong.

[one little branch]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden. This was about 2,500 years before the Law was given to Moses. There was plenty of sin before the event in Mt. Sinai took place.Cain killed Abel out of jealusy. The deluge took place because of sin, the dispersion of people throughout the world after the Tower of Babel was because of rebellion, and several countries had chosen to worship false gods which is idolatry. So YES there can be sin without the law.

Rebellion and pride took over in Adam's heart when he made the choice to believe satan over God. Sin entered the human race because we were in Adam. WHen the Law was introduced it served to highlight our already devious and depraved heart. The Law gave us a standard to which we should live BUT because sin was already in our heart we resist it even more. Before I knew that stealing was wrong, I may have been stealing( being wrong but me being ignorant about it, in other words " Breaking the law is not justifiable because of my ignorance about it) but knew nothing about it. When the Law came and pointed out to me that stealing was wrong this stirred up within me my already existing rebellion and I wanted to steal even more! (THIS, BY THE WAY, IT IS AN EXAMPLE IN ORDER TO EXPLAIN THIS CONCEPT)

I believe that this is what explains the concept of "trespass increase when the law is present"

[Patricia A]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses?

Before the law, from then time of Adam, there was sin and death in the world. All have sinned and all are punished with death. This is the result of the sin of one man. (Rom. 5:12-13) This proves that mankind is one, there is no difference between people. There is also no difference between the time before the law was given, and life under the law. Before and after, all people die because of Adam

[C Riv]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

I believe Paul is saying that before God gave Moses the law to give to the people there was sin, but God did not keep count of it. People did die and were punished for their sins. once the law was entered the offense abounded, but Paul tells us when sin abounded the grace of God abounded more. Yes there can be sin without law, all know between right and wrong, the one thing that the law did was magnify sin. Man now had been given direction so that there would be no dispute.

[Rosie1Rose]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

I love the examples given both about the child and cookies and the fantasy thoughts. While there was wrong doing before the Law, it was not counted as sin because there was no Law against it.

The Law was given that we might know what sin is, that once we have turned to Jesus, we would know how to live holy lives.

Some one said that only christians can sin, because non believers have not come under the Law. I would now dispute this and say that God has written His Name in Creation and written His Law in our hearts. We all sin whether we are believers or non believers.

[Lionbait]

2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Sin entered into the world by Adam for all have sinned. Until the Law there was no measuring stick no line of discipline.

When the Law was implemented then mankind cloud see how diverse and sinful that we are and how much we need forgiveness.

[Don W]

Yes, sin has been in the world and has affected all of mankind long before Moses brought God

[Marloes]

If we do not have a lawbook, we do not know what is wrong.

We might do something wrong in other people's opinion but we do not know if it is illegal.

[poetmom]

I think most of the correct responses have been made. My one question would be how did people before Moses know that they were sinning?

I believe we say that the Holy Spirit at the time placed feelings of guilt upon their consciences, so that people were "without excuse." It's a tough concept, though. How did people know how to love God and love others? I am so thankful that we are alive during this time, in which we now have not only Jesus' clear saving work but a plentitude of Bibles and other resources to really help us understand!

[Elijah]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

What i think Paul is saying is that there is sin everywhere. Yes it can because we were born with a sin nature. The sense is that when a law is presented more people dont want to follow the law.

[Elijah]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying that there is sin through the law and without the law there is sin. It increases because when we know the law its hard to follow so that is why we couldnt follow the law.

[s8nfighter]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul is saying that sin came into the world by the trespass of one person, and he refers to that Original Sin as sin. Right or wrong, a death sentence was passed for all because of that Original Sin. (Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.)

Of course there is sin without the law. The law only defined right and wrong and set clear cut boundaries. Cain was not as good at finding the shaded areas of the law as attorneys are today when he asked God, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

I think Paul was stating that awareness of trespass increases with the law, that without the law and set boundries one might say that, "Hey! I didn't eat from the tree which is the knowlege of right and wrong, good and bad, so why am I held accountable? I didn't know." Sin increased even without the law. If it had not; Noah would have built a bigger boat.

Darrell

[lynette66]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

There is sin without law, but it isn't meaningful if there isn't an agreement in the community that the sin is a problem, like when we enact new laws. The "trespass increases" when there is a law, like when you are teaching kids what is acceptable and what is not. If they are not aware that they are supposed to clean up their rooms, you can't punish them for not doing it!

[Paul H]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

When Adam sinned, he transgressed a direct command of God namely the command in Genesis 2:17 "...of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die" When Adam ate of the tree, he transgressed God's commandment and thereafter was condemned to an eventual death (something which he had not known before). More than that though, in transgressing this command, Adam acted as a representative of the whole of humanity who came to follow him, including me, and effectively condemned all of humanity to die (something which, with a few possible exceptions in the Old Testament, has happened to every human who has ever been born since that time). However, after Adam had eaten of this tree, there were no other laws. There was sin, but no direct commands from God. Man continued to die as a result of Adam's action. Man also continued to sin (witness the state of the World immediately prior to the flood) but Paul tells us that God did not hold man to account for that sin during the period between Adam and the time at which God gave His commandments to Moses. When God gave His law to mankind through Moses then thereafter, man began to be held to account for sins committed in breach of that law because thereafter, by sinning, man was breaching a direct command given by God.

[Vaiden Rochelle]

Hi, Dr. Ralph,

In Romans 5:13 and 20 Paul is saying that there is sin without the law because sin entered into Adam and consequently the human race. God just hadn't given the law to the people until yet, so He didn't judge them guilty of death until He did give them the law. The "trespass increases" when the law is present because God gave Moses the Ten Commandments. With these Commandments, we are all aware of what to avoid doing, and we will be held accountable for breaking them unless we confess our sin and ask for forgiveness with a sincere heart.

[Commissioned]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

In these verses Paul is saying that even though sin was in the world before the law was given to Moses, sin was not charged to a person's account. But when the law was given sin was made known and was recorded against the person until he or she sought repentance. There can be no sin without law. It is the law that establishes sin. The "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present, because grace has been given to give opportunity to repent of the sin.

[Charles Sanger]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Paul was stating that sin existed before the laws were laid down to Moses. i.e. people knew that it was wrong to murder others.. i.e. when Kane slain Able. He knew it was wrong (because he lied about where his brother was) even if no one told him so. In the end of verse 13 it states that sin is not taken into account