iam4_1god Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? Bottom line-When we are baptized, we are saying that our old man is dead, and we now have new life. We no longer want to do the things we did before we accepted Christ! Jesus died so that we could have this new life! Inside is changed! We now want to be like Jesus, and that is what we move toward. Old things have passed-all things are new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross_laoshi Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? Paul is referring to the symbolic death through baptism and the identification with Christ's death in baptism. He is also referring to the death of Christ on the cross and the killing of the sinful nature there, and that through Christ's sacrificial death and our union with him, we have the means to put our own sinful nature to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissi Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? Paul is referring to a figurative death to sin. He's talking about the actual death of Christ, and us figuratively joined together/identified with Him. His death becomes our own as we are "figuratively" joined in death to him through baptism. This is definitely not theological mumbo-jumbo. If you trust the Word of God by faith and experience the reality of Christ in your life, you will definitely know it's reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia A Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I believe Paul is referring to the symbolic death of sin because of the real death of Jesus Christ who is Our Savior. When Christ died for us, it was made possible to put our sinful lives away forever. All we have to do is accept Jesus is Our Savior and our sins are put to death. What a joy and blessing and we praise and glorify God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia A Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I believe Paul is referring to the symbolic death of sin because of the real death of Jesus Christ who is Our Savior. When Christ died for us, it was made possible to put our sinful lives away forever. All we have to do is accept Jesus is Our Savior and our sins are put to death. What a joy and blessing and we praise and glorify God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeraja Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Q3. I believe the Pauls reference to 'death' here is figurative. He is speaking of our spiritual death when we are born again. We put to death our sinful self and allow the spirit to guide us to a Christ-like life, that is a new being, spiritually. This is the result of the Divine Exchange that took place at the actual death of Christ ( historical) where He redeemed us ( took away our sins ) through his death on the cross. This death becomes our own when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and saviour, and are baptised and allow the Holy Spirit to empower and build us. It is certainly not a theological mumbo-jumbo. His death on the cross is real and our redemption from sin is real. Through baptism our old self is dead and we are born again. The Holy Spirit brings about a transformation in our lifes. I have myself experienced it and I have seen so many enjoying the new spirit led life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awylie1949@yahoo.co.uk Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 The death Paul is speaking about is an actual death verified in history, the death of Jesus, the savour of the world. Gods own beloved dear Son. The sin came into the world by Adam and we have descended from Adam. Salvation has come into the world through one Man Jesus so if we know Him then we share with Him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbe Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Christ's death was a real, historic death. Ours is symbolic of dying with Christ through baptism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? When Paul teaches and refers to death from sin, it is historical in nature because through Christ death and resurrection we who believe and have in Him are dead to sin also. Paul teaches that it is our death to sin to those who are baptized into Christ death and resurrection are dead to sin because we know and realize what Christ has done for us. This is not just theological mumbo-jumbo, Christ death on the cross and resurrection which had been witnessed by many people including His disciples. His atoning work and sacrifice for our sins has been acceptable by God our Father who raised Christ from the dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonY Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? Paul is speaking of a figurative death to sin for sin does not die it just lives on in generation. It always finds a breast in which it can hide. Is it not like the demons that Christ threw out of the people of his time. When we are baptized by the fire of the Holy Spirit we develop some immunity to sin. The Holy spirit acts as a buffer for us to sin. That does not mean that we are free from sin for always the world bears in upon us and we fall victim. But as we live and mature in Christ and the Holy spirit these work with us to sanctify us so that we become-very gradually- more like Jesus until that day when,as Adam, we die and we become like Jesus after our resurrection into the Lord when Christ will cloth us in a cloak of righteousness to stand in righteousness before God our creator or when the Day of the Lord arrives in all its righteousness. Paul is referring to the our figurative death to sin when we are baptized with the Holy Spirit onto Christ. It is a reality, spiritual but real. It is so real that those who experience KNOW that something has happened. This is the secret of the early Christians. when they were baptized in the Spirit thew KNEW something had happened. They could feel it within themselves and it showed in their lives. The same can be true for us to day. We need to respond to Jesus' order " “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? http://www.joyfulheart.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=802 Paul can be very confusing to understand in this part of the Bible. It is this part that led me to taking this study course, for which I am very thankful. When you think about it, seeing this death has its beginnings at Golgotha, the death of Jesus was very real because that is what we are baptized into. But, on the other hand, our death to sin would be more of a renewing of the mind because we begin to think different. In my own history, it was the point at which I realized I could talk and listen to God (even though I didn’t have an understanding of what was going on). The death, or “whose death” is being discussed in the truest of the physical senses would be that of Jesus, while the death which takes place in us means the end to being the person we used to be. Put in another way, the spirit in us gets reprogrammed (but not brainwashed), and although the body which is controlled by that spirit can still err, the spirit itself is at work leading the body down a new road. There is no way I would call it mumbo-jumbo in any sense of the word but it is a point in the Bible where a person needs to stop and really spend some time with God to gain the message Paul is conveying. Perhaps Paul, when speaking to his audience at the time made perfectly good sense and over time the Greek language may have gone through some changes which now can be difficult to understand. Kind of like when one compares a Geneva Bible from 1599 which was a forerunner to the KJV 1611, which also, btw, used the same grammar type in that year to the way it is printed today: (also, the font used in itself could mesmorize you) 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue still in sinne, that grace may abounde? God forbid. 2 Howe shall we, that are dead to sinne, liue yet therein? 3 Knowe ye not, that all we which haue bene baptized into Iesus Christ, haue bene baptized into his death? 4 We are buried then with him by baptisme into his death, that like as Christ was raysed vp from the dead to the glorie of the Father, so we also should walke in newnesse of life. 5 For if we be planted with him to the similitude of his death, euen so shall we be to the similitude of his resurrection, 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sinne might be destroied, that henceforth we should not serue sinne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryMac Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? I admit that right now I am struggling to understand the lesson Dr. Ralph seems to be developing. I believe the answer is a historical or actual death. Christ died for our sin, and if we are united with him in his death then is our death to sin now “actual”? Whose death is he talking about? Christ’s How does this death become our own? Through our union, acceptance, with Christ and acknowledging that his death was our death to sin. To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? We should now have confidence over sin and our new, eternal, life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Adekunle Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 8/16/2008 at 1:10 AM, Pastor Ralph said: Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? He refers to the historical, actual death of Jesus. His death becomes our own through faith; we need to believe that we are connected to Him and that when He died, the price of the spiritual consequence of our Adamic nature was paid. This is reality and accepting it even though we weren't present when He died, or see Him resurrect is an act of faith - a prerequisite for pleasing God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lottie Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 Paul is referring to Christ's own death on the cross. It becomes our own when we come to believe in Him and are baptized and united with Him in His death. When we become united with Him then we have the power to overcome sin and live for Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godswriter Posted December 1, 2020 Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? Paul is referring to a historical actual death that would change the world forever this death was none other than the death of Son of God, Jesus Christ. It becomes our own when we choose to recognize that we need a Savior and He is the only one who can save us. When we choose to come to faith in Christ is when it becomes our own. It has a lot of basis in reality. There is an empty tomb to this day that our Lord laid in and was raised from the dead from. The religious rulers to this day refuse to believe that Jesus is alive and was raised from the dead and so they bribed the soldiers to spread a rumor about the disciples taking the body somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyF Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 Q3. (Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Whose death is he talking about? How does this death become our own? To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? These questions are deep and worth the challenge. It’s like being in 7th grade biology and needing to dissect the frog!!! To understand these beginning verses in Rom. 6, I keep coming back to what was communicated in Rom. 5. Whose headship I’m under, who’s acting as my representative has everything to do with my identity and what is true about my standing. It’s all about Christ and that I can be identified with Him - His actions, His credentials, His resources. It seems that Paul asks a question, in light of EVERYTHING he’s stated in the previous chapter, should we continue in sin and the answer is of course not, we died to sin (6:1-2) which in my mind is the same idea or conclusion in 6:6. He uses the verses in between to tell us how and why this is so. Jesus Christ really died, was buried and raised for our justification over 2000 years ago. So powerful are these spiritual concepts of “identification”, “being united, joined or connected to Christ” such that what He did and accomplished are accounted to me. It is Christ who died actually and historically, but by faith in Him the realities of the cross are considered mine. As my Representative His atonement for sin…it’s penalty and dominating power over the sinner are considered sufficient and placed in my ledger. It matters greatly because the reality of this motivates, empowers, and works in me an ever increasing sanctified life, far from perfect, but set free from the bondage of sin to serve a new Master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irmela Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 Romans 6:1-7) Is Paul referring to a figurative "death" to sin, or to a kind of historical, actual death? Once we have 'put on Christ' as it were, it is no longer our old nature that is alive, it is Christ that is alive in us. We are 'dead' to sin. It's power over us is broken. From that we take it to be, by faith, a figurative death. Whose death is he talking about? We who have been baptized into Christ Jesus, have been baptized into His death. So if this statement is true of me/you it is us whose death in Christ's death, he is talking about. How does this death become our own? If we are in Christ. To what degree is this just theological mumbo-jumbo or does it have some basis in reality? No mumbo-jumbo. It makes sense. We take on Christ's lifestyle and then look in the mirror and who is reflected. Is it the way we used to be? The old, by faith, is dead and the new is alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krissi Posted August 27, 2023 Report Share Posted August 27, 2023 Paul could not be talking about our historical death because, well, here we are. And he could not be talking about the end of sin because we sin every moment of every day, never rising to the level of Christ-likeness. So his phrases must be figurative or metaphorical, not literal. Christ died to take away our sin, but there's a yet-but-not-yetness to his death, that the payment for our sins has been paid even though we continue to sin. As we become more like Him, by the agency of the Spirit, His death becomes our death. The goal is to die to self which means to not be ourselves anymore, but to be Him. Thus, we must die or decrease as He lives or increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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